Review of the Nintendo NES Top Loader vs Original oldschool "Toaster" model

[The_Laird]

I really hope you are joking. The NES was not hard to get hold of all all and my next door neighbour had one so I played a large amount of the games available too.

 

It didn't sell because it was over priced and the competition was better. The Sega Master System had better games and better graphics, you are the ones who missed out because you didn't get all the SMS games we did.

 

Mind you I never owned an NES either during those years I had a 2600 and a Spectrum first and then upgraded to an ST and Lynx before getting a Megadrive.

 

The NES only did so well in the US because Nintendo used unfair tactics to control the market. They couldn't do that in the rest of the world so it was on a level playing field and people saw the machine for what it really was.

[Tr3vor]

The NES only did so well in the US because Nintendo used unfair tactics to control the market.

 

how?

[fiddlepaddle]

The NES only did so well in the US because Nintendo used unfair tactics to control the market.

 

how?

Nintendo was a clever marketer, and used distribution control, misinformation, and unfair legal tactics to reduce or eliminate viable competition. It is true that many good games for the Master System were never released in the US, unfortunately. Find and read an excellent book on the topic called "Game Over".

[+wood_jl]

The NES only did so well in the US because Nintendo used unfair tactics to control the market.

 

how?

Nintendo was a clever marketer, and used distribution control, misinformation, and unfair legal tactics to reduce or eliminate viable competition. It is true that many good games for the Master System were never released in the US, unfortunately. Find and read an excellent book on the topic called "Game Over".

 

 

Nintendo - once the NES was a hot seller - would refuse to ship [Nintendo] products to stores that carried the competition. The stores knew they needed to stock Nintendo products in order to make sales, so they were [sort of] forced to comply. That's part of the unfair tactics....

 

It may be true the SMS had some great games that were not seen in North America, but this is not a mutually exclusive situation here; the NES had a number of first-class great games as well, which were missed out in areas where it was not popular.

[DeLorean]

I feel as though the point of the video was completely lost on most of the people participating in this thread, so let me just address a few points before I mention anything else:

 

1. Trolls be trollin'. Whether your American, North American, European, English, British, Elvish, Orcish, Tallish, Shortish, etc., has absolutely zero to do with what what that person was trying to say. If we're all going to start getting upset about about what sort of "ish" or "can" they are, then I'd be angry all day every day when I get mistaken for a white girl. Honestly, I'm not about to sit down with everyone who trips out about hearing me speak Spanish for the first time and explain my entire genealogy to them, or expect them to refer to me as a Hispanic-American. The bulk of the comments to this post are about how many kinds of races and countries there are. I mean no disrespect by what I've just said, I just think that everyone needs to lighten up a bit and not expect everyone to know exactly what to call other people from other parts of the world that they have probably never been to, and probably never will visit. If I was Chinese, and someone called me Japanese, that's one thing. You can get a little irritated by that. But if they call you Asian, just take it at face value and move on.

 

2. Whether the NES was a big deal in some countries and not so big of a deal in other countries is also besides the point. The people who participated in, and created, this video are from the United States. If the video doesn't apply to how things went down in your part of the world, it wasn't because anyone was trying to offend anyone. It was because this is what the people who made this video saw when they were growing up. In the U.S., the NES was a huuuuge deal when it came out.

 

3. If you would have actually taken the time to watch the entire video, you would have known that the whole thing wasn't meant to be about the NES. From what I gathered out of watching it was that it was about summer time. That's what the random picture montage was all about. The person who created this video is obviously reminded of Summer when they think of the NES, and decide to make a video about it.

 

4. If I came across as bitchy at any time in this post, I just had a long day at work, and my boss is about as close to being a Nazi as it gets (unless you know an actual Nazi, in which case, my boss is a pretty close runner-up). I'm not trying to come across as angry or irritated, but maaan, this job is killing me .

[kool kitty89]

When I was at school if you told somebody you owned an NES they would laugh at you and walk away . . . .

