Austin Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Oh dude... just looked it up, it's pretty bad... I gotta disagree about the Sega Saturn though, I thought it was a pretty awesome game on the Saturn... it's been a while since I played it on the PC, but I didn't really see any perceivable difference between the PC and the Saturn, except perhaps resolution... Damn... there's absolutely no question... the Saturn version is FAAAR superior... I mean, it's no contest. No contest? I'm confused.. The light effects and maybe the soundtrack aside, what's far superior about the Saturn version? Granted, Quake's single player has never been anything to write home about (unless you have learned higher level skills from multi-player, then single player becomes a blast), and the Nintendo 64 obviously isn't going to do it much justice. But have you ever played PC Quake? I'm trying to understand your perspective here, because personally, coming from having played the PC game seriously for a long time, the N64 version is the only console port that feels like it belongs (it uses the same engine as the PC one, and so it still feels like Quake). It is fast, fluid, and remains more faithful in many ways to the PC original. Disagree personally. I think Quake on Saturn was a REALLY solid effort myself. Probably would have been even better had it actually reached the PS1... C'mon, I didn't mean it like THAT... I do agree, it was a really solid effort. There were some effects present that weren't present in stock vanilla Quake, there were some cool hidden bonuses, new secret levels, etc. That said, it hasn't stood the test of time very well at all. And actually, it wasn't even very good for the time--that is, when sat next to the PC original it was based on. If you never played PC Quake, especially not a lot, you probably wouldn't have noticed a thing. However, the Saturn game was a sluggish mess in comparison, half your shots don't register, the levels had to be stripped down, the enemies look like they they are puppets attached to strings.. I could go on. A lot of this was likely due to Lobotomy using their own 3D engine--not the Quake engine that the original PC and Nintendo 64 versions used (could the Saturn even have handled the original Quake engine? Possibly not at a reasonable speed, who knows). So, what we have is a game that kind of looks and sounds like Quake, but doesn't really feel anything like it. The enemies aren't vicious like they are in PC (or N64) Quake, the physics aren't right and so many jumps are a pain to make (that weren't originally), the grenades feel like they glue to the ground (versus having any sort of natural, realistic bounce, like in the PC game), etc., etc. Sheesh, I need to shut up, I'll seriously go on all night about this, haha. Still, it's a great, valiant effort for the time. It probably shouldn't haven't been done, but it was. Personally, the whole point of this to demonstrate that, "Hey, if the Saturn couldn't do it full justice, good luck in the Jaguar having ever been able to. Unless you want it to look like Club Drive. In which then they would have had to call the game 'id software's playhouse: because this looks nothing like Quake.' Side note--I was a big fan of Lobotomy's stuff back then. I feel Powerslave and Duke Nukem 3D were much better ports to the Saturn. To be fair though, both games played more to the strengths of the Saturn and weren't trying to bite off as much as Saturn Quake was. There was still some sluggishness in both games, but they are far more playable and stand the test of time a lot better than Saturn Quake does. Powerslave/Exhumed especially. Also, I do agree that Quake probably would have turned out better if it was also ported to PS1. FWIW, Quake II on the PS1 looks and plays MUCH better than the N64 version, so you never know I'm not sure about "looks" better (it's been a long time since I played the N64 version), but it does play surprisingly well. Took me a little time to get used to, but in the end it played a lot better than Saturn Quake after I adjusted. PS1 Quake II is a solid game and it feels more like PC Quake II than Saturn Quake managed to feel like PC Quake I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaguarBrett Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I agree that quake would have been an awesome addition to the Jag! I have the Saturn Version, and think its a solid effort overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82-T/A Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 No contest? I'm confused.. The light effects and maybe the soundtrack aside, what's far superior about the Saturn version? Granted, Quake's single player has never been anything to write home about (unless you have learned higher level skills from multi-player, then single player becomes a blast), and the Nintendo 64 obviously isn't going to do it much justice. But have you ever played PC Quake? I'm trying to understand your perspective