Super Circus AtariAge (new WIP)

[Trebor]

Coming to the AA Store

[+sramirez2008]

Been waiting for this one. Can't have enough paddle games in my opinion. Game looks really sharp!

[Jinks]

Coming to the AA Store

To subscribers first?

[Stun Runner 87]

I am ready.

I'm getting all four.

Time to dust off my console.

?

[iesposta]

I have ordered this, but it still hasn't arrived yet.

 

It does work on Concerto with Pokey.

Correction: It does work on Mateos Cart with Pokey.

I was playing with a Gemini Video Game System Joystick/Paddle plugged into the right side Port 2.

The joystick right is the "button", but that's normal for that controller.

I would wire a switch to make the button work, but for one problem:

 

The knob turned full clockwise doesn't put the see-saw all the way to the right.

It stops about a player's width from the right.

Hopefully I can add resistance.

If I have to decrease resistance, any suggestions on how to do that???

Edited June 11, 2017 by iesposta

[Jinks]

Gemini controllers as fas as i know the paddles don't work with atari.

Well the 4 I have dont.

[iesposta]

Gemini controllers as fas as i know the paddles don't work with atari.

Well the 4 I have dont.

 

Mine always worked fine.

I'm talking the combo joystick / paddle, not the Atari paddle lookalikes from Gemini.

You need y-splitter to use two paddles in port 1, and another y-splitter for Warlords 4 player.

 

If using Harmony, they will default to paddles unless you hold in the button when powering up.

 

The Atari Paddles range from left 800K ohms down to 0.0 then they go up to about 58 ohms.

The Gemini Stick/Paddle go from 950K ohms down to 15K ohms.

Looks like if I add a 100K to a 20K ohm resistor the far right will go 0 ohms before it hits the stop.

 

Both "Paddles" operate in only a small section of their entire range, but CircusAtari 7800 is the first game to fail.

I like the short throw joysticks better anyway for maze games. The Paddles are not so solid but are easy to clean.

And keeping track of a splitter to play 2 or more players isn't fun.

I have plenty of Atari Paddles.

CircusAtari has 2 player same time, I think, if I read the option screen correct.

I wonder how that plays?

2 player same time Centipede 7800 is about as wow as I've seen.

[Trebor]

...You need y-splitter to use two paddles in port 1, and another y-splitter for Warlords 4 player...

...Both "Paddles" operate in only a small section of their entire range, but CircusAtari 7800 is the first game to fail...

 

In case it is being set up incorrectly, for Super Circus AtariAge, paddles should be plugged in Port 2 only. Joystick only remains plugged into Port 1.

 

See respective section from the manual below...

 

[BigO]

I have ordered this, but it still hasn't arrived yet.

It does work on Concerto with Pokey.

I was playing with a Gemini Video Game System Joystick/Paddle plugged into the right side Port 2.

The joystick right is the "button", but that's normal for that controller.

I would wire a switch to make the button work, but for one problem:

 

The knob turned full clockwise doesn't put the see-saw all the way to the right.

It stops about a player's width from the right.

Hopefully I can add resistance.

If I have to decrease resistance, any suggestions on how to do that???

Does it work correctly with other paddle controllers? If not, it could possibly be a problem with the capacitor in the console.

Which way does the see-saw move with the controller unplugged? That should show the position associated with maximum resistance (open circuit).

 

It would be difficult to decrease the resistance. If you put a resistor in parallel with the pot, you get a non-linear response as you rotate the pot.

Putting an external capacitor in series with the existing capacitor (which lives inside the console) would decrease total capacitance (same effect as lowering the resistance: shorter charge time). But, I don't think that would work because the externally added capacitor wouldn't get discharged along with the internal capacitor.

[iesposta]

 

In case it is being set up incorrectly, for Super Circus AtariAge, paddles should be plugged in Port 2 only. Joystick only remains plugged into Port 1.

 

See respective section from the manual below...

 

SSAA_Controllers.PNG

 

 

I was referring to this controller, which noted above, does have different resistance than an Atari Paddle:

[Jinks]

 

 

I was referring to this controller, which noted above, does have different resistance than an Atari Paddle:

Yeah i have 4 of those. Only the joystick parts ever worked. Will have to try again someday.

[iesposta]

Does it work correctly with other paddle controllers? If not, it could possibly be a problem with the capacitor in the console.

Which way does the see-saw move with the controller unplugged? That should show the position associated with maximum resistance (open circuit).

 

It would be difficult to decrease the resistance. If you put a resistor in parallel with the pot, you get a non-linear response as you rotate the pot.

Putting an external capacitor in series with the existing capacitor (which lives inside the console) would decrease total capacitance (same effect as lowering the resistance: shorter charge time). But, I don't think that would work because the externally added capacitor wouldn't get discharged along with the internal capacitor.

 

It works correctly with other paddle controllers.

That controller would need its resistance increased 30K to 100K to be able to drop

all the way to 0 ohms, as it now stops at 14K ohms.

 

That controller works with all other paddle games, so Bob's CircusAtari is checking for values way lower than any other paddle game program I have come across.

[PacManPlus]

Hey guys...

 

Try this one. It's a slightly greater range. (Pokey is at $450).

 

Thanks,

Bob

SuperCir(PAL).A78

SuperCir(PAL).bin

SuperCir.A78

SuperCir.bin

[iesposta]

Hey guys...

 

Try this one. It's a slightly greater range. (Pokey is at $450).

 

Thanks,

Bob

 

 

Worse.

The "try this one" above I just played on default difficulty options the guy got stuck on the far left and popped all the blue balloons one right after the other until the string was gone, then came down ?

The see-saw doesn't go all the way to the right. Still leaves about 1 payer and a bit more width.

