Developers view old used games as similar to piracy

[Pixelboy]

The used game market is another reason why everything will be a download someday

Indeed. If we're at the point where retail distributors really earn so much more profit from selling used games over new games, then this is the perfect excuse that Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft need to make the next console generation completely download-based. And that excuse will be perfectly valid.

[Video]

I just have one thing to say....

 

OMGWTFLOL

 

New games are slagging off, cause most of them are tired ass rereleases of the same old same old shit, and it costs WAY to much, and on top of that, people are being nickled and dimed to death, only, it's $5 and $10'd to death. And, there's the little thing called a recession that's probably not helping.

 

Seriously, developers... get your heads out of your asses, release complete games, and don't charge an arm and a leg for it, and don't spend to damn much making it, and I guarantee they would do better.

 

When you sell your old games you can buy new ones.

That would depend on how you sold your old games. You certainly won't sell old ones to Gamestop and buy a new one (unless you have about 50 games to sell )

[Hatta]

Indeed. If we're at the point where retail distributors really earn so much more profit from selling used games over new games, then this is the perfect excuse that Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft need to make the next console generation completely download-based. And that excuse will be perfectly valid.

 

But that would just drive more people to buy used games. If people make more money selling used games than new games, either enjoy the profit you are making anyway, price new games competitively with used games, or get into the used games business. Driving away paying customers with dirty tricks is not the way to do business.

[high voltage]

You know, I would love for developers to do that, Activision come on now, re-release those VCS carts as NEW carts for my Atari 2600, boxed, with instructions at a fair price, EA, come on do the same, All Atari 800/C64/Apple 2 disks, boxed with instructions, fair price. Nintendo, sell us the NES games, new in box, NOW.

I'd buy them immediately.

[ComputerSpaceFan]

Activision come on now, re-release those VCS carts as NEW carts for my Atari 2600

I'd buy them immediately.

 

Count me in! No more Acti-plaque!

[Emehr]

The used game market is another reason why everything will be a download someday

I refuse to believe that. That's what they're trying to get everyone to believe to justify what they really want: download only content. This is a scapegoat. A trojan horse, if you will. The more they cry about this, the more people will believe them that resale "led" to them going download only. The game industry has gotten this far with a used market, don't buy the lie.

[Rik]

I can just see the implementation of making games useless, by some sort of technology that destroys the info on CD's DVD's, etc., after a certain amount of time.That technology exists already, but not on a large scale.With the way things are going today, i wouldn't be surprised that comes in, if it hasn't already.I've already given up playing PC games that use that [email protected]##d up registering to activate games, example of that, "STEAM" games.It's just becoming too much of a burden playing PC games, for me anyway.Not being able to buy used games really sucks, things are getting so damn COMPLICATED!!! .IMO, game developers made their money already from the sale of a new game, what is done after is none of their damn business.

Edited August 28, 2010 by Rik

[Atariboy]

Indeed. If we're at the point where retail distributors really earn so much more profit from selling used games over new games, then this is the perfect excuse that Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft need to make the next console generation completely download-based. And that excuse will be perfectly valid.

 

Too many potential customers lack broadband access and retailers that distribute their products and many consumers would resist the change.

 

It's going to be here eventually and digital downloads will be even more important with the next generation of consoles, but it's too soon for a complete shift towards digital distribution.

 

Maybe two generations down the road as they continue to slowly ween us away from physical media.

Edited August 28, 2010 by Atariboy

[godslabrat]

The used game market is another reason why everything will be a download someday

I refuse to believe that. That's what they're trying to get everyone to believe to justify what they really want: download only content. This is a scapegoat. A trojan horse, if you will. The more they cry about this, the more people will believe them that resale "led" to them going download only. The game industry has gotten this far with a used market, don't buy the lie.

 

I'm with you. I've been hearing for 15 years how the future is going to be "download only" and "content on demand", and although the base technology is there, I just don't see society eager to make the transition. We're constantly being told this is THE NEXT BIG THING , but the people that are telling us this are the same people who are selling this concept. This is a dream for content providers and hard drive companies, but I don't see too many "average person" types interested in the shift. At best, they've accepted it because they're told it's coming.

 

And I'll be the first to admit that download distribution has its advantages, especially as an alternative to rental. I'm not knocking the concept, just saying it's being oversold by the parties who stand the most to gain from it.

