Atari 7800 Forum Description

[Madaracs]

OK, so my anal-retentiveness is showing. I apologize folks, but every time I read the forum description for the 7800, I cringe a little. No offense to the author. (And I realize it's probably you, Al.)

 

The description:

 

The Atari 7800 was Atari's answer to the NES, originally slated to be released in 1984. Sharing more in common with the 2600 than the 5200, the 7800 plays 2600 games and uses 2600 compatible controllers.

 

I take issue with it for the following reasons:

 

1. The Atari 7800 was not the answer to the NES. It was being developed at the same time. In fact, at the time that Atari and NES were in negotiations for distribution of the NES in North America, not only was Atari bidding to be the NES distributor but they had even discussed using the NES tech instead of the newly designed TIA/MARIA system! (And there is more to that story too!)
    
   
2. "Originally slated to be released in 1984." is a true statement... though the fact is that the 7800 was released in 1984 to a limited market. Uncle Jack came along and killed that though. Thus, the late release in 1986.
    
   
3. "Sharing more in common with the 2600 than the 5200, the 7800 plays 2600 games and uses 2600 compatible controllers." True, true and sort of true. Yes, it was backward compatible with the 2600. Yes, you can play your 2600 games. But the controllers were new with independently functional dual fire buttons. So in my humble opinion, that last statement is almost correct.
   

 

I'm not trying to offend anyone here so I hope that everyone's cool. And since I'm nitpicking, I offer a new header description for the 7800 forum:

 

In 1984, the Atari 7800 was to be the company's flagship game console. Correcting the follies of the 5200, the 7800 sported a new chipset capable of more powerful graphics, backward compatibility with the Atari 2600 and brand new controllers.

 

Since most of us know this history, I think this description is more appropriate to the forum. If you don't agree that's fine with me, too. The 7800 happens to be one of my favorite consoles. Although I didn't own one back in 1984/1986--It's tainted history and technological capabilities and accomplishments at the time of its early release command my respect.

 

Thanks for listening, gang.

 

-Madaracs (Mad-er-axe)

Edited August 2, 2010 by Madaracs

[Rex Dart]

Hey, I'm with you. That "answer to the NES" line puts me off every time I see it.

[Madaracs]

Hey, I'm with you. That "answer to the NES" line puts me off every time I see it.

 

It's the proud American in me saying, "Wait! We almost invented the most important gaming console in history!" Heh heh.

 

Can you imagine if this thing had stayed in the market for a full year before the NES was released in North America? That would have been so cool. It likely would have bred a healthy competition between NES and Atari and we would have seen a lot more releases with the POKEY chip carts. We also would have probably saw the joypads released here in NA instead of only in Europe.

Edited August 2, 2010 by Madaracs

[jetset]

So you seem to be a bit insulted at the current description of the 7800 and your answer is to take a shot at the 5200 instead?

What "follies" did the 5200 suffer from that were corrected via the 7800? There's enough "in-fighting" between the two consoles. Is there really a need to add to that?

 

I agree, if I were a big 7800 fan I'd probably not care for the NES comparison, but I vote a resounding 'NO' to the poll.

[+FujiSkunk]

The 7800's controllers can be used on a 2600. So, the statement about the 7800's controllers being 2600-compatible is completely true.

 

And while the 7800 was not initially developed as a competitor for the NES, the NES is what drove Tramiel and company to release the 7800 after shelving it. So, for better or for worse, the 7800 was Atari's answer to the NES, even if it wasn't originally meant to be.

[Madaracs]

So you seem to be a bit insulted at the current description of the 7800 and your answer is to take a shot at the 5200 instead?

What "follies" did the 5200 suffer from that were corrected via the 7800? There's enough "in-fighting" between the two consoles. Is there really a need to add to that?

 

I agree, if I were a big 7800 fan I'd probably not care for the NES comparison, but I vote a resounding 'NO' to the poll.

 

I'm not insulted in the least. :-) I simply think the description is inaccurate. The 7800 was created in response to the very poor sales of the Atari 5200. The 5200 was indeed revolutionary in many ways--yet it suffered from just as many (if not more) shortcomings. Anyone at Atari would tell you the very same thing.

 

5200 Pros:

• Revolutionary controls design. No one had ever attempted a thin-film button/keypad design like this. It has been argued that the 5200 controller paved the way for the modern controllers you use today.
  
• Upgraded graphics and sound: Only Coleco would be able to come close to this baby's graphics! The main goal with the 5200 was to provide a better arcade experience! It did that... mostly.
  
• 4 controller ports!
  

 

 

5200 Cons:

 

• Controllers were often DOA or failed very shortly after.
  
• Missed the boat on backward compatibility. In fact, the 5200 prior to its release was advertised with the feature that it would be backward compatible. The Atari VCS Cartridge Adapter didn't come out in a timely fashion and was an extra cost to the consumer.
  