here, because personally, coming from having played the PC game seriously for a long time, the N64 version is the only console port that feels like it belongs (it uses the same engine as the PC one, and so it still feels like Quake). It is fast, fluid, and remains more faithful in many ways to the PC original. Well, I'm only comparing the N64 to the Saturn version. The N64 version appears to be lacking any kind of shading or texture mapping on about half of the physical structures... usually the small outcroppings, etc. As you mention, it's totally missing all of the lighting effects. The music is also incredibly awesome on the Saturn (isn't it like Nine Inch Nails or something?) The Saturn version is an "experience", the N64 version is just a game. I mean, it would be like taking half of the shading, lighting effects, and music out of System Shock... that's what MAKES the game in my opinion. As for me playing Quake on the PC... it's been a long time, I mean, we're going back like pre-911... even pre-Y2K. In my first corporate job out of school, we used to play Quake networked in the office late at night in between parsing through Pascal source code for Y2K compatibility issues... haha... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Well, I'm only comparing the N64 to the Saturn version. The N64 version appears to be lacking any kind of shading or texture mapping on about half of the physical structures... usually the small outcroppings, etc. As you mention, it's totally missing all of the lighting effects. The music is also incredibly awesome on the Saturn (isn't it like Nine Inch Nails or something?) The Saturn version is an "experience", the N64 version is just a game. I mean, it would be like taking half of the shading, lighting effects, and music out of System Shock... that's what MAKES the game in my opinion. As for me playing Quake on the PC... it's been a long time, I mean, we're going back like pre-911... even pre-Y2K. In my first corporate job out of school, we used to play Quake networked in the office late at night in between parsing through Pascal source code for Y2K compatibility issues... haha... Fair enough. The Saturn version could be an "experience", maybe if you crank the difficulty down to the easiest setting. The visuals and sounds are great--the NIN soundtrack, well.. there isn't really much music at all asides from intro theme, but the ambiance available is much creepier than the N64 version. You mention "game" versus "experience" though. The thing is, the N64 version never dips into the second category, but the Saturn version is incapable of ever being successful in the first category due to the wonky physics, gimped AI and iffy hit detection. Raising the difficulty of the later game keeps it from being a positive "experience", but also keeps it from being a good "game". It's an interesting scenario I hadn't really thought about before. We are clearly from different camps though, so now I at least understand your perspective. I played a lot of the original Quake--played competitively for years. As a result, it's one of those games I am most familiar with and (maybe out of nostalgia) still blaze through the single player on an annual basis, via the PC version. That said, Quake to me has always been more about the game--the technique (circle strafing, rocket jumps, splash damage with rockets, taking shortcuts where it doesn't seem like you should be able to, etc), but that comes from having been involved in the technical/competitive end for so long (online multi-player). I like to play Quake fast and risky, and the Saturn version doesn't allow you to do this--the limitations of the final product we have simply don't allow this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 The Jag couldn't and will never do any Quake version of anything that actually is Quake. Though I suppose the discussion is apropos to a ridiculous wish thread. kthxbye. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Dangerous Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 The N64 version of Quake II runs in a pretty high res due to the 4mb ram expansion pack. There is no way in hell the PS1 version looks better. I am also not convinced the Saturn Quake looks better than the N64 version. The N64 version has much smother textures and less pixilation. They were idiot's for going with a cartridge, gimping soundtracks and voice samples; though everyone here seems to love and prefer them for the Jag!! lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) The N64 version of Quake II runs in a pretty high res due to the 4mb ram expansion pack. There is no way in hell the PS1 version looks better. I am also not convinced the Saturn Quake looks better than the N64 version. The N64 version has much smother textures and less pixilation. This is one of those things that has little to do with gameplay and you stop noticing it after a while. We use to play MK4 on the N64 then we'dand played it on my friends PSX at