Is there a new 2600 cart with Ian's book Slow Year?

[potatohead]

Dang! I never seem to get that one on the list. Xmas is upon us though. I'll put it on my want list. Love the cover and the title is one of the best there can be on the topic, IMHO. I gotta lay off the space operas!

 

Seems to me, some of the trouble communicating that kind of thing comes down to a lack of a frame of reference. I mean, people can see a great painting and see it as beautiful. Then they go make their own painting, and a whole new layer is exposed to them, likely they never see paintings the same way after that. Music works the same way, as does writing, etc... All the classic forms can be experienced at some level, and so the art is seen.

 

Enter Batari Basic, and the like, and one small step is taken. There is a lot of good activity in the micro controller scene right now too. Building up a board is a kick, just as writing some code is. After those experiences, a quick look back at the VCS, and some of the things done on it are easier to appreciate.

 

And so there it is, full circle. Video gaming is not yet recognized as a classic form. Someday maybe, if the attorneys will allow it

[Godzilla]

my only real beef with this whole thing is that I don't have $500 to get one at the moment Since I think video games and (for example,) 2600 related enterprises are art, I have no problem with what Ian is doing, I think it's awesome. Maybe he can donate one to my forthcoming museum? 501c status coming soon... finally working on organizing the museum's assets.

[Fangorn81]

Ian. I am glad you are on these forums!

 

I have been following A Slow Year for a while, waiting for it to be released. I have met with mild disappointment, though, since I would love to have the game on a real Atari cart, but could never afford the $500 limited edition.

 

I understand the logic in it, but it leaves many of us cart-less!

 

Would you have a problem with someone (me) buying the regular CD and booklet edition and paying to have the .bin put on a cart through AtariAge? I wouldn't attempt to replicate the Limited Edition cart labels or anything. I just want to play it properly on a console.

 

Or, perhaps you could release a sort of 2nd tier edition in between the two available now that includes a cart but no fancy leather cases or editions or signature?

[roberto]

I'm not sure "A slow year" proves that video games can be art, but it surely proves that Art can be a video game...

[the.golden.ax]

While $500 ain't happening any time soon for any new release for me, I'd love to have it. I can't wait to see the pics of the set that I may never own.

 

AX

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Being a homebrewer myself, I really don't like the idea of creating arbitrary rarity only to sell extremely overpriced.

 

But obviously it works.

[Hatta]

$20 Atari 2600 homebrew == I'ts just a game.

 

$500 Atari 2600 homebrew == It's art.

 

This is highly indicative of what's wrong with art, not what's wrong with video games. Art is more about status and marketing than it is about beauty or communication. If you want to do right by video games as a medium, focus on the latter not the former. If that keeps the art snobs away, good. We don't need what they have to offer.

[the.golden.ax]

$20 Atari 2600 homebrew == I'ts just a game.

 

$500 Atari 2600 homebrew == It's art.

 

This is highly indicative of what's wrong with art, not what's wrong with video games. Art is more about status and marketing than it is about beauty or communication. If you want to do right by video games as a medium, focus on the latter not the former. If that keeps the art snobs away, good. We don't need what they have to offer.

 

 

That said, I had a hard time selling my paddle art for $20, and gave several away for free.

 

AX

[Red 5]

The $500.00 price tag shouldn't be what everyone is talking about...

 

The amazing graphics that have been pumped out of the 2600 is what everyone should be talking about. I have never seen anything come close to that in any game for our beloved system.

 

Absolutely stunning and amazing! I am blown away.

 

 

[+5-11under]

The $500.00 price tag shouldn't be what everyone is talking about...

 

The amazing graphics that have been pumped out of the 2600 is what everyone should be talking about. I have never seen anything come close to that in any game for our beloved system.

 

Absolutely stunning and amazing! I am blown away.

That big red tree, for instance!

[Red 5]

The reflection in the water in Summer is great and the spring storm is really nice.

 

The shadowing on the tree makes it look more 3d than anything else on the Atari that I have seen.

 

Makes me wonder what could have been done if video game companies had put the kind of money they do into today's games back then.

