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Unauthorized copies of ColecoVision homebrew games

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Unfortunately, Opcode didn't say he was sorry, Instead he took his ball and went home. To coin a phrase.

When that happens, we will be good.

In my example I didn't mention the period of time for the communication break between me and John Dondzila. It took me more than a few hours to understand and be sorry because at first I was very angry... I needed time to calm down.

 

I understand that. I actually assumed that when you stated it. That is why I left the door open with this statement:

 

When that happens, we will be good.

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I'll ask our webmaster to put down temporaly the CollectorVision Website

J-F, looks like the rom links have been removed and the SD package collection listing now only inlcudes manuals and images - no roms at all. I sincerely hope that you now feel able to continue publishing and that the Collectorvision site will be back up soon.

 

I'm very pissed by all this

I know that some people wil buy the CD anyway, even if we gently ask to not

Someone contacted me about this...

So, damage is done, our roms will soon floating around every CV roms sites

 

I've to take time and think about all this

 

Today, I were supposed to finally release Pooyan, and post a thread about ordering etc ... now the project is on ice until all this is resolved

 

I just don't feel the need to do so now... :sad:

Yeah, very sad week :roll:

 

 

EDIT: I've just ask our Webmaster to shut down our Website

Now, I invite Opcode, Team Pixelboy and all other homebrewer to follow us as support to the Colecovision Homebrew Scene

Edited by retroillucid
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The majority of the coleco and homebrew roms are available if you spend a minute searching.

 

 

You guys should direct your anger at atarimax for making a cart like this to begin with!!!!!!

 

what do you think it was made for? duhhhhhhhh

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The majority of the coleco and homebrew roms are available if you spend a minute searching.

 

 

You guys should direct your anger at atarimax for making a cart like this to begin with!!!!!!

 

what do you think it was made for? duhhhhhhhh

 

This is not a reason for selling them!

 

And you think the Atarimax was made for this? really?

Tell me that you are not serious...

Edited by retroillucid
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The majority of the coleco and homebrew roms are available if you spend a minute searching.

 

 

You guys should direct your anger at atarimax for making a cart like this to begin with!!!!!!

 

what do you think it was made for? duhhhhhhhh

 

This is not a reason for selling them!

 

And you think the Atarimax was made for this? really?

Tell me that you are not serious...

 

than why was atarimax and cuttle cart and similar carts made?

 

i thought they were for putting a ton of roms on them so a person dont have to buy the original cart. im a dumbass i guess.

Edited by revolutionika
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@yurkie: I'm still seeing everything as being there as of 1:30p CDT on 7/30/10.

 

@pboland: I understand your frustration, but I also think your overreacting by take personal offense to a blanket statement Eduardo made that was not directed at you personally. I can't change how you feel any more that I can change how Eduardo feels.

 

@homebrew authors: I've been giving this a lot of thought... And Daniel makes some excellent points. A lot of the work done on the homebrews in the form of ports (arcade or Sega or MSX, etc) is *already* lifted from someone else's efforts earlier, and could easily backfire if DMCA is claimed. Sooner or later, this was bound to happen to some extent. I can totally empathize with the anger and disappointment of watching someone else profit off of your efforts that could still be profitable to you. This is a small scene overall, I'd be surprised if he sells 50 copies of his ZIP file. But it is a convenience for a part of your audience.

 

As JF stated, for the games we've bought we can dump them ourselves for Multicart use. He's done it himself he says. I personally don't have the tools to dump it, and they would likely cost me more than $20 in time and parts to acquire the tools and know-how. To that end, a service like his site may be of some use for the conversion of the cartridges that are owned by collectors like me. And the guy has put time into organizing, collecting, screenshot-ing, and manual-ing the ROMs. That does take some effort, even if it's minimal. It's kind of like taking your car to the mechanic... He may charge you $50 to replace a $2 wire. But he can justify it because *he* was the one who knew how and which wire to replace. Point being, some of us wouldn't know where to start to 'dump' roms that we own the cartridges to.

 

Truth is, I've yet to see OpCode's best work. I own 6 'major release' OpCode games, and of them, I've only played 2. Why? Because I can't remember the last time I took the 128-in-1 USB cart out of the system, and Sky Jaguar and SIC are the only two I've had access to the ROM files of. PMC is still in its bubble wrap. This is partly out of convenience, and partially based on the limited time I devote to gaming each month. If I had the tools to dump the games, or a way to obtain the ROM file from the publisher, I'm sure I would be among those amazed by what Eduardo accomplished with PMC.