his place. Actually it was at my place. My girlfriend had a PSX and we rented it. Right off the bat you noticed the difference in the graphics but after a half hour you stopped noticing it. But I'm not sure anyone claimed the PSX version looked better than the N64 version unless I missed it. My point was they were able to get something to run on the PSX with only 3mb of total memory or thereabouts that has double the PC requirements for the original Doom. Edited July 23, 2014 by JagChris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 The N64 version of Quake II runs in a pretty high res due to the 4mb ram expansion pack. There is no way in hell the PS1 version looks better. I am also not convinced the Saturn Quake looks better than the N64 version. Whoops I did miss it. I see it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) Edited July 23, 2014 by JagChris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82-T/A Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Fair enough. The Saturn version could be an "experience", maybe if you crank the difficulty down to the easiest setting. The visuals and sounds are great--the NIN soundtrack, well.. there isn't really much music at all asides from intro theme, but the ambiance available is much creepier than the N64 version. You mention "game" versus "experience" though. The thing is, the N64 version never dips into the second category, but the Saturn version is incapable of ever being successful in the first category due to the wonky physics, gimped AI and iffy hit detection. Raising the difficulty of the later game keeps it from being a positive "experience", but also keeps it from being a good "game". It's an interesting scenario I hadn't really thought about before. We are clearly from different camps though, so now I at least understand your perspective. I played a lot of the original Quake--played competitively for years. As a result, it's one of those games I am most familiar with and (maybe out of nostalgia) still blaze through the single player on an annual basis, via the PC version. That said, Quake to me has always been more about the game--the technique (circle strafing, rocket jumps, splash damage with rockets, taking shortcuts where it doesn't seem like you should be able to, etc), but that comes from having been involved in the technical/competitive end for so long (online multi-player). I like to play Quake fast and risky, and the Saturn version doesn't allow you to do this--the limitations of the final product we have simply don't allow this. Well, that's what I mean when I say music... the intro music is typical NIN stuff... I mean, it's cool, but I'd hardly call it music, haha... But within the game, there's an entire "soundtrack"... it's not like a pretty song, how like DOOM used Slayer and Pantera music... but there's still a soundtrack, and for the time, it was pretty damn creepy. Really, all the consoles blow in comparison to the PC version... but I guess personally I like the Saturn version for the reasons I mentioned. With respect to the Playstation version though... I definitely think the N64 version is better than the PS1 version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoGeoNinja Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 The N64 version of Quake II runs in a pretty high res due to the 4mb ram expansion pack. There is no way in hell the PS1 version looks better. I am also not convinced the Saturn Quake looks better than the N64 version. The N64 version has much smother textures and less pixilation. They were idiot's for going with a cartridge, gimping soundtracks and voice samples; though everyone here seems to love and prefer them for the Jag!! lol. Quake II looks better, animates better, plays better, sounds better and is more faithful to the PC version > the N64 version (which is unique). Quake II on N64 doesn't really run in that high-of-a-res. It just cleans up the game, but the textures aren't all that. It just defogs the experience... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 @ValdR: :-) My point about Magic Carpet was'nt it could have been done, more at best it MIGHT have been a proposal/something Atari wanted.As i said i've never seen anyone from Bullfrog ever claim it was coming, Peter M.just commented the Jag.hardware was nice, just needed more Ram etc. I mentioned Amiga A1200/CD32 versions as those at least 'we know' work was started, huge difficulties encountered and then scrapped and also coders of Saturn version talked of huge issues encountered porting PC code straight to Saturn, hence re-write of code for the Saturn. I personally could'nt see Jaguar handling anything like:Quake/Tomb Raider/Magic Carpet/Daytona USA/Need For Speed etc, in anything like form we know them, no matter who coded them or what engine was used and don't really feel they should be on Lost Game threads, as they are just pipe dream/wishful thinking material.. It reminds me of 16 Bit days, Mega CD had a