[Vic George 2K3]

If only games like Atari 2600 E.T. and Ninjabread Man existed solely as DLC...

[Crazy Climber]

The used game market is another reason why everything will be a download someday

I refuse to believe that. That's what they're trying to get everyone to believe to justify what they really want: download only content. This is a scapegoat. A trojan horse, if you will. The more they cry about this, the more people will believe them that resale "led" to them going download only. The game industry has gotten this far with a used market, don't buy the lie.

 

I'm with you. I've been hearing for 15 years how the future is going to be "download only" and "content on demand", and although the base technology is there, I just don't see society eager to make the transition. We're constantly being told this is THE NEXT BIG THING , but the people that are telling us this are the same people who are selling this concept. This is a dream for content providers and hard drive companies, but I don't see too many "average person" types interested in the shift. At best, they've accepted it because they're told it's coming.

 

And I'll be the first to admit that download distribution has its advantages, especially as an alternative to rental. I'm not knocking the concept, just saying it's being oversold by the parties who stand the most to gain from it.

I agree it is a scapegoat but it won't stop it from ultimately happening. I have said before, it's not going to happen overnight but give it 20 years and hard copy media as we know it will be history

[stalepie]

This controversy is almost becoming disturbing to me. It seems wrong on so many points. For instance, game companies and journalists are now using the word "punish" and "reward" as if they are some kind of law enforcement agency. Ridiculous! The only one that is going to be "punished" is a dumb company that releases a BAD product nobody wants to buy.

 

Another thing that's annoying is Jerry Holkins saying that buying second hand goods is the same as piracy. That's complete idiocy. Piracy is when you rob people by force, or in the video game world, when you sell knock-offs or unauthorized digital copies of a game. Trading and selling goods can be done person to person or company to customer: both are completely legal and ethical.

 

Personally I think there are two solutions: 1) don't change anything (the used market has always been around, and better stay around!), or 2) develop a new type of computer file which deletes itself after it is transferred to another computer. I suggested this latter idea to Richard Stallman in email and he told me it would just be another form of DRM. However I think, even if it is a form of DRM, that it is an improvement, because it allows you to let someone else borrow a game (or other type of computer file, such as music), and it allows you to transfer a file to another storage device if you wish to use it elsewhere, or if the old storage device is getting old.

Edited August 28, 2010 by stalepie

[stalepie]

On the flip side of things, I want to say that another annoyance I've had with recent discussions on this and related issues is that companies such as Gamestop, Activision, THQ and whoever are not "greedy" for wanting to turn a profit. This is how they stay in business and pay their employees! It's also how they make the next line of games.

 

"Greed" is when a person spends too much of their money on things they don't need. Or it's when an empire gets too big for its britches. It's different when a company tries to "demand" more money because the real person in charge here is the customer. If the company sets too high a price, the customer won't pay, and the company will actually make less money than if they had lowered the price.

[goldenegg]

Personally I think there are two solutions: 1) don't change anything (the used market has always been around, and better stay around!), or 2) develop a new type of computer file which deletes itself after it is transferred to another computer. I suggested this latter idea to Richard Stallman in email and he told me it would just be another form of DRM. However I think, even if it is a form of DRM, that it is an improvement, because it allows you to let someone else borrow a game (or other type of computer file, such as music), and it allows you to transfer a file to another storage device if you wish to use it elsewhere, or if the old storage device is getting old.

 

The concept of sharing digital downloads is not a new one. Pixelmags provides this feature for their magazine reader on iOS. You can let a friend 'borrow' a magazine for a couple of days. When doing so, it becomes unavailable to you.

 

I don't see this concept translating over to video games, as the developers want to sell as many copies as possible. Perhaps they can provide a feature which allows you to sell purchased content, with a certain percentage going back to the original developers.

[atarian63]

I definitely agree that buying a used game is no better than pirating it, but I also don't care. I buy games because I want a physical copy of it, not because I care about it from a legal standpoint. I really do think that the manner in which GameStop operates is riding a really fine line, at least from a moral standpoint. And they are the reason that developers and suddenly all up in arms about used game sales. When you go into a GameStop to buy a game, they practically bully you into buying a used copy, convincing you not to buy a copy that will benefit the developer. Why not just chip your Xbox or whatever and pirate the game, then? Either way the developer gets screwed. Like I said, I don't really care, but I also don't blame the developers for trying to find a way to remove GS from the equation.