 

But I get that I'm likely in the minority of people who would only want the games they bought honestly and forthright. I realize that I didn't purchase games like Penguin Land in either release. Not all games appeal to me, and even on the '80's release stuff, I don't put much time into collecting the games that don't appeal to me. (Of course, some games I've played on ROM files i wound up liking, and had no desire to play it initially! So there is that upside!)

 

Here are a few thoughts that might be able to help keep the Homebrew ship from hitting the proverbial iceberg...

 

- The simplest, someone BUY the zip file, and freely share it with whoever was going to buy it. Right now, I got a feeling there's a pretty good handful of you who have already bought it and are staying quiet about it to avoid ruffling feathers. If it were posted here, I'm curious as to how many people would actually download it. Right now, I think the vast majority of us are in agreement that the file being sold is just wrong. When I got my 7800 Cuttle Cart, I was able to find a 'complete' rom image sent designed for the cart free and easily. (It made getting that system up and running incredibly simple. And it also proved to me that the 7800 wasn't for me. :) Matter of fact, a collector here has been borrowing the cartridge for the past 6 months because I simply don't play it.)

 

I don't expect this to be the 'perfect solution' for the authors, nor do I expect much support for it. But realistically, most won't pay the $20 and line David's pockets if the set is out here for free. I'd like to buy it, but haven't as it's obvious that it would be against the wishes of the authors who've posted here, even if I do own the cartridges I'm wanting the ROMs for.

 

- The Homebrew community is rather small. And most of the authors are directly accessible, and likely have records of what they've sold and to who, even if it's just in the their Paypal histories. Another thwarting possibility would be to offer the ROMs to actual buyers of the games, and have some sort of serial number in the ROM file. The publishers could work together to form coalition and create a list of purchasers with their serial numbers, and a 'blacklist' of people *not* to sell to if their ROM file were to become public under any circumstances. Make it very clear, or even alter the title screens to express the ramification of sharing said rom file, and let the purchaser know that the ROM file is NOT part of the purchase package, and is to be deleted upon transfer of ownership of the original cartridge. In the event a cart is sold, the new owner can re-register to get a new rom with a new tracking serial number.

 

This idea serves 2 fold-- it keeps track of the ROM files to some extent. Most people will be persuaded to NOT share the roms, if not out of fear, out of respect that the author's intentions are reasonable and clear. It vaguely follows the DVD industry's model and acceptance of piracy and now including 'digital copies' of movies with the physical discs to curb piracy. It also serves as a way to create a list of customers and their buying habits. You could possibly see the crossover of who's buying what and where, and maybe even increase sales by offering a "Colecovision Consortium" mailing list. I'd be interested to see how many of the same names appear on the owner list for Ghost Blaster, PMC and Mario Brothers. :) For a lot of fans, it simply boils down to knowing if or when a title is being released, and let's face it-- marketing doesn't really exist in the homebrew world. If you miss the wrong forum post, your likely just out of luck on getting that title at a reasonable price, or at all from the author.

 

- The last, and one I've suggested before, would be to again, embrace the change. Sell just the ROM. Serial number it as suggested above, but offer the games in two formats. Digital Download or Classic Cartridge. The music industry fought digital delivery tooth and nail. And if they can't win that battle with their checkbook and resources, I doubt the homebrew author can either. I propose embracing the change, not resisting it. Resistance only serves to frustrate and anger in most situations.

 

To close, I remind you of the old chinese proverb, "You cannot prevent the birds of sorrow from flying over your head, but you can prevent them from building nests in your hair." Basically, don't let the things you can't control get you down, but work within the bounds of what you CAN control.

 

Sorry again for the long drawn out post, but this is a pretty serious issue I think, and am trying to help remedy it. There's no point if complaining about a problem if you aren't will to offer a solution, IMO. :)

 

Murph

Edited by Murph74
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This is not a reason for selling them!

 

And you think the Atarimax was made for this? really?

Tell me that you are not serious...

Calm down please...

 

I guess what he's trying to say is that being able to play even megacarts games with the new Atarimax product can be interpreted by some people as an invitation to get these rom files instead of supporting the homebrewers by buying their cartridges.

