Do I want an HcX floppy emulator

[themrfreeze]

Hi all.

 

I just scored an original 1985 520ST, an SC1224 monitor, and the remnants of an SF354 drive, which is pretty much the same system I had back in the late 80s. The computer seems to work (I get the green desktop when I turn it on, which means TOS in ROM, right?), but I'm pretty sure the floppy drive mech is shot.

 

I've seen threads regarding the HcX floppy emulator, which seems like a pretty cool invention. And since I have an SF354 with a standard 34-pin floppy cable, I guess I have what I need to hook one up.

 

If all I want to do is play some old games, does an HcX sound like a reasonable investment? Any problems ordering them from the US?

[+orpheuswaking]

YES!!! I got mine today (i'm in the US) very easy transaction and only took a couple weeks to get here. (although Lotharek is now on vacation until the end of the month)... current exchange rate put it at about $113 shipped which was a little more than I wanted to spend, but it's the best solution out there (I have an SIO2SD for the a8 and the HcX is almost identical in use to those in ease of use and flexibility)

 

I don't think you would be disappointed.

 

Oh, and I also plan to put mine in a dead SF354.

[Thorsten Günther]

YES!!! I got mine today (i'm in the US) very easy transaction and only took a couple weeks to get here. (although Lotharek is now on vacation until the end of the month)... current exchange rate put it at about $113 shipped which was a little more than I wanted to spend, but it's the best solution out there (I have an SIO2SD for the a8 and the HcX is almost identical in use to those in ease of use and flexibility)

 

I don't think you would be disappointed.

 

Oh, and I also plan to put mine in a dead SF354.

As all my STs are STf/STE types with a built-in fdd - has anyone documented how to switch drive A: between internal and external drives? That way a SF354 case will be sufficient also for these models, no need to remove the internal drive mechanism.

 

Thorsten

[+rdemming]

As all my STs are STf/STE types with a built-in fdd - has anyone documented how to switch drive A: between internal and external drives? That way a SF354 case will be sufficient also for these models, no need to remove the internal drive mechanism.

 

 

 

I think you are looking for this.

Edited August 5, 2010 by rdemming

[Thorsten Günther]

As all my STs are STf/STE types with a built-in fdd - has anyone documented how to switch drive A: between internal and external drives? That way a SF354 case will be sufficient also for these models, no need to remove the internal drive mechanism.

 

 

 

I think you are looking for this.

 

Yep that's it! Thanks!

 

Thorsten

[+orpheuswaking]

As all my STs are STf/STE types with a built-in fdd - has anyone documented how to switch drive A: between internal and external drives? That way a SF354 case will be sufficient also for these models, no need to remove the internal drive mechanism.

 

 

 

I think you are looking for this.

 

Yep that's it! Thanks!

 

Thorsten

 

This is what I plan on doing for my setup... Originally I was going to put it internally to the STe (my drive died), but I was able to get a replacement Epson SMD-340 to replace the dead internal (I also swapped in the old faceplate so it looks stock). Now I just need to figure out where to mount the A/B drive switch.

 

If you perform that mod, could you document it, I know it looks simple easy but I'm not that great at reading schematics

[+DarkLord]

but it's the best solution out there

 

Hmm, I fully agree that this is a *great* solution - and Jeff and Lothek have given

truly awesome support to their work, but....

 

I can't agree that its the *best* solution out there.

 

I've got an UltraSatan and I prefer it. Mostly because it is treated

by HDDriver (or ICDPro) as a true large hard drive system. I know, how

many ST files are larger than the 720k "slots" supported by the floppy

drive emulator? Not many, I'll give you that - but there it is. Also, I

loath Windog and anything Microslop. I refuse to use them for personal

reasons. I like my Atari systems to stand alone, without help. You can

setup an UltraSatan without any other OS's help and I like that.

 

But if all you're going to be doing is games - then the floppy drive

emulator is absolutely a great solution!

[Cebus Capucinis]

Yes. Very very yes. No else needs elaborated. Get one and your life will be fulfilled.

[themrfreeze]

Also, I loath Windog and anything Microslop. I refuse to use them for personal

reasons. I like my Atari systems to stand alone, without help. You can

setup an UltraSatan without any other OS's help and I like that.

 

 

What do I need Windows for if I'm going to buy the SD card version of the floppy emulator?

I was under the impression that you just copy floppy disk images to it (like .ST images),

with the first being the menu system for the device. I should be able to do that with my

Linux desktop, shouldn't I?

