Unauthorized copies of ColecoVision homebrew games

[NIAD]

Friday, I've got this reply from the guy in question when I've asked for a talk.

 

I do not have to write you a detailed explanation at this time but I

will Monday.

 

I have removed the items authors have requested so please know that I am

not trying to anger anyone.

 

So he should reply today with "detailed explanation".

 

 

... It's the other rom files like Fireman and Mario Bros 128K that I don't think was ever available for download...

 

 

While I agrre with you on finished versions of Homebrew games like Mario Bros., Ghost N Zombies, etc. and that a lot of Work-In-Progress Demos were made available by their authors (and this might be confusing the issue a little), there is one ROM in particular that I have a problem with being of issue and that is Fireman by Nice Ideas.

 

While it was a tremendous stroke of good luck and unbelievable timing that Mr. Hill (think he goes by Coleconut here) came across this cartridge, I don't believe anyone has the right to lay claim to ownership of this cartridge's rights and get upset if the rom image get's floated around the Internet. Coleconut was generous enough to share it with the community (did CollectorVision do the mass production of the carts?) when he could have easily held onto it and drum up a firestorm of interest and therefore a feeding frenzy if he ever decided to auction it off. This, in my mind, is a case where the ROM image should be freely made available for all to enjoy and there are plenty of people that would still pay good money for a C.I.B. actual cartridge version. Let me list a few examples:

 

1) SteamRoller - the author gave it to the community freely

2) All the unreleased cartridge rom files that I came across or others were generous enough to send us while working at Lyle Marschand's store and running NIAD like Yoke's on You. We placed them into the Public Domain for all to enjoy at a nominal free to cover the Disk or DDP and the little time it took to make copies and label them.

3) All the unreleased ADAM software like Jeopardy, Super SubRoc, The Best of Electronic Arts, SmartBASIC V2.0, The Best of Sierra (Troll's Tale only), etc. that were sent to Lyle by a Coleco employee (while still employed at Coleco) with a letter basically stating, "Do what you feel is right with these". Guess what, Lyle did what was right and placed them into the Public Domain for all to enjoy freely. He could have easily had Wayne Motel add copy-protection to each game/program, sold them at an inflated price and MADE A KILLING, but he wasn't about the all-mighty dollar. There was a perception in the ADAM Community back in the day re. Lyle/NIAD that he was making a small fortune off everything, well he was, but he put everything and then some back into NIAD and his computer store.

4) I came across a number of unreleased and proto items thanks to a NIAD member in late '92 including new revision SmartWRITER eproms and some further ADAM software items.... all were placed into the Public Domain for everyone to enjoy. The SW eproms took 'til a couple months ago as I sent them out to Walters Software in 1993 to dump to files to see what we really had. The first thing I did when I got them was to add a little information file, send them to Joe B. to make available on his site for all to download and include in the Coleco & ADAM Collection that I assembled.

 

I can go on and on listing examples, not only by NIAD or myself, but by others in the community back then and since. It could get quite long.

 

Guess what all this boils downs to is APPLES and ORANGES. To me, the ColecoVision and the ADAM was something fun, something I enjoyed, something I made a lot of friends because of (some local, some the other side of the world), something that became a passion for me and I know many others and when it became too much due to real life issues I had to sadly bow out. I followed all the happenings over the years and have gotten a lot more enjoyment from my favorite systems since, but this time I think I am enjoying everything more being on this side of the fence.

 

So let's not lose focus on this simple fact, it's about having FUN... and if you can make a few dollars along the way "GOD BLESS".

 

Jim

[tregare]

 

What??!!

 

What is the adress of his website?

 

http://www.beeslife.com/colecovision/colecovision.php

 

Your games are there too...

 

 

unless he ahs changed something ont he page, there is nothing on that page for sale, he is offering them up for download but not sale that I can see.

[GroovyBee]

unless he ahs changed something ont he page, there is nothing on that page for sale, he is offering them up for download but not sale that I can see.

 

Yep! The page has changed since this all kicked off last week. Nothing is for sale now.

