N64 and newer projectors/tvs

[+kisrael]

So, my family's greatest love is 4-player Dr. Mario.

Unfortunately, Nintendo seems to have lost its love for 4-player Dr. Mario.

 

(It showed up in Dr. Mario 64, and then that game showed up on the Japanese-only release "Puzzle Collection"-- but it's not in the Dr. Mario for Wii (just a funky pointer-based cooperative game) and so I guess Nintendo has sadly dropped the idea)

 

Anyway, I got an N64 just to play this legally, and it works fine... but then I got a new 1080p Optoma projector, and it seems like the video signal is wrong for it?

 

I tried running it straight to the video of the projector, and through an upsampling stereo receiver, and through an A/V switch that otherwise does a great job translating formats (inputs of S-Video, Composite, or Component automatically becoming any of those as outputs).... no dice, just no recognition of a signal.

 

It worked fine on my old projector.

 

What gives? Is the signal so bad it can't be upscaled? Would a VCR do it...

 

So things I might try to get my folks their N64 fix on a nice big screen...

* Try a VCR... (not sure if it'd work, and annoying anyway)

* Get another cheaper projector (annoying to arrange, and expensive)

* Get a modded Wii and a copy of Puzzle Collection

* Get a modded GC or a GC and a freeloader disc and a copy of Puzzle Collection.

* Try getting an emulator and a ROM and appropriate controllers and running that through the projector

 

Any thoughts? Why doesn't the N64 signal work?

[the.golden.ax]

At first I used mine with a series of electronic gadgets obtained from a thrift shop. One was a composite to VGA unit, then a TVator VGA to S-VIDEO. This worked okay... if not blurry as heck. Then I got an XRGB2... that is a dream come true for older consoles on "the wall."

 

AX

[CGQuarterly]

If you have the know-how (or at least the gumption to try), the best thing to do would be to RGB mod an N64 and then use an RGB -> component converter. It is not an easy mod, though.

 

Chris

[roland p]

Any thoughts? Why doesn't the N64 signal work?

 

Probably because it produces a 240p signal instead of a 480i signal which is more accepted.

 

If you google for 'scaler 240p' maybe you can find some useful info.

[+kisrael]

Yeesh, those upscalers are like 350-1200+! Da-yum.

 

I wonder if a VCR would handle it? It's so unspeakably lame that a 1000+ projector can't scale this stuff, how hard could it be?

[roland p]

I don't think the VCR will have any influence.

Maybe one of those 'scart to hdmi' boxes as found on ebay can do the trick. They scale to 720p, which probably will be accepted by your projector.

[+kisrael]

Bleh, I dunno.

Love how Nintendo is driving me to piracy. Between region locking and cancelling a simple translation and then doing a half assed offical port, I have to go to extreme-ish measures. Sucks.

 

If XRGB2 wasn't all in Japanese it might be an ok option... I'm a little intimidated by it as is.

 

The whole thing is making me sad about classic gaming in general.

[CGQuarterly]

You can buy a quality RGB -> Component converter for $50 on eBay. It would allow you to play all of your systems in RGB quality on your new TV.

 

Just get this:

 

eBay Auction -- Item Number: 330452607900

 

And then buy SCART RGB cables for your systems. Some, like the N64, NES, and Turbo Grafx will need to be modded, but SNES, Master system, Genesis, Saturn, Playstation 1+2 need no modification.

 

Instead of looking at this in a negative light, you should see new TVs as giving people the opportunity to play their games in a way that will make them look better than they ever have, as long as they don't mind getting their hands a little bit dirty setting it all up.

 

Chris

[+kisrael]

Instead of looking at this in a negative light, you should see new TVs as giving people the opportunity to play their games in a way that will make them look better than they ever have, as long as they don't mind getting their hands a little bit dirty setting it all up.

 

It's hard not to see this in a negative light - here's something that worked great and look cool with an older projector. Now they're too lazy or cheap to accept a lower scanline signal. It stinks, and bodes poorly for the hobby and the preservation of older games -- for a long while you didn't have to collect older televisions and/or special hardware as well.