This posted version doesn't have sound (Pokey) on Mateos cart. Pac-Man Collection does (so it's plugged into the console correctly).

 

I'll have to track down the one that works with sound.

[PacManPlus]

Ok, that's because It uses the Pokey for Random Numbers. If the Pokey isn't there / detected, the random number will always get the same value.

 

Let me see about the right-side issue.

Edited June 11, 2017 by PacManPlus

[iesposta]

This is the one that plays with Pokey sound, May 18, 2014:

 

SUPERCIR.BIN

[PacManPlus]

Ok. I definitely have the proper range for the paddles now. I tested the Gemini controller, and the New AtGames Paddles.

 

Here is the version with Pokey at $4000 (i.e. like Ballblazer):

SuperCir(PAL).A78

SuperCir(PAL).bin

SuperCir.A78

SuperCir.bin

[PacManPlus]

...and here is the version with Pokey at $450 (for the 'XM' and 'Versaboard'):

SuperCir(PAL).A78

SuperCir(PAL).bin

SuperCir.A78

SuperCir.bin

[BigO]

Ok. I definitely have the proper range for the paddles now. I tested the Gemini controller, and the New AtGames Paddles.

 

Here is the version with Pokey at $4000 (i.e. like Ballblazer):

And I now comprehend what was meant by "increasing the resistance". I was completely off track. Sorry for the noise.

[Jinks]

Thanks PMP! Hope all is well!

Back to 7800 gaming for me!!

[Andromeda Stardust]

I have ordered this, but it still hasn't arrived yet.

 

It does work on Concerto with Pokey.

Correction: It does work on Mateos Cart with Pokey.

I was playing with a Gemini Video Game System Joystick/Paddle plugged into the right side Port 2.

The joystick right is the "button", but that's normal for that controller.

I would wire a switch to make the button work, but for one problem:

 

The knob turned full clockwise doesn't put the see-saw all the way to the right.

It stops about a player's width from the right.

Hopefully I can add resistance.

If I have to decrease resistance, any suggestions on how to do that???

Oh crud. I used 470kohm paddles in my custom joystick because the stock 1M paddles seemed to twitchy and only ever used less than a quarter of the full travel.

 

I heard Gemini used 500k pots...

 

 

 

 

It works correctly with other paddle controllers.

That controller would need its resistance increased 30K to 100K to be able to drop

all the way to 0 ohms, as it now stops at 14K ohms.

 

That controller works with all other paddle games, so Bob's CircusAtari is checking for values way lower than any other paddle game program I have come across.

Mine go all the way down to zero, so will the shorter top range impair operation???

[iesposta]

Oh crud. I used 470kohm paddles in my custom joystick because the stock 1M paddles seemed to twitchy and only ever used less than a quarter of the full travel.

 

I heard Gemini used 500k pots...

 

Mine go all the way down to zero, so will the shorter top range impair operation???

Well my meter showed:

The Atari Paddles range from left 800K ohms down to 0.0 then they go up to about 58 ohms.

The Gemini Stick/Paddle go from 950K ohms down to 15K ohms.

 

So it looks like Gemini use 1M and Atari 750K. Maybe?

 

If you used 470K that should make the movement faster and the turning range smaller?

 

It all depends on how it feels playing the game.

You adapt to what's used.

 

Also if you concentrate where you want to move to onscreen you usually do worse than if you concentrate somewhere else and just get in the zone. Wow that's hard to explain clearly.

[PacManPlus]

... so did these work ok?

[Andromeda Stardust]

Well my meter showed:

The Atari Paddles range from left 800K ohms down to 0.0 then they go up to about 58 ohms.

The Gemini Stick/Paddle go from 950K ohms down to 15K ohms.

 

So it looks like Gemini use 1M and Atari 750K. Maybe?

 

If you used 470K that should make the movement faster and the turning range smaller?

 

It all depends on how it feels playing the game.

You adapt to what's used.

 

Also if you concentrate where you want to move to onscreen you usually do worse than if you concentrate somewhere else and just get in the zone. Wow that's hard to explain clearly.

Very odd that the Gemini paddles do not go down to zero ohms. So these errant reads were on the low end of the pot, eh? Mine may not be affected. Of course, I have a very good set of OEM Atari Paddles with practically no jitter so if my custom joystick doesn't work, I'll use those. What is the value of the cap inside the Atari? IIRC, one time constant (time until Vin hits ~63% of VCC; though the all digital logic may register a high well before this point) took up a large percentage of the frame time as well as vertical screen space (PONG Sports / Video Olympics I believe starts drawing the paddle at the exact point this signal registers as high so rotational angle / ohms translates directly to onscreen vertical movement) so there's a limit to how high the console can read the paddle within one frame's time. The stock paddles have a tiny amount of travel amounts to a large distance traveled onscreen, and I've never known an Atari 2600 game that reads more than half of the travel. Perhaps a game could read the full 1M range if it only reset the paddle once every two frames perhaps. The 470kohm paddle (to me) allows for greater accuracy at the expense of speed, and the stock paddles moved way too fast as it was.

[BigO]

The inexpensive analog to digital conversion method seems like it has to be subject to a lot of variation from one console to the next. The small amount of total rotation used somewhere in the middle (away from the ends) seems to me to be a way to deal with that uncertainty.

 

Having said that, I built a prototype (Circus related) controller that traveled through very few degrees. Using a rather oddball 7 Meg pot (I love that electronic surplus place) and a clever (for me anyway) mechanism to center the movement and vary the pot travel as a fraction of the controller made it workable. I credit that cheapo A/D conversion for being flexible enough to let this contraption work. If I do finish it someday, I hope I can make it work with a more standard value like 5 or 10 Meg.