 

 

for you european guys at least, here NES is like a video game god.

you bring up NES in a conversation "OH YEAH! I remember that old thing. it was fun!"... But I have to tell everyone how to fix the connectors though...

From what I understand it varied widely throughout Europe, with the NES being significantly more popular in several countries (especially Germany), but there were also home computers on the market too, and in more direct competition than in the US by a big margin.

 

The 7800 was actually popular somewhere? Wasn't it the Sega Master System that took off in Europe?

 

The Master System ruled as far as consoles were concerned the 7800 did about the same as the NES, the 2600 was very popular right into the early nineties.

I think the 7800 did better overall in Europe (especially the UK as you've discribed), but did better relative to the SMS in the US (I think it outsold it by more than a million units, Sega figures are always vague though so the ~2 million US units sold is not particularly solid compared to the 3.77 million 7800s sold in the US -not all of North America, just the US- Atari had a considerably higher market share -including 2600 and XEGS- up until the launch of the Genesis, but both fell far behind Nintnedo rather quickly in '87 from the figures I've seen -more so in '88 and Nintendo peaked in '89/90)

 

The 2600 seems the ideal budget machine across the board (more important in Europe/UK though), even more so than the Speccy to some extent. (if the games were cheaper, certainly, but given they were carts vs tapes, I wouldn't be very confident of that)

[fiddlepaddle]

...I think the 7800 did better overall in Europe (especially the UK as you've discribed), but did better relative to the SMS in the US (I think it outsold it by more than a million units, Sega figures are always vague though so the ~2 million US units sold is not particularly solid compared to the 3.77 million 7800s sold in the US -not all of North America, just the US- Atari had a considerably higher market share...

Just based on the completely inadequate sample size of anecdotal evidence provided by the number of systems I've found in the wild here in the US over the years at thrift stores, flea markets, and yard sales, I'd agree with you and guess there were more 7800's sold here than Master Systems; maybe something like twice as many.

 

And, dare I say, many times as many NES consoles.

[lazyhoboguy]

@DeLorean

 

also @ #3

 

I think a lot of us disliked the video because of the misleading title. We expected a NES toploader vs. Toaster review, but we did not even get any mention of any of that until 3 minutes in. If you wanted to make a video about how NES reminded you guys of summer then you could have told us that in the title or something so we would expect it. The video wasn't horrible. I was just not expecting to see a photo montage for 3 minutes before the actual NES talk started.

[mbd30]

...I think the 7800 did better overall in Europe (especially the UK as you've discribed), but did better relative to the SMS in the US (I think it outsold it by more than a million units, Sega figures are always vague though so the ~2 million US units sold is not particularly solid compared to the 3.77 million 7800s sold in the US -not all of North America, just the US- Atari had a considerably higher market share...

Just based on the completely inadequate sample size of anecdotal evidence provided by the number of systems I've found in the wild here in the US over the years at thrift stores, flea markets, and yard sales, I'd agree with you and guess there were more 7800's sold here than Master Systems; maybe something like twice as many.

 

I guess there was still a market for the 7800 because of the reverse compatibility with the 2600, the lingering familiarity of the Atari brand name, and thus some parents buying it for their kids who still had a collection of 2600 carts. Such was the case with me at the time.

[PsychoKittyNet]

I feel as though the point of the video was completely lost on most of the people participating in this thread, so let me just address a few points before I mention anything else:

 

1. Trolls be trollin'. Whether your American, North American, European, English, British, Elvish, Orcish, Tallish, Shortish, etc., has absolutely zero to do with what what that person was trying to say. If we're all going to start getting upset about about what sort of "ish" or "can" they are, then I'd be angry all day every day when I get mistaken for a white girl. Honestly, I'm not about to sit down with everyone who trips out about hearing me speak Spanish for the first time and explain my entire genealogy to them, or expect them to refer to me as a Hispanic-American. The bulk of the comments to this post are about how many kinds of races and countries there are. I mean no disrespect by what I've just said, I just think that everyone needs to lighten up a bit and not expect everyone to know exactly what to call other people from other parts of the world that they have probably never been to, and probably never will visit. If I was Chinese, and someone called me Japanese, that's one thing. You can get a little irritated by that. But if they call you Asian, just take it at face value and move on.

