I wonder why Nintendo wouldnt release beta/ unreleased games?

[jeremysart]

Not even talking about 3rd party titles, because I could see where licensing restrictions would get in the way, but what about releasing official info/ pictures or a playable polished Star Fox 2?

 

Or Super Mario FX? There is NO rom or screen shots from Super Mario FX out there, yet it was in development on the SNES for year before being abandon and changed into Super Mario 64.

 

Just a thought.. I know people would go crazy over this stuff!

[gamer2]

Not even talking about 3rd party titles, because I could see where licensing restrictions would get in the way, but what about releasing official info/ pictures or a playable polished Star Fox 2?

 

Or Super Mario FX? There is NO rom or screen shots from Super Mario FX out there, yet it was in development on the SNES for year before being abandon and changed into Super Mario 64.

 

Just a thought.. I know people would go crazy over this stuff!

 

Didnt they release Super Mario Bros 2j on the virtual console?

[jeremysart]

Didn't they release Super Mario Bros 2j on the virtual console?

 

Yeah, but thats not a beta or unreleased game, it just wasn't release in the US. I mean games that never made it out the doors, that were in development but got dropped near then end.

There was a huge line up of SuperFX2 games that dropped because of the eminent release of the "Ultra 64", such as Comanche (and Statfox 2/ Super Mario FX).

[OldSchoolRetroGamer]

I doubt Nintendo would release such things, they would see them as not having Nintendo quality to release them in that form.

[Atariboy]

Or Super Mario FX? There is NO rom or screen shots from Super Mario FX out there, yet it was in development on the SNES for year before being abandon and changed into Super Mario 64.

 

Why would they release a incomplete game (Super Mario FX)? Why would they release information or screenshots of a product that they don't intend to release?

 

I could see Star Fox 2 seeing the light of day someday (Much like Ura Zelda did on the Wind Waker preorder disc). But with the Virtual Console's lack of Super FX support with the SuperNes emulator, I'm sure it won't be on the Wii.

[jeremysart]

Or Super Mario FX? There is NO rom or screen shots from Super Mario FX out there, yet it was in development on the SNES for year before being abandon and changed into Super Mario 64.

 

Why would they release a incomplete game (Super Mario FX)? Why would they release information or screenshots of a product that they don't intend to release?

 

I could see Star Fox 2 seeing the light of day someday (Much like Ura Zelda did on the Wind Waker preorder disc). But with the Virtual Console's lack of Super FX support with the SuperNes emulator, I'm sure it won't be on the Wii.

 

Home to their long time fanbase if anything.

But who knows, maybe the "previously unseen development" that is on the 25th anniversary disk will include some screens of Super Mario FX. I am just very curious what it would have looked like.. how they could have pulled off a 3D Mario game on the SNES.

 

Star Fox II would be nice, just because the game was nearly completed. It was only dropped because they were so close to the release of the N64.

It could easily be released on disk with say.. an upcoming Star Fox shmup for the Wii? Or maybe in my dreams..

[jhd]

Other than the several Activision collections of Atari 2600 titles, how may companies have actually, formally released prototypes?

 

I also wonder how much of this stuff even remains accessible at Nintendo; as I understand, in the case of the Activision games, the only surviving copies were in private hands and the binaries had to be obtained by Activision -- they had long since disposed of the originals. They did not even know the proper/original titles of the games.

 

I have no experience in the game development industry, but I have some experience in dealing with companies and record keeping more broadly. For example, some years ago, I proposed to a local business that they hire me to prepare an official corporate history (and related advertising campaign) to celebrate their 125th anniversary in business. This was the oldest buiness in town, etc. Management liked the idea, but when I asked about access to their non-curent corporate records (stuff 20+ years old), I was told that it had all been burned a few years ago to free space in the warehouse. Obviously, the history project never went any further.

 

It would not surprise me at all if there is nothing of interest left at Nintendo (or any other developer that has survived from the 1980s to today).

[HammR25]

Lots of games die because they stink.

[Atariboy]

Nintendo has never experienced the corporate turmoil of a company like Activision, which has typically been the culprit with corporate legacies disappearing. And I think such things as all the ports of SuperNes titles on the GBA and many more examples show that they're preserving their assets in order to have them available in the future in case the company can profit off a specific item at a later date.