[+Yurkie]

Yep, It looks like the page has changed. I just hope that anyone that bought it early on and got the homebrew roms, doesn't distribute them.

[Retro Rogue]

Wow, is this art imitating piracy or piracy imitating art? Oh the irony of people not being able to file on the DMCA because.... well....their games were pirated properties in the first place. If you're illegally using someone elses property, you're hardly on a moralistic pedestal to be complaining about other people doing the same to your port. No matter how much I may agree that it sucks that person is profiting off your hard work (and I really do feel the same as all of you on what this guy is doing). But then the circularity returns becuase some of you have been profiting off the hard work of the original property in the first place. It's really a catch-22, and I hope the positive thing to come out of this is that more homebrewers start doing original game work - which you'd be fully able to protect under the DMCA.

[jaybird3rd]

Wow, is this art imitating piracy or piracy imitating art? Oh the irony of people not being able to file on the DMCA because.... well....their games were pirated properties in the first place. If you're illegally using someone elses property, you're hardly on a moralistic pedestal to be complaining about other people doing the same to your port. No matter how much I may agree that it sucks that person is profiting off your hard work (and I really do feel the same as all of you on what this guy is doing). But then the circularity returns becuase some of you have been profiting off the hard work of the original property in the first place. It's really a catch-22, and I hope the positive thing to come out of this is that more homebrewers start doing original game work - which you'd be fully able to protect under the DMCA.

I totally agree. I've been making many of the same points in "the other thread" on this issue.

[Rev]

Wow, is this art imitating piracy or piracy imitating art? Oh the irony of people not being able to file on the DMCA because.... well....their games were pirated properties in the first place. If you're illegally using someone elses property, you're hardly on a moralistic pedestal to be complaining about other people doing the same to your port. No matter how much I may agree that it sucks that person is profiting off your hard work (and I really do feel the same as all of you on what this guy is doing). But then the circularity returns becuase some of you have been profiting off the hard work of the original property in the first place. It's really a catch-22, and I hope the positive thing to come out of this is that more homebrewers start doing original game work - which you'd be fully able to protect under the DMCA.

 

 

ive been trying to convey this exact point, only to be called a troll by closed minded and unreasonable people.

[VectorGamer]

And this one:

 

http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/166838-its-evil-to-steal-a-homebrew-rom-but-not-from-nintendo/page__view__findpost__p__2064029

[newcoleco]

No, I didn't get a reply yet from the cdrom guy.

 

It seems that nobody in this thread did bring "fair use" yet which mentions that it's allowed to use copyrighted material under certain circonstances and one of them is if no real benefits is made. This is vague and I guess it's this grey zone some wrongly interpret as "ok, we can do anything". "fair use" doesn't allow anyone to pretend to be Nintendo or sell copyrighted games using their registered names and characters like Mario and Donkey Kong. A quick look at what Nintendo consider illegal confirms what I'm saying.

 

http://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp

 

That's why, knowing that the most concerned homebrewers about the cd-rom also did games that Nintendo consider illegal, I've informed immediately people here last week that filling up a DMCA notice, like suggested Albert, might not be a good idea.

 

I want to add something...

 

We have all an influence in the decisions taken by the homebrewers; for who do you think these games are made in a lot of cartridges? In order to make games that fans will appreciate, a good way is to ask for suggestions and it's exactly what homebrewers do (sometimes). I consider hypocrisy to pretend not knowing that talking about commercial arcade games is talking about copyrighted material. So, I find it rude and an unfair reaction to bash on homebrewers while saying things regarding the illegal aspect of homebrew games without any consideration whatsoever of the risks and efforts put into these game projects. So please... be nice.

 

And again, english is not my cup of tea so I hope you understand at least what I'm trying to say if anything is not in the correct syntax or words.

Edited August 3, 2010 by newcoleco

[goldenegg]

As I mentioned in another thread, the whole question about developing and selling homebrew based on copyrighted materials is a tricky one. I think it would be bad for the scene in general if such development would stop, but it might be time to look at the distribution methods being used.

 

And again, english is not my cup of tea so I hope you understand at least what I'm trying to say if anything is not in the correct syntax or words.