 

Yea I understand you there, few people suspect fair-skinned blue eye'd me of being Hispanic, and it often catches people off guard, even after they hear my last name.

 

That being said, taste in video games is entirely subjective. I could never understand the concept of one game system being more adult than the other, mostly since gorwing up I had access to many consoles. The first consoles I played were the NES and the Atari 2600, and when the 16-Bit systems came out, my dad bought the Super Nintendo, because he liked Zelda and Mario, but my cousin had a Genesis (We got one later) and we used to have a lot of fun playing that too. Despite having Nintendo home consoles, my first portable was a Game Gear and I still have a lot of love for it. For me, it was always about fun games and good times, not some superiority contest based on hardware, aestetics or some subjective notion of maturity. Every system has its gems and everyone has its lumps of coal. For me, I'll just play fun games.

[atarilovesyou]

I really hope you are joking. The NES was not hard to get hold of all all and my next door neighbour had one so I played a large amount of the games available too.

 

It didn't sell because it was over priced and the competition was better. The Sega Master System had better games and better graphics, you are the ones who missed out because you didn't get all the SMS games we did.

 

Mind you I never owned an NES either during those years I had a 2600 and a Spectrum first and then upgraded to an ST and Lynx before getting a Megadrive.

 

The NES only did so well in the US because Nintendo used unfair tactics to control the market. They couldn't do that in the rest of the world so it was on a level playing field and people saw the machine for what it really was.

 

Not to argue needlessly (and I consider these things discussions rather than arguments!), first you say the NES was 'easy to get a hold of' and yet you say Nintendo used unfair practices to control the market. That seems contradictory. How about this argument: Nobody in North America wanted Sega as much as an NES because it had better games!

 

Rather than nitpick over details of graphics and such, I'll tell ya a story. I remember seeing my first Master System. It was actually before a Nintendo. I was blown away by how great it was; the cool cards, the sleek look, the gun. And then up the street to a bud who owned an NES. Yes, it looked like fun, but those early NES titles sure did look lame! A year passes...another friend had a full blown SMS collection...I mean, this guy had every game for it you could think of! And we played the heck out of em. But ya know, while they were fun, they weren't on par with the best of NES...I suppose some titles like Rampage and Double Dragon (to a degree) were graphically better, but SMS games overall were just not as good, in my opinion. The only degree of difficulty in acquiring SMS games was due to poor sales, which meant poor availability once the NES got rolling around 1988 (in my neck of the woods, anyway).

 

I think that SMS had a fanbase of computer-type gamers, and arcade gamers. I really did try to like the SMS over the NES (I loved the commercials; they had much more airtime here than the NES, in fact, early on up til 1990).

 

My final thing about the two systems is this...comfort. Those pads on the SMS were just not as responsive as the NES pad. I liked the SMS gun better, but then I think both guns were pretty lackluster.

 

In the end, there's only one reason that the NES outperformed the SMS: better games, better marketing and a better system...IMO. Give me any SMS title that's supposedly 'better' and I'll show you three on the NES that top it.

 

Sorry for the massive thread hijack. That video was kinda lame, for the reasons already mentioned.

[godslabrat]

[The_Laird]

That last photo sums it up, a pregnant Jesus and a nerd playing the NES and the cool guy has the SMS

 

@atarilovesyou - You never got the Master Systems best games in the US because of the way Nintendo controlled the market and shut them out. I have played a large amount of the NES library as my neighbour had one with a load of those 50 game pirate carts (he had previously lived in Singapore). Every single game I have played that was on both systems the Master System version is better: Afterburner, Altered Beast, Double Dragon, Rampage, Wonderboy, Operation Wolf and I could go on. As I said on a level playing field which it had in the rest of the world it sold better than the NES which should tell you something . . .