 

1

[+5-11under]

Is that a squirrel running about under the tree?

/apologies to anyone who thinks this is worth more than $100.

[Miss 2600]

 

 

The amazing graphics that have been pumped out of the 2600 is what everyone should be talking about. I have never seen anything come close to that in any game for our beloved system.

 

Absolutely stunning and amazing! I am blown away.

 

I've only seen the trailer to this game so maybe I'm missing some details. The graphics are nice--I like how the rain hits the ground, for example--but I'm not blown away. A-VCS-Tec Challenge is one game where I can say I'm blown away by the graphics (not to mention the music). The pyramid scenes are awesome with details like the shadow under the running guy changing with the time of day. It is on the list for my next homebrew purchase even though the gameplay looks rather repetitive. I really want it for the graphics and music so I guess I appreciate it for its artistic value more than its playing value. A Slow Year intrigues me more by the art of the concept more than the art of the graphics, but I cannot justify $500 on anything but necessity expenses.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

The amazing graphics that have been pumped out of the 2600 is what everyone should be talking about. I have never seen anything come close to that in any game for our beloved system.

 

Absolutely stunning and amazing! I am blown away.

That big red tree, for instance!

The cart for sure has some fresh ideas, but the graphics are nothing special IMO. E.g that red tree is a simple static playfield, which a talented programmer can recreate within a hour or two.

 

Have a look at later games like Solaris or certain modern homebrews to see what is really possible on the Atari 2600.

[+5-11under]

The amazing graphics that have been pumped out of the 2600 is what everyone should be talking about. I have never seen anything come close to that in any game for our beloved system.

 

Absolutely stunning and amazing! I am blown away.

That big red tree, for instance!

The cart for sure has some fresh ideas, but the graphics are nothing special IMO. E.g that red tree is a simple static playfield, which a talented programmer can recreate within a hour or two.

 

Have a look at later games like Solaris or certain modern homebrews to see what is really possible on the Atari 2600.

I know. I was joking, as I'm guessing Red 5 was. I think the cart is a great idea, but even from an art perspective, I don't think the package is worth anywhere near $500. They're "prints", not "originals".

[Impaler_26]

Being a homebrewer myself, I really don't like the idea of creating arbitrary rarity only to sell extremely overpriced.

 

But obviously it works.

 

I agree 100%.

 

The concept might be neat but $500 is just a bad joke IMO!

 

And for everyone who is curious about the games on the cart - here are the ROMs for 2 of the 4 games:

Game Poems - Stately Hippo 1K (2008) (Ian Bogost).bin

Game Poems - Sunday Coffee 1K (2008) (Ian Bogost).bin

Edited December 1, 2010 by Impaler_26

[flammingcowz]

....these games suck!

[Fangorn81]

Well, I hope everyone's rude opinions on what is or isn't art and at what price someone should be allowed to sell something that they created doesn't keep the game's author from answering my question.

 

I think $500 is high, but I also know what it's like to work for countless hours and spend thousands of dollars on something purely for the love of it, and not ever come close to making any money off all your efforts. I created a theme for jailbroken iPhones, which has been downloaded around 14,000 times and i have received ONE donation for $5.

 

I also have never made any money (despite winning awards, and spending around $4000 to make them) from any of my short films.

 

But sometimes you just want other people to enjoy what you have created. I think he has every right to try and get whatever he wants/feels his work is worth. If you disagree that's fair. Not everyone can afford to give things away, and I think the limited run of 20 games is more of an attempt to be able to live off what he does than make his work unaccessable to the masses.

 

I don't see any need to talk crap about someone else's art just because something about it doesn't suit you.

 

The $20 version is definitely fairly priced, and while it may not have a real Atari cart included, at least he's made the experience of his work available to anyone with $20, not JUST the 20 people who can afford the limited edition. I'm sure people willing to buy one of the limited run are aware that they are making an investment in an artist they believe in, as much as they are buying a limited edition piece of artwork.

 

Ok, rant has concluded.

Edited December 1, 2010 by Fangorn81

[potatohead]

If people pay $500, then it is simply worth $500.