[Shredder11]

Infact if you think about it, anyone with a CD / DVD writer connected to their ST/E/Falcon 030 etc, can put a disc in with all the .ST or .MSA images and then convert them to the native HxC format. So this would fulfil the all Atari requirement as stated by Darklord. Also there is the JayMSA program that can make images too.

[+DarkLord]

Apologies for any confusion here - but some versions of the floppy emulaters that

have been released (I was told) require another system/OS to "prep" the SD cards

before they can be used.

 

If you could do this on an Atari ST - then I remove all objections (aside from

file size - that is still a limitation).

 

Guys, if you carefully re-read my post, you'll see that I'm actually endorsing

the floppy emulators - I think they are really quite neat, and support by the

people that I've seen release them to the Atari community has been super.

 

I just wanted to point out, for accuracy's sake, that in some cases, like for

people like me - they are *not* the "best" solution. Here is a further example,

my 4 gig SCSI drive on my BBS has been going since about 1994/1995. That's right,

over 15/16 years of near continuous operation. It surely will fail, and sooner,

than later. Can I replace it with a floppy emulator? Nope - I really do need the

large partition file size on this setup. So an UltraSatan is the best answer for

this scenario.

 

I hope everyone understands what I'm saying, and realizes that I am not putting

down the floppy emulators...

 

Later gang...

[Jeff_HxC2001]

It surely will fail, and sooner, than later. Can I replace it with a floppy emulator? Nope - I really do need the

large partition file size on this setup. So an UltraSatan is the best answer for

this scenario.

 

I hope everyone understands what I'm saying, and realizes that I am not putting

down the floppy emulators...

 

 

There are a little surprise : The SD HxC Floppy Emulator can be see as an hard disk with the proper HardDisk driver .

The Menu selector software used this feature to access the FAT32 partition of the SDCard. So the SD HxC FLoppy Emulator as an hard disk is possible.

 

Some technical informations about this feature:

http://hxc2001.free.fr/floppy_drive_emulator/SDCard%20HxC%20Floppy%20Emulator%20Direct%20Access%20mode.pdf

 

Of course the drawback vs the UltraSatan is the interface speed.

[Jeff_HxC2001]

If you could do this on an Atari ST - then I remove all objections (aside from

file size - that is still a limitation).

 

 

Yes you can: Take the sources : http://hxc2001.free.fr/floppy_drive_emulator/HxCFloppyEmulator_soft.zip

rebuild them for Atari ST (with GCC for Atari ST, for example : http://vincent.riviere.free.fr/soft/m68k-atari-mint/). Someone has already do this for Amiga.

 

About the file size: You can create a floppy image of 4.23MB for ST with the tool

Edited August 5, 2010 by Jeff_HxC2001

[themrfreeze]

Well, I managed to locate a working Epson SMD-300 drive mechanism. Tests fine on a PC...reads/formats disks just fine. I hook it up to the SF354 IO board, and the ST can't format any disks. Tried 1.44 and 720K floppies....sounds like the head just quickly moves to the first track and immediately returns home every 3-4 seconds, then it errors out after 20-30 seconds. Bummer...the IO board could be the problem. I need to score a functional SF354 or SF314 to figure things out.

[mimo]

Is it a pc drive or an st drive that you have bought?

If it is a pc drive you may have to configure it to be drive 0 for it to work on an st

[+remowilliams]

I hope everyone understands what I'm saying, and realizes that I am not putting

down the floppy emulators...

 

It's all good, and if you are doing mostly GEM/file level based stuff an HD solution like the UltraSatan is the way to go. Also the solution for playing lots of games that have been converted to hard drive use...

 

If you are looking to do straight gaming/floppy (image/boot) stuff though, the HxC is the best thing since sliced bread.

[themrfreeze]

Is it a pc drive or an st drive that you have bought?

If it is a pc drive you may have to configure it to be drive 0 for it to work on an st

 

It's a PC drive, and I did configure to be drive 0. I have a TOS disk, and the drive (as well as a Teac drive I have) will boot the computer just fine off that disk. Neither will format disks though, so maybe there's a problem with the write circuitry or something. Either that, or the floppy disks I'm trying to use are throwing the drives for a loop. They were originally Mac formatted, but that shouldn't matter, should it?

[+DarkLord]

There are a little surprise : The SD HxC Floppy Emulator can be see as an hard disk with the proper HardDisk driver .