• The game library. At the time the 5200 was released, the games were already becoming less popular. The other consoles offered more variety. (This was also a shortcoming of the 7800, BTW.)
  
• The Monolith factor. This thing was HUGE. Some might say, "and rightly so!" but consumers then (and now) still wonder where to store the beast.
  

 

@Jetset: I certainly mean you no harm! Let it be clear I don't disrespect any console. I own a 5200. I bought the repair kits for the controllers and gave them the love they needed. In fact there are very few consoles I don't own. They all have their place in video gaming history. However, the fact remains that the 7800 was invented to supersede the 5200 and correct it's shortcomings. Atari made mistakes! *shrug* That's kinda why they don't exist today. :-)

[Madaracs]

The 7800's controllers can be used on a 2600. So, the statement about the 7800's controllers being 2600-compatible is completely true.

 

The way the original description is worded oddly. It almost reads as though they used 2600 controllers rather than using new controllers that were 2600 compatible. That's the only reason I picked on that one. :-) Again. I'm just saying, I'm not trying to pick a fight. Heh heh.

 

 

And while the 7800 was not initially developed as a competitor for the NES, the NES is what drove Tramiel and company to release the 7800 after shelving it. So, for better or for worse, the 7800 was Atari's answer to the NES, even if it wasn't originally meant to be.

 

Yeeeeaaaahhh, but that's really not an answer... I'd say it was more of a knee-jerk reaction. Only too late did they convince Jack that they needed a console in the market to compete with Atari. Before Tramiel came along everything at Atari had been put on hold except for the 7800. That's how important it was to the company. When Jack bought the home division he literally halted the production, shelved the unit and said computers were the way and the light. It was the beginning of the end for Atari.

[Madaracs]

And while the 7800 was not initially developed as a competitor for the NES

 

Oh I meant to address this too: Believe you me, Atari knew they would be competing with NES. Grab a copy of Retro Gamer Issue 78 or Issue 14 where they detail Atari's knowledge of the impending NES launch. At one point Atari had even planned to halt the release by simply hanging the NES in distribution legalities. Sneaky buggers!

[+FujiSkunk]

And while the 7800 was not initially developed as a competitor for the NES

 

Oh I meant to address this too: Believe you me, Atari knew they would be competing with NES. Grab a copy of Retro Gamer Issue 78 or Issue 14 where they detail Atari's knowledge of the impending NES launch. At one point Atari had even planned to halt the release by simply hanging the NES in distribution legalities. Sneaky buggers!

 

So then the 7800 was an answer to the NES, among other things?

 

 

And while the 7800 was not initially developed as a competitor for the NES, the NES is what drove Tramiel and company to release the 7800 after shelving it. So, for better or for worse, the 7800 was Atari's answer to the NES, even if it wasn't originally meant to be.

 

Yeeeeaaaahhh, but that's really not an answer... I'd say it was more of a knee-jerk reaction.

 

Semantics.

[Madaracs]

So then the 7800 was an answer to the NES, among other things?

 

Not really. More like they intended to be first to the market. /HISTORY LESSON You're just responding to argue now. And that's not really what I was after. Thanks for playing.

 

 

 

Semantics.

 

That was the point of my post, exactly. I have your opinion and I appreciate it. :-)

[jaybird3rd]

I think the proposed description is a good improvement over the current one. Let me suggest a slight revision (based on information gathered from Curt Vendel's 7800 page), to try to avoid antagonizing 5200 fans:

 

In 1984, the Atari 7800 was to become the company's flagship game console. Based on extensive feedback from 5200 customers, the 7800 featured a more streamlined design, backward compatibility with the 2600, a powerful new graphics processor, and simplified controllers.

[Madaracs]

I think the proposed description is a good improvement over the current one. Let me suggest a slight revision (based on information gathered from Curt Vendel's 7800 page), to try to avoid antagonizing 5200 fans:

 

In 1984, the Atari 7800 was to become the company's flagship game console. Based on extensive feedback from 5200 customers, the 7800 featured a more streamlined design, backward compatibility with the 2600, a powerful new graphics processor, and simplified controllers.

 

I like that. :-) It improves the description while not taking a "pot shot" at the 5200.

 

And on a side note, I love this from that page: "The first MARIA chip was numbered GCC1701. GCC's engineers were big fans of Star Trek, so with the Enterprise being NCC-1701, they made their chip the GCC-1701. The final production chip: Maria II was GCC1702B."

Edited August 2, 2010 by Madaracs

[KevinMos3]

I would vote "yes" on jaybird3rd's revision, but "no" on the originally proposed revision. Can you change your poll to clarify what it is people are voting on? The way it's currently worded, I don't feel comfortable committing to a vote.

[Atarifever]

The original wording seems a little off to me too.

 

I also agree with the 5200 friendly wording from Jay. I don't like to see 5200 fans offended. We should all get along and take pot shots at the NES.