 

That's worth thinking about. The entire thing, book, game, etc... is what is being sold. Value is a interesting thing. Nobody buys things without seeing the value of them.

 

Selling then, is all about helping the person to see the value in parting with their money in exchange for goods and services.

 

If the only value is "the game", that's a different thing from, "the package", or "the art", and this is true for many things in life, not just games.

 

Now, a person who labors on a home brew, for the fun of it, has sold themselves on the idea that "the value" is in the experience of doing the programming, and seeing others enjoy the work. Those others, might not attach a lot of financial value to the work, because the author didn't. Then we have the person who works hard, fails to show good value, and gets little in return for the work. Finally, there is high value, high dollars, and every range in between.

 

This is where perception becomes reality, and how we choose to set that perception, significantly impacts our reality in these kinds of things.

 

Good lessons to be learned there, if we think about them. Value is a relative thing, and it varies considerably from person to person. Somebody, who has done the work to author a game is highly likely to attach a higher value perception to the act of writing a game, as opposed to somebody who doesn't know much about games, or maybe plays only new ones, or any number of things.

 

By contrast, somebody who writes books, teaches, and builds packages to emphasize the points of value that matter, will likely attract those people who see value in those things, where many others will see it in a negative way, because they don't see the value.

 

In the end, it's worth what any of us would pay for it, however, some will pay more than others. That's a common misconception on worth and value. It's also common to see somebody over value something, failing to communicate that extra value, annoyed at "nobody willing to pay" for the value that they largely have internalized. Works both ways here.

[jahfish]

Well, I hope everyone's rude opinions on what is or isn't art and at what price someone should be allowed to sell something that they created doesn't keep the game's author from answering my question.

 

I think $500 is high, but I also know what it's like to work for countless hours and spend thousands of dollars on something purely for the love of it, and not ever come close to making any money off all your efforts. I created a theme for jailbroken iPhones, which has been downloaded around 14,000 times and i have received ONE donation for $5.

 

I also have never made any money (despite winning awards, and spending around $4000 to make them) from any of my short films.

 

But sometimes you just want other people to enjoy what you have created. I think he has every right to try and get whatever he wants/feels his work is worth. If you disagree that's fair. Not everyone can afford to give things away, and I think the limited run of 20 games is more of an attempt to be able to live off what he does than make his work unaccessable to the masses.

 

I don't see any need to talk shit about someone else's art just because something about it doesn't suit you.

 

The $20 version is definitely fairly priced, and while it may not have a real Atari cart included, at least he's made the experience of his work available to anyone with $20, not JUST the 20 people who can afford the limited edition. I'm sure people willing to buy one of the limited run are aware that they are making an investment in an artist they believe in, as much as they are buying a limited edition piece of artwork.

 

Ok, rant has concluded.

 

finally someone that points out something important ... because what homebrewers do for you is more art than a simple quick "job". thomas is modest, but most of his work is brilliant and he would also deserve more than a few bucks of royalties. just think of the $$$$$$ waisted on modern crappy games nowadays ...

 

would be nice if you guys give ian a break ... if you don't like it, then don't buy it ... whether it is crappy or not only really matters to those buying one ... and obviously some people buy that set for more than just the gameplay ... because there is an idea behind it, a concept, goodies, etc ....

[Red 5]

I don't think it is worth anywhere near $500.00. I wouldn't (and have yet to) pay more than $35 for a homebrew.

 

Just saying the graphics are original and very cool looking. The ideas are unique and very artistic. I am really impressed. Not $500 impressed, but really impressed.

 

I would like to see the gameplay more to make a more educated decision, but it is really impressive.

 

Rob Fulop sold Actionauts for $90 a copy (still does I think). If I didn't buy that one for $90 by one of my favorite programmers, I certainly wouldn't spend $500.00 for this. But it is really pretty from what I can see.

[Crazy Climber]

This will be the only cartridge edition of the game.