 

Greatly discouraging and irritating.

[roland p]

I just found an interesing page about 240p scaling etc.: http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/

[SRGilbert]

Instead of looking at this in a negative light, you should see new TVs as giving people the opportunity to play their games in a way that will make them look better than they ever have, as long as they don't mind getting their hands a little bit dirty setting it all up.

 

Chris

 

Don't forget there is also the issue of losing the ability to use lightguns on new tvs. I have no less than 10 systems that use lightguns and it's heartbreaking to think that there will one day be a time where it will be impossible to play them.

[CGQuarterly]

All the more reason to get into RGB gaming. Lightguns work fine with RGB monitors.

 

Chris

[+kisrael]

All the more reason to get into RGB gaming. Lightguns work fine with RGB monitors.

 

Yeah, but projectors are so much fun! Especially for a game that divides the screen into 4, like 4 Player Dr. Mario...

[monzamess]

After looking at some youtube videos of the N64 RGB mod, it hurts to say this, but I like the composite signal better. The N64 is relatively low-res compared to modern 3D systems so the RGB mode, where you can see every distinct pixel, is very jaggy. The composite mode acts as a ghetto anti-alias filter.

 

P.S. I bought an s-video cable for my N64 but the signal is incredibly grainy--again the composite mode beats it. I've seen other people with this complaint, something about some N64s having a bad s-video signal...???

[+kisrael]

I just found an interesing page about 240p scaling etc.: http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/

 

That looks like a very good page, with a lot more options than some of the other links that have been posted here.

[CGQuarterly]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GipNV9Ifww&NR=1&feature=fvwp

[roland p]

The XRGB3 really seems the way to go for scaling old consoles http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/XRGB-3

[roland p]

Did you have any luck so far?

 

I found in the article I posted some info about 'Lenkeng'

 

Then there's Lenkeng's RGB Scart to HDMI converter series called LKV360 and LKV361 (the 361 just adds S-Video support). Those two units are confirmed to work very nicely with 240p material, so they basically replace the overpriced and hard to get Coosis Scart to HDMI box. The output is again fixed at 720p, but both PAL and NTSC supported with 720p50 and 720p60 output. Likely the cheapest and easiest way out there to get 240p RGB onto the big screen.

 

Do you use s-video or rgb scart? I found a lot of cool stuff on their website: http://www.lenkeng.com It seems that their newer scaler support switchable 720p/1080p output.

They even have a scaler for the psp that zooms the image for full screen, how cool is that!

[Atariboy]

If you have the know-how (or at least the gumption to try), the best thing to do would be to RGB mod an N64 and then use an RGB -> component converter. It is not an easy mod, though.

 

Chris

 

It sounds as if it's a resolution isse and his hardware doesn't support it. Changing the composite or s-video output to something like RGB or component isn't going to have any effect on the resolution of the signal.

[+kisrael]

You know, I had the technology I needed right in my basement!

A long while back for reasons I don't quite recall -- maybe it was when I was coding my 2600 games -- I bought a product called "TVBox". It takes in composite, s-video, and I think even coax cable, and outputs up to 1024x768 VGA at 60hz or 75hz.

 

I'm not 100% sure what company made it, but it has kind of the same name and form factor as AVerMedia's stuff, so it's probably that.

 

The picture isn't super precise, but it's very good. And the nice thing about this kind of device, besides the fact that I already have it, is that it bridges ALL my old hardware with my new projector -- hacked Wiis/GCs and emulation on Laptops (or individual hardware hacks) wouldn't do that.

 

(Though I also JUST found out how nifty and easy HDMI out from modern laptops is)

[tz101]

There are numerous reasons to keep a good old CRT around...

[+kisrael]

There are numerous reasons to keep a good old CRT around...

Yeah, and I guess there's still the old TV upstairs. But projectors are so much fun :-)