 

Chris

If manufacturers and deveopers would leave some damn margin in game sales retails would love to sell new items. As it stands a $60 game cost $56-$58 maybe $55 on a better item... also no price protection if the manufacturer lowers the cost.. raw deal for resellers. Back in the day you usually made 35% before the days of best buy etc. They get thier kickback by charging to have the product in thier store,free advertising dollars etc.. Selling used is where it's at if you want to survive. It's a business decision not an intentional screwing of developers. We would rather screw the manufacturers and distributors!

[tz101]

When you pirate music, you receive a copy of a song. When you buy a used game, the previous owner no longer owns it.

 

Not true if you ever read a EULA that comes with all computer software these days. The developer "licenses" you to use their software until they deem it no longer beneficial to them. After that, they are free to demand a complete return (i.e. completely wipe it off your hard drive). The business model regarding software is truly one-sided these days, and our federal and state governments go right along for the ride.

 

So, with that in mind, I am guessing that all the video game developers are secretly wishing that they could demand you return a product you paid $50-60 for at their free whim. Not gonna happen...

[Gregory DG]

This is exactly why we're moving to an online model where you no longer go into a store to buy a game but simply download it onto your gaming device. Once you download it, you can't transfer it to someone else.

 

Blockbuster going into Chapter 11 bankruptcy is yet another sign that the brick and mortar days for games & movies is almost over.

[amiman99]

When you pirate music, you receive a copy of a song. When you buy a used game, the previous owner no longer owns it.

 

Unfortunately, I think that in the future, hard copies of games will no longer be released, and therefore, there will be no used game sales and no reasonable way to preserve games.

 

I've never played downloadable content on a modern console. What happens if the hard drive / console dies? Do they let you freely re-download the games you've already paid for, or do you have to purchase them all over again? Also this would suck for people who'd rather not pay for broadband internet. And as you say, it sucks in terms of preserving games. Users would have to make an effort to preserve such games beyond the point where the companies care about doing so... on private servers and such.

 

On PSN Network, like in my case, when I purchased another PS3, I was able to re-download all my games to my new PS3. The purchase was made under username, not specific PS3 unit. But...if in the future the service is no longer available and my PS3 dies, then I will probable loose the games.

[godslabrat]

This is exactly why we're moving to an online model where you no longer go into a store to buy a game but simply download it onto your gaming device. Once you download it, you can't transfer it to someone else.

 

Blockbuster going into Chapter 11 bankruptcy is yet another sign that the brick and mortar days for games & movies is almost over.

 

Yeah, but to be fair, blockbuster is dying because of their own outdated business practices. Even if there were no alternative to physical media, Netflix, Best Buy and Redbox would still be eating their lunch.

[endrien]

You know, I would love for developers to do that, Activision come on now, re-release those VCS carts as NEW carts for my Atari 2600, boxed, with instructions at a fair price, EA, come on do the same, All Atari 800/C64/Apple 2 disks, boxed with instructions, fair price. Nintendo, sell us the NES games, new in box, NOW.

I'd buy them immediately.

 

 

That would be no different than someone in their basement making a reproduction, you're aware of that right?

[Video]

The used game market is another reason why everything will be a download someday

I refuse to believe that. That's what they're trying to get everyone to believe to justify what they really want: download only content. This is a scapegoat. A trojan horse, if you will. The more they cry about this, the more people will believe them that resale "led" to them going download only. The game industry has gotten this far with a used market, don't buy the lie.

 

I'm with you. I've been hearing for 15 years how the future is going to be "download only" and "content on demand", and although the base technology is there, I just don't see society eager to make the transition. We're constantly being told this is THE NEXT BIG THING , but the people that are telling us this are the same people who are selling this concept. This is a dream for content providers and hard drive companies, but I don't see too many "average person" types interested in the shift. At best, they've accepted it because they're told it's coming.

 

And I'll be the first to admit that download distribution has its advantages, especially as an alternative to rental. I'm not knocking the concept, just saying it's being oversold by the parties who stand the most to gain from it.

I agree it is a scapegoat but it won't stop it from ultimately happening. I have said before, it's not going to happen overnight but give it 20 years and hard copy media as we know it will be history

 

Actually, hard copies will always bee around, because there is simply to large of a market that will keep it around. It may become the niche instead of the mainstream, but it's kind of like vinyl records, most companies still make new ones of those, it's just catering to a smaller niche market.