Hey, it's your game and you can do what you want with it but if you are trying to get respect from the TRUE fans of Atari that play games on real hardware making the ONLY cartridges available at a $500 pricetag is not a very good way to do it. It's one thing if you never made it available on cartridges, many people do that for whatever reasons but only doing a very small limited run for trendy hipsters that have nothing better to do with there money is really a slap in the face to us, the true fans. How can I get excited or even support something like this? It's just too bad, such a talented, innovative Atari cart that I will never be able to play or put on my shelf next to my other homebrews. Oh well, I will make sure not to get excited about any of your other projects if this is the only way to get them

[roberto]

I have the impression that many of us here are looking at Ian's work from a "wrong" perspective.

Here the idea, I guess, was to have different media, i.e. the book of poems and the game, to work together and complement each other to deliver a work of art and not just a homebrew game with a price tag of $500.

Buying this would be like buying a painting or a special art craft and not simply a video game (that's why in my previous comment I wrote that I feel "a slow year" doesn't show videogames are art but that Art can take the form of a videogame, switching the perspective from "videogames as art" to "art as a videogame").

 

If I were a rich contemporary art collector, instead of a poor classic games collector , I'd definitely consider getting it. Overall, I think the intended audience is within the art loving crowd and not homebrew gamers. Now, how many art collectors also have an original Atari system to experience the cart on, well, that's an interesting question!

 

Cheers!

Roberto

Edited December 2, 2010 by roberto

[potatohead]

That's a big part of what I see in play here.

 

The "real fans" are those people who enjoy Atari period. Some of them have tastes that vary from simply playing the games. Heck, I know people that have a machine because it looks cool, iconic, and they never play it, and have a few carts, boxes, and things that reinforce the design imagery more than anything else.

 

My own preference is all about seeing a simple machine do stuff nobody imagined it would do, and it's about the minimalist nature of the productions on it. One gets right to game play on the VCS. Very little opportunity to do otherwise, unless one tries what Ian just did.

 

Whole new game there. In this modern, high resolution age, pixel art is something intriguing. Having the limits makes for some beauty that would be wasted on something contemporary right?

 

This kind of thing shouldn't threaten or insult anybody. It's not about you. It's about the medium, and exploring possibilities within it. Again, the fact that some will pay that sum for a work like that has very little to do with why others will buy other works.

 

Some of us just wanted to have a play on the machine. That's what I did, and it had a lot of value, particularly doing the mini-game compo. That was a lot of fun, and a interesting experience. I suspect much of that would be lost on the folks that might see this project worth something.

 

To me, that's intriguing.

 

A similar thing exists between people who are just into the scene, and collectors. Seeing those rare carts go for that amount is nuts!! I wouldn't do it. Why? Because the value isn't there for me, and that's the core idea right there.

 

There is no universal expression of this. To that guy who wants a full set, it's worth a lot, even if just for the bragging rights to deny the other guy his set!

 

(and isn't that interesting where "full set" collectors are concerned and this project??)

 

I know I'm sure not threatened by the collectors, nor would I consider them "partial fans", just as I wouldn't diminish the person who grabs the game binaries and jams emulation only. Are they less of a fan, or is their value perception just different?

 

The real slap in the face comes from believing that one's actions entitle them to some consideration, when those actions are not really connected to the authors work.

 

In the end, the creators call the shots. Doing that has some value, and depending on what that is, they will have some expectations for a return on that value, which may range from a nice note saying, "great job, I love this!!", to maybe $500, and everything in between.

 

Look at Scott! He knocked out the "Star Castle" project because he loves the building, and the challenge, and values that labor in specific ways. The exposition of his work was a great return, though a lot of people felt insulted. Why? Where is the entitlement in that? The labor was not theirs! Now, it's good that there is demand, and it's good that people labor to meet it, but... in the end, it's the value for the creator that sees the work done. Nobody makes a living on this stuff, and that's kind of where art begins anyway, and simple labor ends. I think that's worth some thought, particularly given how small the scene really is, compared to gaming in general.

 

Doesn't the idea of a project returning $500 intrigue just a few of you? It does me. That sum of money generally isn't associated with a casual purchase. So, what about the next 30 years? Will it endure like this, degrade, or grow and expand? Seems to me, part of the story lies in a project like this, and that's just interesting like the whole story is interesting. (maybe that's a part of why some would pay --to continue the story! Anyone think about that?)