 

I know NOA is well known for having an archive which includes unreleased projects like SimCity for the NES. I'm sure NOJ has one that is even more indepth and likely has internal policies to see to it that such things as source code are preserved with backups in different secure locations (Much like any respectable company like MGM, Columbia/Sony, Universal, CBS/Paramount, and so on would do with their surviving theatrical and television assets if they don't want time, fire, and water to destroy their past and lose potentially valuable assets if something happened to one location).

 

Nintendo is never going to release a incomplete asset. I imagine Super Mario FX didn't progress further then something like Super Mario 128, a proof of concept demo to test ideas for the future direction of the series. I don't think there's a 16 bit Super Mario 64 sitting in their archives. Although maybe they will realize that something like an official company history chronicling their videogame history would be a popular seller someday and might include a description and screenshots of such projects.

 

But I do think Star Fox 2 will see the light of day outside of the emulation community someday. There's been enough people interested in that finished project where there's certainly profit to be made if the circumstances ever align perfectly, much like the inclusion of Ura Zelda for Nintendo 64 DD on the Wind Waker bonus disc.

Edited September 30, 2010 by Atariboy

[badinsults]

Just to note, despite spending a lot of time digging, I have yet to find any credible evidence that Super Mario FX ever existed in any form. I believe rumors of its existence stem from interviews by Miyamoto and Dylan Cuthbert saying that many of the ideas used in Star Fox 2 made it into Super Mario 64. I think this is one of those cases where some guy made the rumor on a website, it got referenced on Wikipedia, and larger games websites picked up on that, and now Wikipedia references those larger games websites.

 

 

There is no reason why they couldn't put Star Fox 2 on the Virtual Console, considering the game is 100% finished. I imagine that the figure they couldn't make back enough money to justify programming the Super FX emulation. The Super FX requires very specific timing and that might prove difficult to emulate. That said, Star Fox 2 is one of the most fun games on the SNES, and I think that it is a mistake to leave it hidden.

[Atariboy]

I've never seen anyone say anything about any elements of Star Fox 2 making it into Super Mario 64. It's well known some of the design concepts were reused in creating Star Fox 64 though.

 

And the Virtual Console doesn't have Super FX support. That's as big a reason as any why it won't be appearing on the Virtual Console. And I think it's obvious with the slow decline of the Virtual Console program that they're not going to make that investment now in order to release Yoshi's Island, Star Fox 1/2, and Stunt Race FX. If they had any thoughts of doing such, they'd of made that investment to bring Super FX compatibility to their emulator when the Virtual Console was much more of a going concern and the return on investment much higher then it would be today.

 

It's clear that some design work for a 3d Mario project took place in the same era that games like Star Fox were programmed, that the SuperNes in conjunction with a Super FX chip was considered as the platform for the project, and that many of the concepts were used when the project was finally developed for the Nintendo 64. Multiple sources from Nintendo have confirmed this information over the years, including in Nintendo's own publication.

 

What isn't clear is if even any programming ever took place on the SuperNes in the early days of the project.

[badinsults]

I've never seen anyone say anything about any elements of Star Fox 2 making it into Super Mario 64. It's well known some of the design concepts were reused in creating Star Fox 64 though.

 

 

 

Basically, the people who did the platforming sections of Star Fox 2 went on to design Super Mario 64.

Edited October 3, 2010 by badinsults

[jeremysart]

I imagine that the figure they couldn't make back enough money to justify programming the Super FX emulation. The Super FX requires very specific timing and that might prove difficult to emulate.

 

 

I couldn't be that terribly hard.. every emulator I have seems to run all my SuperFX games pretty well. Hell.. Ironically, I can play Star Fox and Star Fox II on my Wii under the homebrew channel.

 

But maybe we'll get lucky, and some future Star Fox game will see the official release of Star Fox II as a bonus.

[badinsults]

I imagine that the figure they couldn't make back enough money to justify programming the Super FX emulation. The Super FX requires very specific timing and that might prove difficult to emulate.

 

 

I couldn't be that terribly hard.. every emulator I have seems to run all my SuperFX games pretty well. Hell.. Ironically, I can play Star Fox and Star Fox II on my Wii under the homebrew channel.

 

But maybe we'll get lucky, and some future Star Fox game will see the official release of Star Fox II as a bonus.

 

It is incredibly difficult. Accurate Super FX emulation hasn't existed until about two years ago. Something like zsnes displays Super FX games, but play far too fast. Try the Super Starfox Weekend game as an example, the timer should be 30 seconds or less by the time you get to the bonus stage, but on an emulator you have way over a minute. Even using official Super FX documention did not make things easier.