 

Question : If I've made some excellent points, why my message (in question) don't even have your votes? Not asking for, just curious.

Edited by newcoleco
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The majority of the coleco and homebrew roms are available if you spend a minute searching.

 

 

You guys should direct your anger at atarimax for making a cart like this to begin with!!!!!!

 

what do you think it was made for? duhhhhhhhh

 

This is not a reason for selling them!

 

And you think the Atarimax was made for this? really?

Tell me that you are not serious...

 

than why was atarimax and cuttle cart and similar carts made?

 

i thought they were for putting a ton of roms on them so a person dont have to buy the original cart. im a dumbass i guess.

 

No, they are mean to play all PD roms or ROM of commercial games you physicaly own

 

They're also usefull for developpers/homebrewers and Beta Testers

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You guys should direct your anger at atarimax for making a cart like this to begin with!!!!!!

 

:roll:

 

The line for heaping abuse on me starts over in the Atari 8-bit forum... you'll have to take a number I'm afraid. :lol:

 

Steve

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The majority of the coleco and homebrew roms are available if you spend a minute searching.

 

 

You guys should direct your anger at atarimax for making a cart like this to begin with!!!!!!

 

what do you think it was made for? duhhhhhhhh

 

 

Big difference between old Colecovision/Intellivision roms/games that no longer generate $$$ for the the parent company and the homebrew

efforts still being sold for profit. Regular released homebrew is not the issue or complaint here like Daniels that have been released, the problem

is distributing, for profit, titles like pac man collection etc. Steve at Atarimax even includes to current games but this was through special arrangement with the developer, roms like these are not generally found and should not be included without agreement with the creator. How about YOU create a new game for sale and have someone include YOUR work and sell it without permission then see how you like it.

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than why was atarimax and cuttle cart and similar carts made?

 

i thought they were for putting a ton of roms on them so a person dont have to buy the original cart. im a dumbass i guess.

 

I can assure you AtariMax was *NOT* promoting or intending on this multicart for a 'dead' system to be a piracy tool. If that were the case, I'm sure he'd focus his talents on a current generation system. I don't want to put words into his mouth, but I believe the multicarts are intended as a convenience of library, to be able to store you collection safely while still enjoy in the games, and to possibly play the games that are no longer available for purchase- mainly referring to the original commercial games. Some would also point out it's use as a homebrew dev tool, but those users are far and few between, I'd think.

 

While there is that audience out there that's buying the cart so they don't have to buy the original cartridges (and it's somewhat acceptable by most to do that in the case of 80's released titles from what I've seen), I'd say that's a very SMALL part of the already small audience the product has. I'd even suggest that 95%+ of the owners of the MultiCart have pretty impressive collections of original carts as well. Maybe I'm off, and have nothing to back that up, but that's what I'm choosing to believe. I decided. :)

Edited by Murph74

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@Murph

 

Dumping roms? simply ask buddy! ;)

My dumper cost me 250$ (its homemade)

That was the price to pay to have all my homebrew games dumped

 

I'm the one who only play with my Multicart, I truly understand your desire to own every roms out there

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@Murph

 

Dumping roms? simply ask buddy! ;)

My dumper cost me 250$ (its homemade)

That was the price to pay to have all my homebrew games dumped

 

I'm the one who only play with my Multicart, I truly understand your desire to own every roms out there

 

@JF: I don't have a desire to own every ROM. As a collector, I want to own all the cartridges that appeal to me. :) And personally, I want to be able to play the games more often than I do. But to be honest, spending $250 on a cart dumping setup is really hard to justify when someone else has already done the dumping work. Again, I know i'm in the minority-- hell I may be the ONLY one lol-- but if the publisher prefers we only play off the original cartridge, then I'll respect that... even if it means I don't get around to playing that game. :(

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:roll:

 

The line for heaping abuse on me starts over in the Atari 8-bit forum... you'll have to take a number I'm afraid. :lol:

 

Steve

 

Sorry your being villinized Steve. Your products are great asset. It game me the opprotunity to play the original hard to find/expensive original games until I could get a copy. I am trying to collect all the original games CIB, and being able to play all the original roms and decide which games I wanted to buy first was awesome. My girlfriend fell in love with Mr. Do's Castle via the 128-1 and I bought the loose cart off of Ebay so she could submit a world record to Twingalaxies.