 

IMHO, expanding the scope of possible value is only a good thing, because it simply expands on the motivations for creators, and in the end, that means more works and possibilities for everybody who may take a interest in the thing.

[Crazy Climber]

That's a big part of what I see in play here.

 

The "real fans" are those people who enjoy Atari period. Some of them have tastes that vary from simply playing the games. Heck, I know people that have a machine because it looks cool, iconic, and they never play it, and have a few carts, boxes, and things that reinforce the design imagery more than anything else.

 

My own preference is all about seeing a simple machine do stuff nobody imagined it would do, and it's about the minimalist nature of the productions on it. One gets right to game play on the VCS. Very little opportunity to do otherwise, unless one tries what Ian just did.

 

Whole new game there. In this modern, high resolution age, pixel art is something intriguing. Having the limits makes for some beauty that would be wasted on something contemporary right?

 

This kind of thing shouldn't threaten or insult anybody. It's not about you. It's about the medium, and exploring possibilities within it. Again, the fact that some will pay that sum for a work like that has very little to do with why others will buy other works.

 

Some of us just wanted to have a play on the machine. That's what I did, and it had a lot of value, particularly doing the mini-game compo. That was a lot of fun, and a interesting experience. I suspect much of that would be lost on the folks that might see this project worth something.

 

To me, that's intriguing.

 

A similar thing exists between people who are just into the scene, and collectors. Seeing those rare carts go for that amount is nuts!! I wouldn't do it. Why? Because the value isn't there for me, and that's the core idea right there.

 

There is no universal expression of this. To that guy who wants a full set, it's worth a lot, even if just for the bragging rights to deny the other guy his set!

 

(and isn't that interesting where "full set" collectors are concerned and this project??)

 

I know I'm sure not threatened by the collectors, nor would I consider them "partial fans", just as I wouldn't diminish the person who grabs the game binaries and jams emulation only. Are they less of a fan, or is their value perception just different?

 

The real slap in the face comes from believing that one's actions entitle them to some consideration, when those actions are not really connected to the authors work.

 

In the end, the creators call the shots. Doing that has some value, and depending on what that is, they will have some expectations for a return on that value, which may range from a nice note saying, "great job, I love this!!", to maybe $500, and everything in between.

 

Look at Scott! He knocked out the "Star Castle" project because he loves the building, and the challenge, and values that labor in specific ways. The exposition of his work was a great return, though a lot of people felt insulted. Why? Where is the entitlement in that? The labor was not theirs! Now, it's good that there is demand, and it's good that people labor to meet it, but... in the end, it's the value for the creator that sees the work done. Nobody makes a living on this stuff, and that's kind of where art begins anyway, and simple labor ends. I think that's worth some thought, particularly given how small the scene really is, compared to gaming in general.

 

Doesn't the idea of a project returning $500 intrigue just a few of you? It does me. That sum of money generally isn't associated with a casual purchase. So, what about the next 30 years? Will it endure like this, degrade, or grow and expand? Seems to me, part of the story lies in a project like this, and that's just interesting like the whole story is interesting. (maybe that's a part of why some would pay --to continue the story! Anyone think about that?)

 

IMHO, expanding the scope of possible value is only a good thing, because it simply expands on the motivations for creators, and in the end, that means more works and possibilities for everybody who may take a interest in the thing.

There are all kinds of true fans, what I am talking about is the true fans that play on REAL hardware. I find it lame because he DID actually release it on cartridge, the kind of thing us fans that like to play on real hardware go apeshit over, and then decided the only way to get it is going to cost $500. It's just kind of a strange way to do it because most of the people that will actually appreciate the game on an actual cartridge will not be able to get it due to price. In his defense though he did not post it here for sale, further proving he is not really interested in our support of a cartridge release, which is fine but for an enthusiust/collector like myself that plays on real hardware, I can't get into this or support it if thats the only way he is going to do his cartridge releases.