conversion of Starblade, but had to resort to wire-frame 3D in lot of places and looked awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Regarding PS1/Saturn versions of Quake: 'word' doing the rounds in Playstation magazines at the time was that 7 different developers had tried converyting Quake to Playstation, just could'nt get decent version running.Lobotomy did say they would have attempted it, but were far too busy tied up with existing projects at the time.Regarding Saturn Quake:Preview/Beta versions of quake ran better (foes were'nt an utter mess as they were in retail version) but Lobotomy had to make big comprimises for finished version, they tried to 'make up' for this by putting custom lighting in on the Saturn version' Would of been interesting to see how Hammerhead (developers of Quake II on PS1) had handled the original Quake (think they also did Shadow Master for Psygnosis on PS1?). We also should remember PC Unreal was coming to PS1 at 1 point.Person i interviewed a while back was part of the team, gave some surprising answers on just how far along it got. I loved Unreal on PC, so atmospheric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhcocker Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Assassin - OMC Games Probably committing acardinal sin by digging up such an old thread but, as part of my research forST Gamer etc, various interviews carried out, i can clear up confusion on some of those titles: According to the first post the proto "Assassin - OMC Games" had a release (assuming this is red - I am color blind so is is hard to tell sometimes). Can anyone confirm this? I am having a hard time digging much up on it. BTW - Just reading the titles of these potential games, I'd give my left nut to see a release of them released in some form or another. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokeyguy Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Hi everybody. First post here on AtariAge excluding Introductions. It's funny this thread got started cuz I was looking at YouTube last night about this very subject. Atari User/ Retro Video Gamer has a 5 segments of clips of video games on YouTube that were unreleased for the jaguar. Just so you know I'm a casual gamer who decided to go retro with the jag. I'm sure most of the clips are ports from other systems but it is interesting. PItfall 3D was included in his list and Pitfall 2 was my fav from the 5200 days. Here's one of the links Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamus Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Stuff and nonsense. Those videos are nothing more than rotten garbage made out of whole cloth--with nary a shred of solid evidence. Thanks, but I'd sooner believe the moon was made of green cheese than believe a word from that ridiculous and contemptible liar. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Atari User/ Retro Video Gamer has a 5 segments of clips of video games on YouTube that were unreleased for the jaguar. Understand that you are new - but you might want to start by reading about the history of the ridiculously fibbing trouble making ass who started this thread (and who owns that youtube account among his many aliases) before taking anything he says to be even remotely credible. http://atariage.com/forums/topic/222455-intellivisionaries-episode-6-is-up/?view=findpost&p=2935570 http://atariage.com/forums/topic/172078-official-atari-age-jaguar-unreleased-games-thread/page-2?do=findComment&comment=3034200 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Where ever possible, i've put questions to developers directly to clear up status of LOST Jaguar (and Lynx) games, 1st as part of community interviews, then interviewing myself for digital publications and websites (still doing some now).Example of how what the press reported VS reality: Q) I saw in Edge that whilst you had no specific Jag CD games in development, your were planning CD versions of cart games, most promising of which as Legions Of The Undead, which Edge claimed the cart. version of, would be finished 'very shortly' and would most likely be a headliner at Atari's ECTS stand, they also claimed Skyhammer was Jag CD bound. Any truth in these claims if not? how did you feel about Edge making such claims? A) Jason Kingsley We had completed SkyHammer and were well on the way with Legions of the Undead. Not sure where Edge got it’s info from back then.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto1980 Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 found on an old magazine the anouncement of "SuperX" for Atari Jaguar they wrote "SuperXHierbei handelt es sich um ein sehr schnelles, modul-basiertes Motor- radrennen. Im Gegensatz zu "Super Burnout" sieht der Spieler das Areal aus der realistischen "first person"-Perspektive. Schnelle, texturegemappte Polygone bilden das naturgetreue Umfeld." that means cartridgebased, textured, firstperson, not-comiclike, firstperson motorbikeracing game anyone ever heard of this? or is it just supercross3d workingtitle :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoGeoNinja Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 or is it just supercross3d workingtitle :-( Yeah. It's this. It was mentioned here a little while ago, I seem to remember... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Looking at list i see Return To Zork CD - Activision.I've never seen anything on the planned Jaguar (or Mega CD/Sega CD version) and only seen 1 PC version review, 5/10 with reviewer moaning of poor acting, overtly linear gameplay. So....was the game really 'all that'? and was the Jaguar version finished as claimed and if so, i wonder if the reaction to the PC version killed off releases on other formats?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sauron Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 According to the first post the proto "Assassin - OMC Games" had a release (assuming this is red - I am color blind so is is hard to tell sometimes). Can anyone confirm this? I am having a hard time digging much up on it. BTW - Just reading the titles of these potential games, I'd give my left nut to see a release of them released in some form or another. There were a couple of demos of The Assassin that were released, but neither of them contained any gameplay, or much of what was intended to be in the finished product outside of the intro to the game. What little gameplay that was actually created was never released publicly in any form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynxpro Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Where ever possible, i've put questions to developers directly to clear up status of LOST Jaguar (and Lynx) games, 1st as part of community interviews, then interviewing myself for digital publications and websites (still doing some now).Example of how what the press reported VS reality: Q) I saw in Edge that whilst you had no specific Jag CD games in development, your were planning CD versions of cart games, most promising of which as Legions Of The Undead, which Edge claimed the cart. version of, would be finished 'very shortly' and would most likely be a headliner at Atari's ECTS stand, they also claimed Skyhammer was Jag CD bound. Any truth in these claims if not? how did you feel about Edge making such claims? A) Jason Kingsley We had completed SkyHammer and were well on the way with Legions of the Undead. Not sure where Edge got it’s info from back then.' Just like how Liard/Laird often claims Jeff Minter was working on a Star Raiders port for the Lynx. That was proven to be false when someone asked Minter directly on Twitter last month about it and Minter said he would've liked to have worked on the Lynx but he never did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 EDGE itself was corrected by Darryl Still who wrote in to correct a few 'facts' Edge had reported in it's news section (things like a Jag CD Drive 'blowing up') yet i've found their interviews with Jez San (who told them Argonaught never done ANY Jaguar work), ATD (X2), Core Design etc to be superb bases for starting points for deeper research. 2 Ex-Atari sources shed further light on Jaguar Creature shock when i emailed them, as did a 3rd source (another Ex-Argonaught coder), so that put that myth firmly to bed. Core Design talked of Tomb Raider starting out on MCD, a year before BC Racers was finished, so again, you can trace origins back way before Jaguar CD and shortly after posting the Jeff Minter/Lynx Star Raiders thread up on here, someone was kind enough to Tweet Jeff and we got the full story. The more reality we can, as a community put out, the more myth that can be disproven and less false hope doing the rounds of code for Lost games ever surfacing, as it was never started in the 1st place. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 It'd probably of been a lot more 'helpful' if the list that's up on Page 1 of this thread listed just where the claims of said games being in development came from.I collected a lot of 'scrap book' pages during my time as a Jaguar owner from Edge/C+VG/ Ultimate Future Games/Gamesmaster Magazine etc etc and some on that list raised eyebrow in a 007 fashion :-) The Gunship 2000 coder i tracked down never got back to me, nor did Team 17, so 2 dead ends on looking into Lost Jaguar game claims there.Alexander Holland was kind enough to confirm Thallion never had any Jaguar games planned, plus he shed more light on Jag CD Creature shock (then Darryl confirmed Atari had wanted it, but could'nt pin Jez down and then an ST Gamer interview source gave me the full run down) so sometimes i lucked out, got multiple sources giving info, sometimes i got nothing.It's a time consuming process, but slowly but surely wheat is being seperated from chaff on lost Atari:Jaguar/7800and Lynx Lost Games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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