 

If we're calling it a response to the NES,how about:

"Atari's response to the shortcomings of the NES, the 7800 didn't always break and didn't ruin Joust."

Edited August 2, 2010 by Atarifever

[+FujiSkunk]

You're just responding to argue now. And that's not really what I was after. Thanks for playing.

 

You've been in a lot of forum flamefests haven't you? Rest assured, that's not what I am after either. I'm just discussing.

 

I get that the 7800 wasn't originally meant to be a direct response to the NES. I get that if Nintendo had any influence over Atari's decision to develop the 7800 at all, it was in order to have a preemptive strike. But despite that beginning, what the 7800 became was in fact a response to the NES.

 

You could even say what was to be Atari Inc.'s effort to lead became Atari Corp.'s attempt to play catch-up, and in the end, that's how the 7800 was treated in the marketplace.

[DracIsBack]

I get that the 7800 wasn't originally meant to be a direct response to the NES.

 

Both were meant to be responses to what was going on in the market.

 

With the NES, they chose to change the types of games people played.

 

With the 7800 (as originally intended) Atari wanted to respond to those pesky low-cost computers ...

[accousticguitar]

Me no vote in public polls!

[jetset]

 

@Jetset: I certainly mean you no harm! Let it be clear I don't disrespect any console. I own a 5200. I bought the repair kits for the controllers and gave them the love they needed. In fact there are very few consoles I don't own. They all have their place in video gaming history. However, the fact remains that the 7800 was invented to supersede the 5200 and correct it's shortcomings. Atari made mistakes! *shrug* That's kinda why they don't exist today. :-)

 

No worries. I honestly don't know why the 5200 even needs be mentioned at all, much less in a negative light. Even the "revised" version is taking shot, it's just more polite. I like the 7800, and think there are stronger merits to use in describing it than "hey, these controllers suck so bad you'll want to use Atari 2600 controllers instead, and besides, at least they're not as bad as the 5200 sticks!"

[atariksi]

...

[*]Controllers were often DOA or failed very shortly after.

[*]Missed the boat on backward compatibility. In fact, the 5200 prior to its release was advertised with the feature that it would be backward compatible. The Atari VCS Cartridge Adapter didn't come out in a timely fashion and was an extra cost to the consumer.

[*]The game library. At the time the 5200 was released, the games were already becoming less popular. The other consoles offered more variety. (This was also a shortcoming of the 7800, BTW.)

[*]The Monolith factor. This thing was HUGE. Some might say, "and rightly so!" but consumers then (and now) still wonder where to store the beast.

Point 1 is not entirely true as trackball and Wico were available. Point 2 is also true for almost all systems in the 8-bit era except maybe PCs. Atari 7800 wasn't compatible with the A8 nor A5200 and it's compatibility with 2600 wasn't as big of a deal given the flood of A8/A5200s out there. Point 3 isn't that big of a deal; it's better to have a 50 very good games than 5000 mediocre of bad ones.

 

...However, the fact remains that the 7800 was invented to supersede the 5200 and correct it's shortcomings. Atari made mistakes! *shrug* That's kinda why they don't exist today. :-)

 

All the systems in 8-bit era had some shortcomings because of time/money/TVs/etc. limits. In addressing better high resolution, they put in less RAM and no POKEY (and some GTIA/ANTIC functionality). So other shortcomings got added on. NES had to make up for its shortcomings as well via adding hardware via cartridge and some things it had to live with like a smaller palette. It's more like a tradeoff.

[CRV]

But despite that beginning, what the 7800 became was in fact a response to the NES.

 

You could even say what was to be Atari Inc.'s effort to lead became Atari Corp.'s attempt to play catch-up, and in the end, that's how the 7800 was treated in the marketplace.

 

I swear, it's like nobody reads the posts here. The 7800 was never a response to the NES. Atari Corp. was not trying to play catch-up.

Edited August 3, 2010 by CRV

[jaybird3rd]

Well, it looks like we finally have a new forum description:

 

The Atari 7800 came out after the 5200. It has a black, plastic case.

 

[STeSearcher]

That's about as short and to the point as you can get. Though you could shorten it by removing the offensive reference to the color black.

Edited August 3, 2010 by STeSearcher

[Atarifever]

I like the new description, but what about the metal plate? The entire thing isn't plastic and black.

 

I really would like to see the new description stay. It'd be a silly little inside forum joke. When people come in here wanting to argue Coleco or 5200 vs. 7800, we'd just point out that the 7800 came out AFTER the 5200 and, indeed, has a black case. End of argument. 7800 for the win.

Edited August 3, 2010 by Atarifever

[CongoZombie]

I did laugh when I saw the new description. Nice one

[Madaracs]

Well, it looks like we finally have a new forum description:

 

The Atari 7800 came out after the 5200. It has a black, plastic case.

 

 

 

That's great.

 

Edited August 3, 2010 by Madaracs