 

You don't give yourself enough credit. Votre Anglais est tres bon!

[retroillucid]

Well, let me express myself please (even if my english is not my cup of tea too )

 

If I decided to make Mario Bros on Colecovision, it was not to pirate Nintendo or to make cash out of it

I always love trowing 25cents in this arcade machine as kid

At this time, I owned a Colecovision and I was expected to get Mario Bros for my delighted console.... yeah.. it never happen...

That's the reason I decided to make Mario Bros on Colecovision

The Box? ... Artworks?... well all in the deepest respect of this liscence

Including the Nintendo logo? ... That's their game after all

Making an exact port? well.. not really, we even included extra level

 

Contacting Nintendo is something I've think alot when I decide to port it to Colecovision. But let's face it, I knew they'll not give a **** and will never get a reply...

 

ColecoVision was an "Arcade Quality Game System" ... they always promote this system that way

This is mainly why homebrewer want to port Arcade Game to it

Don't be fooled, I really like new creations like Newcoleco has done

I even have some new creation that I really want to make

 

I don't really care about Mario Bros beiing a PD Rom, you're right after all, this is a copyrighted game, and I DO REALLY WANT more poeple to enjoy it on Colecovision system or emulator

 

Anyway, no hard feeling everyone!

 

 

Cheers

[goldenegg]

I don't really care about Mario Bros beiing a PD Rom, you're right after all, this is a copyrighted game, and I DO REALLY WANT more poeple to enjoy it on Colecovision system or emulator

 

So maybe for games like this, a PD ROM is distributed along with a 'deluxe' package on a cart. That model has been successful for some Atari homebrew.

[retroillucid]

I don't really care about Mario Bros beiing a PD Rom, you're right after all, this is a copyrighted game, and I DO REALLY WANT more poeple to enjoy it on Colecovision system or emulator

 

So maybe for games like this, a PD ROM is distributed along with a 'deluxe' package on a cart. That model has been successful for some Atari homebrew.

 

Yep, that what I'll be doing for our upcomming titles

[Retro Rogue]

So maybe for games like this, a PD ROM is distributed along with a 'deluxe' package on a cart. That model has been successful for some Atari homebrew.

 

Or maybe it's time for AtariAge or another source to take the iPhone app store route and allow a place for authors to sell legal downloads of their homebrew roms for use in emulators and flash carts. Whatever smaller amount they think is fair (since there's no physical cart or packaging involved), giving the option of purchasing the full carts and such for people who like to collect those. You have two revenue streams that way as a homebrew author, supporting further homebrew development. That's also a way of at least attempting to assert control over the issue this thread brought up, by filling a market need not currently being met by you guys. I for one would be happy to pay for a homebrew rom download if I knew it was going to the author and helping for further development.

Edited August 3, 2010 by wgungfu

[classics]

Or maybe it's time for AtariAge or another source to take the iPhone app store route and allow a place for authors to sell legal downloads of their homebrew roms for use in emulators and flash carts. Whatever smaller amount they think is fair (since there's no physical cart or packaging involved), giving the option of purchasing the full carts and such for people who like to collect those. You have two revenue streams that way as a homebrew author, supporting further homebrew development. That's also a way of at least attempting to assert control over the issue this thread brought up, by filling a market need not currently being met by you guys. I for one would be happy to pay for a homebrew rom download if I knew it was going to the author and helping for further development.

 

I'd love to offer digital editions of games for sale, separately or as an add-on pack. I did approach a few people about it before announcing the pre-order, but except for J-F there wasn't much interest.

 

Maybe people just need time to get used to the idea.

 

Steve

[the.golden.ax]

So maybe for games like this, a PD ROM is distributed along with a 'deluxe' package on a cart. That model has been successful for some Atari homebrew.

 

Or maybe it's time for AtariAge or another source to take the iPhone app store route and allow a place for authors to sell legal downloads of their homebrew roms for use in emulators and flash carts. Whatever smaller amount they think is fair (since there's no physical cart or packaging involved), giving the option of purchasing the full carts and such for people who like to collect those. You have two revenue streams that way as a homebrew author, supporting further homebrew development. That's also a way of at least attempting to assert control over the issue this thread brought up, by filling a market need not currently being met by you guys. I for one would be happy to pay for a homebrew rom download if I knew it was going to the author and helping for further development.