 

Your 128-1 has also been a benefit in being a beta-tester for several homebrews. With the soon to be shipping SD Multi-cart, you expanded on an already great product and this new cartridge will allow beta testing for the new higher capacity binaries, saving time and money for the homebrewer and the beta tester.

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Big difference between old Colecovision/Intellivision roms/games that no longer generate $$$ for the the parent company and the homebrew efforts still being sold for profit. Regular released homebrew is not the issue or complaint here like Daniels that have been released, the problem is distributing, for profit, titles like pac man collection etc. Steve at Atarimax even includes to current games but this was through special arrangement with the developer, roms like these are not generally found and should not be included without agreement with the creator. How about YOU create a new game for sale and have someone include YOUR work and sell it without permission then see how you like it.

Good post. :) I would just like to add that most of us homebrewers don't really make a "profit" from these games. We just charge money for them to eventually recoup our production expenses. This is certainly not a cheap hobby by any means, especially when one insists on including a box and manual with every game! :ponder:

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@Murph

 

Dumping roms? simply ask buddy! ;)

My dumper cost me 250$ (its homemade)

That was the price to pay to have all my homebrew games dumped

 

I'm the one who only play with my Multicart, I truly understand your desire to own every roms out there

 

@JF: I don't have a desire to own every ROM. As a collector, I want to own all the cartridges that appeal to me. :) And personally, I want to be able to play the games more often than I do. But to be honest, spending $250 on a cart dumping setup is really hard to justify when someone else has already done the dumping work. Again, I know i'm in the minority-- hell I may be the ONLY one lol-- but if the publisher prefers we only play off the original cartridge, then I'll respect that... even if it means I don't get around to playing that game. :(

 

The better example I could give is

 

In the NES Homebrew Scene, Sivak created (a really wonderfull game) Battle Kid

When I first see the demo I was like: Man! I want to try it in my NES Emu

Yep, the guy decide to not distribute the rom

Yes, I've buy the cart and what a wonderfull game is! :D

 

All in all, I'm not willing to buy a NES dumper to play only some homebrew with emu or NES multicart (powerpak)

 

So I've to play the real thing, and this is no big deal ;)

 

Cheers buddy :)

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than why was atarimax and cuttle cart and similar carts made?

 

i thought they were for putting a ton of roms on them so a person dont have to buy the original cart. im a dumbass i guess.

 

I can assure you AtariMax was *NOT* promoting or intending on this multicart for a 'dead' system to be a piracy tool. If that were the case, I'm sure he'd focus his talents on a current generation system. I don't want to put words into his mouth, but I believe the multicarts are intended as a convenience of library, to be able to store you collection safely while still enjoy in the games, and to possibly play the games that are no longer available for purchase- mainly referring to the original commercial games. Some would also point out it's use as a homebrew dev tool, but those users are far and few between, I'd think.

 

While there is that audience out there that's buying the cart so they don't have to buy the original cartridges (and it's somewhat acceptable by most to do that in the case of 80's released titles from what I've seen), I'd say that's a very SMALL part of the already small audience the product has. I'd even suggest that 95%+ of the owners of the MultiCart have pretty impressive collections of original carts as well. Maybe I'm off, and have nothing to back that up, but that's what I'm choosing to believe. I decided. :)

 

 

 

It may not of started out that way. but look at the problems it is causing now.

 

 

I must be the only person on AA, digital press. etc etc that still only buys original carts and does not illegally download roms,movies,mp3s and so on.

 

you are all a bunch of criminals and you know it. just admit it and move on. ;)

 

 

p.s. dont kill the messenger. :cool:

Edited by revolutionika

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Well, Sivak gave us all a demo, a small portion to satisfy peoples' curiosity about his work. That's what I'd suggest other homebrewers do from this point forward... release a public ROM that offers a minute or two of gameplay. It satisfies the ROM hoarders out there who have to try everything, and gives players who may be legitimately interested in the cartridge an incentive to purchase it.

 

Piracy is the double-edged sword upon which all homebrewers dance. They very rarely develop original software, instead depending on established intellectual property because they know this is what the average old-school gamer wants. However, that IP still belongs to the companies that created it. They put themselves at risk of being sued by the IP holders, and can't pursue legal action against people who pirate their games because they know that technically, what they are doing is illegal.