 

first you say the NES was 'easy to get a hold of' and yet you say Nintendo used unfair practices to control the market. That seems contradictory

 

Please explain to me how that is contradictory? Nintendo used unfair practices in North America and you said maybe the NES was hard to get hold of in the UK and Europe which as I explained it wasn't. Two unrelated subjects

[PsychoKittyNet]

I don't know about y'all but if Harrison Ford showed up at my place and asked to play some Sega, I would not say no. I would hate to play light gun games with him though, since he always shoots first.

[atarilovesyou]

That last photo sums it up, a pregnant Jesus and a nerd playing the NES and the cool guy has the SMS

 

@atarilovesyou - You never got the Master Systems best games in the US because of the way Nintendo controlled the market and shut them out. I have played a large amount of the NES library as my neighbour had one with a load of those 50 game pirate carts (he had previously lived in Singapore). Every single game I have played that was on both systems the Master System version is better: Afterburner, Altered Beast, Double Dragon, Rampage, Wonderboy, Operation Wolf and I could go on. As I said on a level playing field which it had in the rest of the world it sold better than the NES which should tell you something . . .

 

first you say the NES was 'easy to get a hold of' and yet you say Nintendo used unfair practices to control the market. That seems contradictory

 

Please explain to me how that is contradictory? Nintendo used unfair practices in North America and you said maybe the NES was hard to get hold of in the UK and Europe which as I explained it wasn't. Two unrelated subjects

 

It's contradictory because while you say you could easily get your hands on a Nintendo, you didn't because they used unfair market practices to keep them out of the market. And as far as overpricing them, the SMS was more expensive for a few years here than the NES. That's not due to unfair marketing, that's just the fact that Sega, much back then as they did time and time again, released overpriced hardware without appropriate software to back it up. Nintendo clearly out-marketed Sega in the 8-bit wars and the only thing I can see that was 'unfair' was having better controls over third party licensing. Sure, some dogs slipped through the cracks but considering what Sega did to IT'S third party manufacturers (essentially making it as difficult as possible for them to program and release games; you think Nintendo was bad?...why do you think that there's so very few non-Sega titles? Come on, you should know this), NES simply did a better job at selling better games for an overall better system.

 

Sega should have learned back then but it didn't, and where are they now?

 

Sega concentrated on their arcade ports, which were fun in the arcade yet somehow were just not as impressive at home. Of all the games you mentioned, Sunsoft's Blaster Master destroys them all in terms of an overall better game. Castlevania. Dragon Warrior series. Sure, Nintendo didn't replicate the arcade games as much or as well, but I'd rather play one player Double Dragon on the NES anytime (yet, back then, I would have told you the SMS version was 'better'...better graphics and two player, but a better game overall?..no way).

 

On whatever kind of level playing field you like, gamers make the final call. If your system is overpriced and your games are sub-par, you're going to fail hard.

 

PS...no way I'd wanna play SMS with Harrison Ford

[+wood_jl]

It's contradictory because while you say you could easily get your hands on a Nintendo, you didn't because they used unfair market practices to keep them out of the market. And as far as overpricing them, the SMS was more expensive for a few years here than the NES. That's not due to unfair marketing, that's just the fact that Sega, much back then as they did time and time again, released overpriced hardware without appropriate software to back it up. Nintendo clearly out-marketed Sega in the 8-bit wars and the only thing I can see that was 'unfair' was having better controls over third party licensing. Sure, some dogs slipped through the cracks but considering what Sega did to IT'S third party manufacturers (essentially making it as difficult as possible for them to program and release games; you think Nintendo was bad?...why do you think that there's so very few non-Sega titles? Come on, you should know this), NES simply did a better job at selling better games for an overall better system.