 

 

I'd like to see the classic game authors make enough money to justify their time. This would mean more games for us to play. Paying them pure profit would be very good for the community. This is why Shareware worked so well in the late 80's and early 90's.

 

AX

[newcoleco]

I'd love to offer digital editions of games for sale, separately or as an add-on pack. I did approach a few people about it before announcing the pre-order, but except for J-F there wasn't much interest.

 

Maybe people just need time to get used to the idea.

 

Steve

Can you provide the link to that discussion about add-on pack? Edited August 3, 2010 by newcoleco

[classics]

I'd love to offer digital editions of games for sale, separately or as an add-on pack. I did approach a few people about it before announcing the pre-order, but except for J-F there wasn't much interest.

 

Maybe people just need time to get used to the idea.

 

Steve

Can you provide the link to that discussion about add-on pack?

 

It was by e-mail. If anyone has games they would like to offer as downloadables drop me a PM.

 

Steve

Edited August 3, 2010 by classics

[RangerG]

I really hope this discussion leads to the digital distribution of homebrews and hacks - a would be an eager buyer.

[RangerG]

I really hope this discussion leads to the digital distribution of homebrews and hacks - I would be an eager buyer.

[retroillucid]

I really hope this discussion leads to the digital distribution of homebrews and hacks - I would be an eager buyer.

 

I'm for this!

 

Actually, I'm a Homebrewer, but I'm also a customer of all CV homebrews

I like to play those games with Emulators and Multi-Cart

I do like to collect them in physical form too... well mainly

 

So, all in all, this discussion make me think ALOT about all this.

I've come to conclusion that copyrighted games MUST be distributed in digital form too... as well as original creation if the author want to do so

But no one should sell them to make profits out of them

 

 

Cheers

[Retro Rogue]

I'd love to offer digital editions of games for sale, separately or as an add-on pack. I did approach a few people about it before announcing the pre-order, but except for J-F there wasn't much interest.

 

Maybe people just need time to get used to the idea.

 

Steve

 

That's the problem though, a single author alone isn't going to generate enough interest. You need to have an actual location for current authors and future ones to utilize, and for people to go regularly to buy from all these authors.

 

I'll tell you what, I was actually writing a web app to support something similar to this last year (just a different digital media). I'd be happy to tool it up again for you guys and set it up at atarihq for you all to use if there's enough interest.

Edited August 3, 2010 by wgungfu

[Greg2600]

I'm late to the party, wow, quite a controversy. For what it's worth, there aren't many CV torrents alive, and the ones that are, have been stripped of several official games like Donky Kong. So removing roms is not that tough. I doubt any of these will get out anyway. How did this guy get all these roms in the first place?

Edited August 3, 2010 by Greg2600

[jaybird3rd]

I'd love to offer digital editions of games for sale, separately or as an add-on pack. I did approach a few people about it before announcing the pre-order, but except for J-F there wasn't much interest.

 

Maybe people just need time to get used to the idea.

 

Steve

That's the problem though, a single author alone isn't going to generate enough interest. You need to have an actual location for current authors and future ones to utilize, and for people to go regularly to buy from all these authors.

 

I'll tell you what, I was actually writing a web app to support something similar to this last year (just a different digital media). I'd be happy to tool it up again for you guys and set it up at atarihq for you all to use if there's enough interest.

This is an intriguing idea to me. Now that multi-carts and emulators are available for most of the classic systems, I think digital distribution is an idea whose time has come.

[goldenegg]

There is still the issue of developers using trademarks owned by other companies in their work. If a central site were set up for selling those types of ROMs, it would surely start bringing attention to something we'd rather keep a under the radar. If such a site can be set up, I think certain guidelines will need to be set for the types of homebrew that will be sold.

 

Just out of curiosity .... has any homebrew dev ever attempted to contact an original copyright holder for permission to port a game?