 

What I would personally like to see from homebrewers (in addition to making demos available) are new concepts; games that could stand on their own as original designs, but with the arcade feel that retro gamers crave. That way they're bringing fresh content to the old consoles without violating copyright. Ghost Blasters is a step in the right direction but as an obvious reference to the Ghostbusters films it doesn't go far enough. What I'd like are games built around new scenarios based on dreams, observations, or just brainstorming. This is the way the best game designers do things. Miyamoto based many of his own games on real-life experiences. Exploring in caves as a child yielded The Legend of Zelda, while gardening as an adult produced Pikmin. Dave Theurer's games had their genesis in nightmares... the fear of nuclear annihilation resulted in Missile Command, while hungry monsters crawling out of a bottomless pit gave the world Tempest.

 

Why don't we see any of this from homebrew game designers? Don't just do Pac-Man and Space Invaders over and over again... show some of that same pioneering spirit as developers from the 1980s. Don't put the old game consoles on life support; bring them back to life.

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I think that real Coleco fans will support us regardless of these cd-roms or web sites giving away our rom files. I'm sure someone will prove me wrong about this but we are still selling cartridges so we still have the support of the fans.

 

I would rather buy the individual carts instead of these multicarts. The multicarts take away from the authenticity of playing the respective system in the way it was intended to be played.

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The majority of the coleco and homebrew roms are available if you spend a minute searching.

 

 

You guys should direct your anger at atarimax for making a cart like this to begin with!!!!!!

 

what do you think it was made for? duhhhhhhhh

 

Right...because none of the ROMS available out there should be played via flash cart??

 

To quote another thread I just read...that's like banning steak knives because they can be used as a weapon.

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What I would personally like to see from homebrewers (in addition to making demos available) are new concepts; games that could stand on their own as original designs, but with the arcade feel that retro gamers crave. That way they're bringing fresh content to the old consoles without violating copyright. Ghost Blasters is a step in the right direction but as an obvious reference to the Ghostbusters films it doesn't go far enough. What I'd like are games built around new scenarios based on dreams, observations, or just brainstorming. This is the way the best game designers do things. Miyamoto based many of his own games on real-life experiences. Exploring in caves as a child yielded The Legend of Zelda, while gardening as an adult produced Pikmin. Dave Theurer's games had their genesis in nightmares... the fear of nuclear annihilation resulted in Missile Command, while hungry monsters crawling out of a bottomless pit gave the world Tempest.

 

Why don't we see any of this from homebrew game designers? Don't just do Pac-Man and Space Invaders over and over again... show some of that same pioneering spirit as developers from the 1980s. Don't put the old game consoles on life support; bring them back to life.

 

I agree with you on creating brand new games that are not ports of arcade classics. On the other hand, I think there are people that would agree that the ColecoVision was a great system with a short life span because of the economic conditions of the industry at that time. With that, I think fans of the CV see holes in the library that have been filled only recently with the release of Pac-Man Collection, Space Invaders, Astro Invader and Mario Bros, for example.

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I don't understand why you're shutting down your site in response to this. If you do that, the only way to get your games will be through the pirating douche. If your site is up, you can at least do some business and warn people about pirates.

 

Look at it this way, the people who want to steal your games will find a way. They are not your customers. People who buy retro-games want to support the hobby. So they need to know that this sort of thing is happening, and who really deserves the money.

 

Oh yeah, and DMCA the shit out of this motherfucker.

Edited by Hatta
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I don't understand why you're shutting down your site in response to this. If you do that, the only way to get your games will be through the pirating douche. If your site is up, you can at least do some business and warn people about pirates.

 

Look at it this way, the people who want to steal your games will find a way. They are not your customers. People who buy retro-games want to support the hobby. So they need to know that this sort of thing is happening, and who really deserves the money.

 

Well, main reason I decided to shut down our site is:

 

In the end, the guy is kind of right

 

I don't have permission to sell some of our games since they're copyrighted titles

But, that doesn't mean we will be "out of buisness"

 

 

Really, this is all going too far

I've sadly contribute to this myself

 

Sincerly, If I've hurt someone, I do appologize

That said, I understand each side of the medal

 

The good thing is, people do want original games, no Arcade conversion

You'll be happy with our upcomming Ninja game ;)

 

Cheers everyone

 

J-F

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