The Menu selector software used this feature to access the FAT32 partition of the SDCard. So the SD HxC FLoppy Emulator as an hard disk is possible.

 

Some technical informations about this feature:

http://hxc2001.free.fr/floppy_drive_emulator/SDCard%20HxC%20Floppy%20Emulator%20Direct%20Access%20mode.pdf

 

Of course the drawback vs the UltraSatan is the interface speed.

 

I use HDDriver - the pretty well defacto standard in the Atari world.

 

Hmm, I think I would miss that speed for sure - after being used to it.

 

Thanks much for the update Jeff!

[+DarkLord]

Yes you can: Take the sources : http://hxc2001.free.fr/floppy_drive_emulator/HxCFloppyEmulator_soft.zip

rebuild them for Atari ST (with GCC for Atari ST, for example : http://vincent.riviere.free.fr/soft/m68k-atari-mint/). Someone has already do this for Amiga.

 

About the file size: You can create a floppy image of 4.23MB for ST with the tool

 

Can you actually use MINT with 4 megs of RAM on a bog standard Atari ST? My understanding

was that it was painful, to say the least... I use it just fine on my CT60 powered Falcon,

but that's a whole 'nother ball game. Or could you just rebuild it on the Falcon?

 

Hmm, that 2nd link was dead here.

 

4.23mb is quite an accomplishment for a floppy image, nice! I'd still have to say it would

fall short of my needs. The Mega ST setup that runs my BBS has eight 500+ meg partitions.

 

I think its safe to say that with the exception of "specialized" needs like running my BBS,

the floppy emulator works great.

[Jeff_HxC2001]

Can you actually use MINT with 4 megs of RAM on a bog standard Atari ST? My understanding

was that it was painful, to say the least... I use it just fine on my CT60 powered Falcon,

but that's a whole 'nother ball game. Or could you just rebuild it on the Falcon?

 

Hmm, that 2nd link was dead here.

 

In fact the menu selector software (working on a 512k ST) was compiled with GCC : http://vincent.riviere.free.fr/soft/m68k-atari-mint/

So i think that there no problem to do this for the converter software

[yerzmyey]

If all I want to do is play some old games, does an HcX sound like a reasonable investment?

 

Not only "resonable". The ONLY resonable, I'd say.

If You don't intend to save, the get it. I have it and it's coooooooooool.

And by the way. It's _HxC_.

 

 

 

 

________EDIT_________

DarkLord: of course I mean a solution for 512Kb and 1Mb RAM owners.

Edited August 6, 2010 by yerzmyey

[+rdemming]

Regarding SatanDisk Vs. HxC Floppy Emulator, in my opinion you "need" them both.

 

They are two separate products; SatanDisk is a harddisk replacement; HxC is a floppy replacement. So they are not really each competitor.

 

SatanDisk is great for serious software and games that can be put on harddisk. But unfortunately lots (most) games/demos are not harddisk compatible. In those cases, the only option is the HxC (unless you hack the program to run form harddisk of course).

 

SatanDisk

* Hard disk replacement

 

+ Fast transfer rate

+ Big capacity per partition

 

- Not compatible with many games/demos

- Under regular TOS, only 8.3 names possible which can make it more difficult to find the right directory

 

Ideal for serious software.

 

 

HxC Floppy Emulator

* Floppy drive replacement

 

+ 99.9% compatible with games/demos that have no copy protection or have the copy protection removed (USB version has limited compatibility with copy protections)

+ Disk image can have long file name making it easier to find the disk images on the SD card.

 

- Slower transfer rate

- Disk image capacity is smaller than a hard disk partition (but can have thousands of images on one card)

 

Ideal for non hard disk games and demos.

 

 

Robert

[+wood_jl]

Agreed that they are different - Ultrasatan and HxC floppy emulator.

 

I'd rather play a version of a game modded for HD use on an Ultrasatan, but those are going to be relatively rare.

 

Agreed, you should have both!!!

 

I have yet to try my Ultrasatan because I keep playing with the HxC floppy emulator. However, I anticipate having appreciation for the speed.

 

HxC is for sure a winner, though. Biggest obstacle to an absolute newbie/casual user will be procuring extension cables for 34-pin floppy cable, and power. If the unit shipped (for higher price) with those and a case, it would be ready for retail shelf! It's not too hard - or I couldn't have done it though