 

I don't see games ever getting down to the point where vinyl records are at now though.

 

This is exactly why we're moving to an online model where you no longer go into a store to buy a game but simply download it onto your gaming device. Once you download it, you can't transfer it to someone else.

 

Blockbuster going into Chapter 11 bankruptcy is yet another sign that the brick and mortar days for games & movies is almost over.

 

Actually, Blockbuster going into Chapter 11 is just an example of piss poor management. Games and movies are sold by everybody and their uncle. Now there might be some truth if Blockbuster was the only ones out there that sold games and movies, but even then, I see that as more an 80's game crash thing, it would go away for a while, until someone else "took a chance" on it.

Edited August 28, 2010 by Video

[Gregory DG]

This is exactly why we're moving to an online model where you no longer go into a store to buy a game but simply download it onto your gaming device. Once you download it, you can't transfer it to someone else.

 

Blockbuster going into Chapter 11 bankruptcy is yet another sign that the brick and mortar days for games & movies is almost over.

 

Yeah, but to be fair, blockbuster is dying because of their own outdated business practices. Even if there were no alternative to physical media, Netflix, Best Buy and Redbox would still be eating their lunch.

You made my point. They're outdated and the software makers are giddy with excitement at the decline of the brick & mortar stores.

[godslabrat]

This is exactly why we're moving to an online model where you no longer go into a store to buy a game but simply download it onto your gaming device. Once you download it, you can't transfer it to someone else.

 

Blockbuster going into Chapter 11 bankruptcy is yet another sign that the brick and mortar days for games & movies is almost over.

 

Yeah, but to be fair, blockbuster is dying because of their own outdated business practices. Even if there were no alternative to physical media, Netflix, Best Buy and Redbox would still be eating their lunch.

You made my point. They're outdated and the software makers are giddy with excitement at the decline of the brick & mortar stores.

 

If the point you were trying to make was that brick & mortar stores, as a whole, are going away... no, I didn't. There is a difference between "one company going bankrupt from inept management" and "an entire form of commerce becoming outdated". Blockbuster made a host of bad decisions. A non-exhaustive list would be:

 

• Counting too much on revenue from late fees
  
• Failing to recognize customers being more willing to buy DVD outright, as opposed to preferring to rent VHS
  
• Trying to keep big margins with high "5-day rental" fees, rather than cheaper 1- or 2-day rentals
  
• Essentially ignoring Netflix as a competitor, then making their own pale imitation, then again deciding to ignore
  

 

None of these problems were caused by downloads becoming more popular, they're simply an example of a company from another era keeping its head up its ass. On the other hand, Best Buy and Wal-Mart continue to sell DVD and BluRay movies by the truckload (literally). They're not in any danger of fading away. Our culture does find Brick and Mortar stores useful. There's a convenience factor in being able to have something in-hand as soon as you see it, and a social element to going out and shopping as a group. Media continues to be an attractive gift year after year... people *like* giving CDs and DVDs as holiday and birthday presents. Brick and mortar stores are great at selling them.

 

I agree that Brick and Mortar stores will need to adjust their practices to account for downloads being an increasingly bigger slice of the pie... but our culture will need more than just increased bandwidth to dispense with "real stores" entirely.

[atarian63]

This is exactly why we're moving to an online model where you no longer go into a store to buy a game but simply download it onto your gaming device. Once you download it, you can't transfer it to someone else.

 

Blockbuster going into Chapter 11 bankruptcy is yet another sign that the brick and mortar days for games & movies is almost over.

Best Buy, Walmart,Target still seem to do a big business in New Media items as you said!

Brick and Mortar are not going away, it's just some areas like music and games and movies to some extent. Most everything else will stay the same.

I agree, fresh,new ideas help keep them going. Old Companies like Kmarts,sears etc,not so much.

[Gregory DG]

I agree that Brick and Mortar stores will need to adjust their practices to account for downloads being an increasingly bigger slice of the pie... but our culture will need more than just increased bandwidth to dispense with "real stores" entirely.

I don't agree. It will probably take a long time, but eventually there won't be games to buy at brick and mortar stores. The developers are driving towards this and people are lazy. There are a few stalwarts trying to put on the brakes, but eventually it will happen.