 

I don't get how it's contradictory. NES gained an early lead, probably due to Mario. NES became popular, but Nintendo stifled Sega by requiring retailers who wanted Nintendo products to promise not to carry the competition. NES had lots of momentum, and SMS never stood a chance of catching up, or even gaining significant market share. As a result, NES was sold everywhere (= easy to get) because of the unfair business practice of requiring retailers not to carry the SMS ( = unfair business practice). Now where is the contradiction in this true situation, exactly?

 

For the record, I love NES and I think it would have been more popular than SMS without unfair business practices though.

[Austin]

**Finds it annoying when threads turn into console bash-fests...

 

Back on track, I admit I lost interest in the video just as the guy started saying that the NES reminds him of Summer. That's about where I cut it off. For some reason I enjoyed the slideshow more than I did him talking. Maybe his part just wasn't done very well.

Edited July 22, 2010 by Austin

[The_Laird]

It's contradictory because while you say you could easily get your hands on a Nintendo, you didn't because they used unfair market practices to keep them out of the market.

 

What are you talking about?

 

The NES widely available comment was in reply to you saying that maybe the NES was not widely available outside of the US and Japan.

 

The unfair market practices comment refered to the US market.

 

TOTALLY UNCONNECTED ISSUES so impossible to be contradictory!

 

On whatever kind of level playing field you like, gamers make the final call. If your system is overpriced and your games are sub-par, you're going to fail hard.

 

Very true and outside of the US where there was a level playing field the NES did fail hard

[atarilovesyou]

It's contradictory because while you say you could easily get your hands on a Nintendo, you didn't because they used unfair market practices to keep them out of the market.

 

What are you talking about?

 

The NES widely available comment was in reply to you saying that maybe the NES was not widely available outside of the US and Japan.

 

The unfair market practices comment refered to the US market.

 

TOTALLY UNCONNECTED ISSUES so impossible to be contradictory!

 

On whatever kind of level playing field you like, gamers make the final call. If your system is overpriced and your games are sub-par, you're going to fail hard.

 

Very true and outside of the US where there was a level playing field the NES did fail hard

 

 

Dude, now you're just talking out of your, ahem, butt. You're going to produce some evidence to backup your claims. Also, I had a far longer response to this but my internet connection dropped...making me realize that if you wanna really discuss this issue, make another thread and post it here. I'm sure there's far more knowledgeable folks here who would gladly offer up some info to your claims of how great the SMS would have done in the States had it not been for these 'practices' of which you speak.

[The_Laird]

It's a well known fact the NES did badly in Europe, South America, Australia and the UK.

 

All markets the the Master System did really well in and I am sure pretty much anyone here with any knowledge of the world video game markets can back that up.

Edited July 24, 2010 by The_Laird

[video game addict]

Well going back to the video, I thought it was a little long, bored me a little.

 

 

However I really liked that NES Pad coffee table thingie, what's the story on that?

[atarilovesyou]

It's a well known fact the NES did badly in Europe, South America, Australia and the UK.

 

All markets the the Master System did really well in and I am sure pretty much anyone here with any knowledge of the world video game markets can back that up.

 

Again, I'd be interested to see what official information you have to back these claims up. In another thread, of course.

[JerryTerrifying]

America is a country Europe isn't.

 

I was born in England which is in the UK so that makes me either English or British. Not European

 

America is a Continent. The United States of America is a country. England is a country in the continent of Europe. Sorry pal, you're European.

[The_Laird]

America is a country Europe isn't.

 

I was born in England which is in the UK so that makes me either English or British. Not European

 

America is a Continent. The United States of America is a country. England is a country in the continent of Europe. Sorry pal, you're European.

 

I already corrected this so catch up on the topic and quit trolling. The USA is commonly refered to as America for short, North America and South America are the more common names for the continent. Go call a Mexican or Cuban American and see what response you get . . .

[Tr3vor]

Go call a Mexican or Cuban American and see what response you get . . .

 

 

You would probably get your ass kicked.