almightytodd #1 Posted June 12, 2010 The article is here Lists like this are always subject to debate. This one puts "Pong" in the number 3 spot, "Super Mario Bros." is number 2, with the most influential video game of all time going to "Pac Man". One surprise to me is that "Wolfenstein 3D" made the list but "Doom" did not. I'm guessing there are a lot of people like me who only discovered "Wolfenstein" by going backwards, after playing "Doom" and hearing that it had an ancestor. I'm also a bit disappointed that no vector-graphics based game made the list. It's almost as if the author is making the judgment that since vector graphic displays came and went and can no longer be found anywhere, their contribution to the genre is not substantial. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mbd30 #2 Posted June 12, 2010 The article is here Lists like this are always subject to debate. This one puts "Pong" in the number 3 spot, "Super Mario Bros." is number 2, with the most influential video game of all time going to "Pac Man". One surprise to me is that "Wolfenstein 3D" made the list but "Doom" did not. I'm guessing there are a lot of people like me who only discovered "Wolfenstein" by going backwards, after playing "Doom" and hearing that it had an ancestor. I'm also a bit disappointed that no vector-graphics based game made the list. It's almost as if the author is making the judgment that since vector graphic displays came and went and can no longer be found anywhere, their contribution to the genre is not substantial. Without looking at the list, I'm gonna say these: Super Mario Bros Street Fighter 2 Doom Pac-Man Pole Position Space Invaders Xevious Ultima, Wizardry or whatever Defender Mario 64 / Tomb Raider Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
carmel_andrews #3 Posted June 13, 2010 (edited) Well at least they got one game right....Pong They missed off 2 though, Star Raiders and Elite Edited June 13, 2010 by carmel_andrews Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
high voltage #4 Posted June 13, 2010 What, a Rhythm game and a stupid American sports game, but no Space Invaders? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Austin #5 Posted June 13, 2010 (edited) Guitar Freaks is one of the most influential? Erm.. Sure, five or six years later American developers wanted to rip that idea and make something similar for the States, and yes, the concept was a runaway hit here.. but I would think Beatmania or Dance Dance Revolution would be on that list instead. Beatmania, at least, was the first of Konami's Bemani series, Guitar Freaks was a little bit later down the line.. Regardless of the "instrument", be it keys + a turntable, drums, guitars, foot pads or a keyboard, it's all roughly the same thing with different means of control, and Beatmania helped the most in solidifying that concept and craze in Japan. Hell, I think Guitar Freaks was a blip on the radar compared to the Beatmania series.. Gotta love "Top Ten" lists, heh. Ah well, can't complain too much.. Gotta take it with a grain of salt. Edited June 13, 2010 by Austin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kool kitty89 #6 Posted June 13, 2010 (edited) I don't agree with many choices on that list on any level... However, with such a list in general, it's really a bit vague unless you explicitly exclude certain aspects of judging merit. For example, if you feel a certain game is deserving, you must consider the preceding games that contributed to its existence or to building that genre in general. Take Super Mario Bros. a true platform adventure game, but one of the most, if not the most significant preceding games would have to be Pitfall, and especially Pitfall II. (the former a rather basic, arcade style horizontal platform game, but the later expanding into a true platform adventure game with a huge world to explore) I'd be rather surprised if Shigeru Miyamoto hadn't been inspired by those games. (among others) For Wolf3D, there's a variety of first person perspective maze based games that could be considered spiritual predecessors, but there were genuine 3D/pseudo 3D (not page flipped, but actual realtime rendering, namely raycasting) FPS games in the conventional sense: Midi Maze is especially notable with networked multiplayer capabilities, though there are others like Corporation on the Amiga/ST/DOS/MD. Then there's the direct predecessor to Wolf3D, Catacomb3D, without which one could argue that Wolf3D (and by extension, Doom) wouldn't have existed. In terms of pure proliferation of a genre and view in the general public, Doom would be far more notable than any previous FPS game, but that's only one specific area of influence on the grand scale. For that reason, I'd honestly have a hard time picking only 10, and if I was forced to in such an open-ended manner, I'd have to pick the earliest examples which were integral to forming a genre or the industry in general. Computer space is notable as the first commercial coin-up video game (or first commercially released video game of any sort) as well as the first implementation of digital technology used to output and manipulate a video signal for entertainment purposes after Baer's work with the brown box and subsequent Odyssey. (I believe) Pong was the first commercially successful coin-op video game (depending on definition of "success"), and the Odyssey was the first (and first successful) home video game console ever released. And if you're going with the true sense of the term "video game" and not the subsequent pop-culture generalization (to refer to virtually any electronic/computer game), you'd have to exclude any vector based displays and LED based hand-held games. (I think LCD based systems would qualify as a raster display, and thus video games too) Also, I'd argue space invaders was more influential than Pac Man given it was a defining example of top down space shooters, and contributed to pretty much every related genre to some extent. (to the various clones and inspired games to more complex scrolling shooters or "shmups") Edited June 13, 2010 by kool kitty89 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickNixonArisen #7 Posted June 13, 2010 Good point - which genre is more common today, 2d top-down SHMUP or static-screen maze game? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The_Laird #8 Posted June 13, 2010 I thought the list was pretty good apart from the lack of Space Invaders and the bizarre inclusion of Tecmo Superbowl. I think there is a good argument for Tetris being there too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emehr #9 Posted June 13, 2010 I hate hate hate articles that are more than two or three pages. At least put three or four games per page to alleviate the appearance of looking like a complete ad-whore. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BassGuitari #10 Posted June 13, 2010 I love Tecmo Super Bowl...but I'm not sure it belongs on this list. I can't really say for sure if just having licenses from the league and the players' association counts as being "influential;" sports games were headed down that road at the time anyway. Someone would have done it regardless. TSB just did it first. Tecmo Super Bowl is influential to a degree, in that it's a great game and still has a cult following who create mods/hacks with updated rosters and stuff...but it's not one of THE most influential. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kool kitty89 #11 Posted June 14, 2010 (edited) Good point - which genre is more common today, 2d top-down SHMUP or static-screen maze game? Again, if I had to go with most historically important games in terms of influence on major genres (wither current or at least very popular for a long period and still existent to some degree) I'd have to go with the earliest notable examples, including less/unsuccessful ones that were integral to subsequent games of the genre. For actual scrolling "shmup" type games, Defender, Vanguard, and Scramble would be significant. Again, pitfall would be a significant listing for the platform genre. (simple both sharing many elements integral to 2D platform adventures) Another significant type would be 1st person perspective space shooters, and early example being Starship on the VCS (a 1977 launch title at that), not sure what ealier examples there are. Starship has elements of both a 1st person space shooter and rail shooter, so contributing to multiple genres. (of course there are non-space themed rail shooters too, and several more advanced 1st person space shooters on the VCS, like Star Voyager and Star Raiders or StarMaster) Actually, the Intellivision and VCS ports of Zaxxon actually fit into the more typical pseudo 3D railshooter genre due to the departure from the actual Zaxxon arcade gameplay. (and earlier than Planet of Zoom iirc) Then you've got Rescue on Fractalus. (and Koronis Rift would be another notable one for the vehicle genre) Elite would obviously be significant too, a massive, complex space sim/shooter/trading game with 3D modling and hidden line removal (not just simple wire frames), and actual filled polygons in some versions. (hell, it even made it to the NES, maybe even the first true 3D game on a console) You have battlezone contributing to vehicle combat games (the 2D console ports, if you have to omit vector displays -note, I mean vector graphics, not wireframe in particular), several early racing games (I'm sure one could analyze them and find one out of the early ones that really sticks as a contribution to later racing games -though realistic racing games are more tied to real life counterparts and technical capabilities more than preceding games, unlike arcade style racers -poll position being significant- futuristic/scifi/fantasy racers, or kart racers, of course) Then you've got the adventure genre and that is a bit of a culmination of several very different genres: early action adventure games like Adventure on the VCS, text based ones like Infocom's stuff, and early RPGs, like Ultima, 3D/first person POV dungeon games, like The Eidolon and a few other maze/dungeon games. (there's a very notable one on the CoCo iirc) Those have both convergent and divergent elements, sharing and combining elements and spawning new genres. (you've got text evolving into graphic adventures -eventually dominated by the point and click interface, then a variety of RPG types, 2D and 3D action/adventure/exploration games, and some of the adventure aspects crossing over into more pure action titles, like platformers) I don't even include Zelda in there as that's one of those later examples emerging from the preceding games. (though obviously significant in its own right, as is King's Quest -but the earliest example there would be Mystery House in 1980) The pseudo-3D dungeon/maze games would certainly contribute to the FPS genre as well. Edited June 14, 2010 by kool kitty89 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StoneAgeGamer #12 Posted June 14, 2010 (edited) IMO this list is not as bad as it originally appears. First keep in mind its only 10, not 50. So its really hard to get everything in there. However IMO there's one thing that influences the most cross cultures and that's the all mighty dollar. All these games made the companies who developed them very rich. Yes Pitfall probably influenced Mario. However Super Mario was huge and because of this it influenced hundreds (maybe thousands) of similar games. Because of Mario's ability to resurrect the video game industry and sell millions of NES systems it got other developers attention. If you go down the list you can say this about basically every game. The only one that you may be able to argue is Wolfenstein 3D. Although it was a popular game, DOOM IMO was the game that brought FPS to the for front. Guitar Freaks opened the flood gates for the Dance Dance Revolutions, Guitar Heros, Rock Bands, and ultimately you can argue possibly the Wii itself. Most of us are classic gamers and may not consider these video games in the typical sense, but they are. If we take money out the equation then yes this list is bad. However money does influence. That's just my take. Usually I totally disagree with these lists and I wish it was opened to more than just 10 because then it would be a bit easier to get them all in. Edited June 14, 2010 by StoneAgeGamer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickNixonArisen #13 Posted June 14, 2010 There's always the question of influence vs. originality. Doom and wolf3d form the best example - wolf was first, but doom was more influential. Then, after I typed that, I scrolled up accidentally and noticed that someone had just made that point. So I second that point. Kinda like all those inventors that had the telephone, lightbulb, even internal combustion engine, and just slept on it too long and someone else got there first and got famous. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rev. Rob #14 Posted June 14, 2010 (edited) Without looking, here's my guess (no particular order): Donkey Kong Galaga or Space Invaders Pong Super Mario Bros. Doom Guitar Hero Wii Sports Madden NFL Football Super Mario 64 Tetris Edit: That article is total fail. I get that Ms. Pacman was and still is popular, and that it's awesome, but what did it really influence up until today? Nada. At least with Donkey Kong there are still platformers! Same goes for Metal Gear. What exactly did it influence other than Metal Gear sequels? Ridiculous. Also, any list without Tetris is just bad thinking. That defined handheld and puzzle gaming. Edited June 14, 2010 by Rev. Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kool kitty89 #15 Posted June 14, 2010 There's always the question of influence vs. originality. Doom and wolf3d form the best example - wolf was first, but doom was more influential. Then, after I typed that, I scrolled up accidentally and noticed that someone had just made that point. So I second that point. Kinda like all those inventors that had the telephone, lightbulb, even internal combustion engine, and just slept on it too long and someone else got there first and got famous. Wolf was first of what? The first successful FPS by id, or the first successful FPS to depict an actual person armed primarily with weapons of a realistic nature used against other depictions of people? There were FPSs prior to that, and ones depicting a human/humanoid character armed with a gun, though not necessarily shooting humans (Doom is demons/Zombies anyway). Midi Maze wouldn't fit, but Corporation/Cyber Cop would. (1990 on Amiga and ST) The defining feature of Midi Maze was that it supported local network play among several players (via midi ports) and was available on a fairly common, affordable consumer platform. (some earlier examples of such networked games were with mainframes) One big thing about Wolf3D and Doom was that they were shareware, significantly contributing to their spread. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4Ks #16 Posted June 14, 2010 (edited) This is one of the most stereotypical lists ever. Tecmo Super Bowl didn't create the whole thing about liscenced players and teams, it just furthered the trend. Alone in the Dark I can agree with. That pretty much kick-started the whole survival-horror genre. There were popular one-on-one fighters long before Street Fighter II. Metal Gear Solid didn't start anything at all, except obviously the MGS series. Guitar Freaks? What happened to Dance Dance Revolution? Wolfenstein 3D is not the father of the FPS genre. There are plenty of games like that on 2600. In the same vien as Wolfenstein, any monkey at the zoo could tell you that GTA3 didn't start the sandbox genre either. Pong is a good choice. After all, it started the video game craze. The only thing new Super Mario Bros. did was allow you to jump higher. Pac-Man is a great game and all, but what did it influence besides a bunch of uninspired knock-offs? Edited June 14, 2010 by 4Ks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickNixonArisen #17 Posted June 14, 2010 Wolf was first of what? The first successful FPS by id, or the first successful FPS to depict an actual person armed primarily with weapons of a realistic nature used against other depictions of people? There were FPSs prior to that, and ones depicting a human/humanoid character armed with a gun, though not necessarily shooting humans (Doom is demons/Zombies anyway). Midi Maze wouldn't fit, but Corporation/Cyber Cop would. (1990 on Amiga and ST) The defining feature of Midi Maze was that it supported local network play among several players (via midi ports) and was available on a fairly common, affordable consumer platform. (some earlier examples of such networked games were with mainframes) One big thing about Wolf3D and Doom was that they were shareware, significantly contributing to their spread. Ah. Alright, then, just sub in Cyber Cop for Wolf3d, and call it good. thnx. Also there's that one on the Genesis, zero tolerance. Maybe the first non-computer FPS? I would disagree with there being any *true* FPS's on the 2600. Are you talking about 3d-dungeoncrawls? Wizard of Wor, like? Or more like the 2600 zaxxon version? Those are more of rail shooters. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4Ks #18 Posted June 14, 2010 I would disagree with there being any *true* FPS's on the 2600. Are you talking about 3d-dungeoncrawls? Wizard of Wor, like? Or more like the 2600 zaxxon version? Those are more of rail shooters. If you're going to be very limiting, there aren't any *real* FPS games on 2600. But games like Escape from the Mindmaster and Tunnel Runner laid down the concept long before Wolfenstien 3D. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kool kitty89 #19 Posted June 15, 2010 Ah. Alright, then, just sub in Cyber Cop for Wolf3d, and call it good. thnx. Also there's that one on the Genesis, zero tolerance. Maybe the first non-computer FPS? I would disagree with there being any *true* FPS's on the 2600. Are you talking about 3d-dungeoncrawls? Wizard of Wor, like? Or more like the 2600 zaxxon version? Those are more of rail shooters. Zero Tolerance came out after Doom (1994), and there are others on the Genesis, like Battle Frenzy (much more impressive looking than ZT and from about the same time), and Tectoy's Duke Nukem 3D game (1998), CyberCop/Corporation was ported to the genesis too. (Battle Frenzy actually supports split screen multiplayer, ZT supported 2 player networking via controller port 2) There are other examples of actual FPS (not first person maze games or dungeon crawlers) too, there are FPS sections in the 1993 Jurassic Park game for SNES (again, after Wolf3D, and possibly Doom), and an FPS section in Beverly Hills Cop for the Amiga (1990), so that would be significant. (plus Midi Maze was ported to several other platforms including SNES and Game Boy as Faceball 2000) For the 2600, I don't think there are any FPS as such, and I'm not even sure about proper dungeon crawlers (opposed tot he A8/5200 or other home computers of the time), and in addition to that, the games using that perspective game out rather late, like Tunnel Runner. (with several notable predecessors on computers) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickNixonArisen #20 Posted June 15, 2010 Maybe the first non-computer FPS? Zero Tolerance came out after Doom (1994), and there are others on the Genesis, like Battle Frenzy (much more impressive looking than ZT and from about the same time), and Tectoy's Duke Nukem 3D game (1998), CyberCop/Corporation was ported to the genesis too. (Battle Frenzy actually supports split screen multiplayer, ZT supported 2 player networking via controller port 2) So battle frenzy beat ZT to the GEN? I see. I was mostly trying to figure out the first FPS to hit a home console. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kool kitty89 #21 Posted June 16, 2010 So battle frenzy beat ZT to the GEN? I see. I was mostly trying to figure out the first FPS to hit a home console. I think Zero Tolerance came out slightly earlier, but I'm not sure on the exact dates (I seem to recall some regions got Battle Frenzy in '95). I think Battle Frenzy is the first to have non-networked multiplayer support. (possibly in general, not just on consoles -not aware of any PC FPSs prior to that that had split-screen multiplayer support) Anyway, CyberCop/Corporation came out earlier on the Genesis (1992), so probably after Wolf3D on the PC. (but before any home console ports) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gregory DG #22 Posted June 16, 2010 Tetris is the #1 game of all time. Period. If that game is not even on the list, then it's an epic fail. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mbd30 #23 Posted June 16, 2010 Tetris is the #1 game of all time. Period. If that game is not even on the list, then it's an epic fail. Tetris is the original "game for people who'd otherwise never go near a video game". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tr3vor #24 Posted June 16, 2010 you know what, thank god that Nintendo doesnt have Tetris rights anymore, if so they would have made a Wii tetris game thats extremely easy, has 10 Miis floating arount, tips popping up every 10 seconds, and that casual junk. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davepesc #25 Posted June 16, 2010 (edited) Meh, let me be the bad guy and defend this list: Tecmo (Super) Bowl: Sure, there were football games before this, but this was my first chance to BE Walter Payton. Even in "Walter Payton Football" for the SMS, you couldn't be Walter Payton! And the game was flat-out fun! AitD: Created a genre, or do you really want to argue Haunted House? SF2, sure there was Karate Champ and probably others before SF2, but Street Fighter 2 gave people a reason to head to the arcades. Wolf3D: I'd go Doom, but OK, Wolf was first. There were 3D games before, sure, but none that I or my friends had heard of. Doom (and later Wolf) was IT. Guitar Freaks: I admit I never heard of this, but I have 3 guitars in my house and no dance mats... MGS: Hmmm, tough one, It really brought "stealth action" into its own sub-genre. GTA3: Again, not the first, but the first to do it so well that half the world shit its collective pants. Edited June 16, 2010 by davepesc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites