Whatever happened to Boulder Dash?

[godzillajoe]

Did this ever get finished? Was it abandoned? A problem with copyright?

[eshu]

Did this ever get finished? Was it abandoned? A problem with copyright?

 

Abandoned as far as I know...

 

http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/135909-dead/

[godzillajoe]

Bummer. Two games I was realy looking forward to (along with Man Goes Down)

[+Propane13]

One of the things listed as missing in that thread was:

 

"A title/selection screen needs doing. Also intermission screens."

 

It might be fun to put together a mockup, just to see "what could have been".

A lot of new people on these boards have gotten really good at making such things.

 

-John

[+batari]

It also runs on a Melody hardware with a slightly more powerful chip installed on the board. I have offered to provide the boards should the time ever come. The game needs a bit of spit and polish and has a few bugs, so I'd say it's 75-90% if I had to guess.

[Crazy Climber]

It also runs on a Melody hardware with a slightly more powerful chip installed on the board. I have offered to provide the boards should the time ever come. The game needs a bit of spit and polish and has a few bugs, so I'd say it's 75-90% if I had to guess.

Although I really have no idea the type of work the last 10% to 25% of programming an Atari 2600 game involves, I am amazed it was abondonded being this close to completion.

[+batari]

It also runs on a Melody hardware with a slightly more powerful chip installed on the board. I have offered to provide the boards should the time ever come. The game needs a bit of spit and polish and has a few bugs, so I'd say it's 75-90% if I had to guess.

Although I really have no idea the type of work the last 10% to 25% of programming an Atari 2600 game involves, I am amazed it was abondonded being this close to completion.

A lot of projects stall at this stage. The "fun" part of programming a game, at least for me, is the game mechanics. The last 25% is usually the fluff that makes the game more aesthetically pleasing bit is much less enjoyable to program.

[Crazy Climber]

It also runs on a Melody hardware with a slightly more powerful chip installed on the board. I have offered to provide the boards should the time ever come. The game needs a bit of spit and polish and has a few bugs, so I'd say it's 75-90% if I had to guess.

Although I really have no idea the type of work the last 10% to 25% of programming an Atari 2600 game involves, I am amazed it was abondonded being this close to completion.

A lot of projects stall at this stage. The "fun" part of programming a game, at least for me, is the game mechanics. The last 25% is usually the fluff that makes the game more aesthetically pleasing bit is much less enjoyable to program.

I see, how many hours (on average) would you say go in to the last 25% of your typical Atari 2600 homebrew?

[+Propane13]

For me, the last 10% is utter hell.

In doing Mean Santa, I kept a list of what bugs/features were "open".

 

Mid-project, there was a nasty bug that I didn't understand, and realized it would take a LONG time to debug and track down.

In the end, it was a 3 byte fix. To me it's much more enjoyable to fix the items that you have a plan for than to solve those that you have no idea about. When they're solved, breathing a sigh of relief is nice, but the payoff is terrible-- 3 bytes of code for 1-2 days straight of debugging.

And, in the end, the solution could be something that solves an edge case that only the programmer would notice.

 

Most projects get to this wall point where it's no longer fun.

My side-scroller for the Atari 7800 came about when I had a brilliant idea at 1am some night after college.

I coded until 3am, and was like "yes! Yes, this will totally work!"

I passed out, and woke up late the next day. I had something that was working.

But, when I looked at the code, I had no idea what it did.

When I picked it up again in 2009, I STILL don't know how it works.

I was able to figure everything else out and comment it, but my main kernel is in the "don't understand too well, don't touch" phase.

If I ever have to touch it again, I will probably go nuts.

 

Arkanoid 7800 reached a similar point. It's functional, but there were 2 nasty issues.

One is that sometimes, the collisions between the balls and bricks is unpredictable. After putting in a ton of band-aid code that did nothing, I'm still confused by it. Sure, most people don't notice it, but when it happens, it bugs me something crazy.

Additionally, I had most features set up, with the exception of the splitter ball (where it splits into 3).

I realized when I got to that point that I may have to redo my drawing routine to cover it.

It's things like that, that hurt. And, it's tough to explain cases like that to those who haven't been through it.

To work to fix 3 bytes of code can give you a MAJOR feeling of accomplishment.

But, when presented to the community, and they don't notice, it's kinda sucky.

 

From what I read on the thread, some logic redesign would have to happen.

I can't imagine the pain of overhauling that code. And, I can understand the developer really wanting to do so.

 

It's those sorts of situations where I found that I'm inspired by others.

If someone says they really like what I'm doing, or if they contribute somehow, it makes it more worth it.

That's kind of why I think it would be fun to try to make some mockups for the opening screen and some cutscenes.

Not sure it would make any difference, but it could be enough to help relaunch this project again at some point.

I know if I was sick of doing a game, and someone helped me to get the finishing touches over with, it might be enough incentive to make me fix that one major bug, since all the rest of the pieces were available. But, I also would understand that even if such things were constructed and available, people have lives and other projects, meaning that sometimes projects stay abandoned until people are ready to pick them up again (if ever).

 

Anyway, yes, the final percentages of code completion are usually very tough, and low on the fun factor.

 

-John

[+TrekMD]

John, do you think the added features of the XM unit will help you complete these two 7800 games you worked on?

[+Propane13]

John, do you think the added features of the XM unit will help you complete these two 7800 games you worked on?

 

I plan to just complete them without it for now.

One of the reasons that programming the Atari is fun is the challenge of limited hardware.

And, I haven't officially "released" a 7800 game yet, so I want my first one out-of-the-box to be something they could have released "back in the day".

 

Anyhoo, I don't want to hijack the thread-- I can comment in one of my 7800 forum threads next time there's an update (which I have a feeling may be happening in the next few months), or you can PM me.

 

After all, the discussion is about BD, which was amazing stuff!

 

-John

[maiki]

One of the reasons that programming the Atari is fun is the challenge of limited hardware.

 

Yes, and that's why I don't quite get why, in 2010, there is such a buzz around 7800 expansion module and (my god) new software written for it instead of focusing on original hardware...

[Crazy Climber]

One of the reasons that programming the Atari is fun is the challenge of limited hardware.

 

Yes, and that's why I don't quite get why, in 2010, there is such a buzz around 7800 expansion module and (my god) new software written for it instead of focusing on original hardware...

It's something new and exciting! Just try to pretend you are 12 again. Party pooper

[Tubular Gearhead]

Yes, and that's why I don't quite get why, in 2010, there is such a buzz around 7800 expansion module and (my god) new software written for it instead of focusing on original hardware...

 

The question "why" has been answered in the many threads about the 7800 expansion module. This project addresses many of the shortcommings and unrealised dreams of the 7800 using old original drawings and ideas that could/should have happened back in 1984 under different management, budget, etc...

 

When one really gets into all the history and promiss of the 7800, you can really see how this new project is very much in alignment with what could have been. And now we will have it!

 

Oops, sorry to highjack this post- I guess we should get back on track...

Edited December 6, 2010 by Tubular Gearhead

[+TrekMD]

Yes, and that's why I don't quite get why, in 2010, there is such a buzz around 7800 expansion module and (my god) new software written for it instead of focusing on original hardware...

 

The question "why" has been answered in the many threads about the 7800 expansion module. This project addresses many of the shortcommings and unrealised dreams of the 7800 using old original drawings and ideas that could/should have happened back in 1984 under different management, budget, etc...

 

When one really gets into all the history and promiss of the 7800, you can really see how this new project is very much in alignment with what could have been. And now we will have it!

 

Oops, sorry to highjack this post- I guess we should get back on track...

 

+1 Couldn't have said it better myself.

[ZylonBane]

When one really gets into all the history and promiss of the 7800, you can really see how this new project is very much in alignment with what could have been. And now we will have it!

Where "it" is "Not a 7800". Hooray for intentionally fragmenting the player and programmer base, I guess.

[Tubular Gearhead]

Where "it" is "Not a 7800". Hooray for intentionally fragmenting the player and programmer base, I guess.

 

Seriously guys, how is this any different than the Supercharger for the 2600 when that came out? Back then, you want to play "The Official Frogger" or other supercharger games, buy the Supercharger. Same principal. The 7800XM will only increase the possibilities available for the 7800. And just like the example above, the games can be made larger and more elaborate...

 

I see all of this exposure as only increasing the fan base, not dividing it.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Seriously guys, how is this any different than the Supercharger for the 2600 when that came out? Back then, you want to play "The Official Frogger" or other supercharger games, buy the Supercharger. Same principal. The 7800XM will only increase the possibilities available for the 7800. And just like the example above, the games can be made larger and more elaborate...

 

I see all of this exposure as only increasing the fan base, not dividing it.

IMO there is a big difference is the technology used was not available or affordable back then.

 

The Supercharger was, so it is legit. RAM+ was, so it is legit. The DPC used in Pitfall! 2 was, so it is legit.

 

But massive memory or a (co)processor are different. Those became available and affordable just now. They are like putting a new chassis and engine to a old Ford-T model.

[BigO]

They are like putting a new chassis and engine to a old Ford-T model.

. . . an activity that is undertaken daily by thousands upon thousands of enthusiastic hobbyists and professionals. Edited December 7, 2010 by BigO

[Thomas Jentzsch]

They are like putting a new chassis and engine to a old Ford-T model.

. . . an activity that is undertaken daily by thousands upon thousands of enthusiastic hobbyists and professionals.

Nothing wrong with that. And there are also lots of people who restore and keep them in original state. Nothing wrong with that too.

 

But both approaches are very different.

[Tubular Gearhead]

But massive memory or a (co)processor are different. Those became available and affordable just now. They are like putting a new chassis and engine to a old Ford-T model.

 

I would recommend reading up on the exact specifications of the 7800XM and the direction Curt and the designers have taken. Everything was available back then, including 128k. That is all I will say.

 

This topic has been addressed over and over in the 7800 threads and it is best taken there. Once again, sorry for the highjack

[BigO]

They are like putting a new chassis and engine to a old Ford-T model.

. . . an activity that is undertaken daily by thousands upon thousands of enthusiastic hobbyists and professionals.

Nothing wrong with that. And there are also lots of people who restore and keep them in original state. Nothing wrong with that too.

 

But both approaches are very different.

I don't see this issue as being quite like that since this doesn't require permanent mods to the original platform (as I understand the issue, anyway).

 

But, I do see why someone of a purist bent wouldn't want to see games floating around that look like 7800 games but can't be plugged in to a stock 7800 console and played. I'm not even of a purist bent and am not 100% comfortable with that.

 

When it comes to old cars, I lean more toward "restomod". For example, I've done a project where we put a late model fuel injected V8 into an early 80's Mercedes station wagon. It was still the same car, but better.

 

 

 

We now return you to our regularly scheduled topic of discussion: Whatever happened to Boulder Dash. (It was cancelled by the author, in case you missed that.)

Edited December 7, 2010 by BigO

[Thomas Jentzsch]

But massive memory or a (co)processor are different. Those became available and affordable just now. They are like putting a new chassis and engine to a old Ford-T model.

 

I would recommend reading up on the exact specifications of the 7800XM and the direction Curt and the designers have taken. Everything was available back then, including 128k. That is all I will say.

I was only generalizing to say where I draw the line. Being from 2600 land I am not aware of the spec.

[+Propane13]

Yeah, I think in the end, 7800xm development will be up to programmers, which will fall in 2 camps.

Some programmers are going to want to do the purist thing, just to be able to say "hey, I had fun working within constraints".

Others are going to want to push the limits of what was physically possible with add-on hardware.

 

And, it'll get more interesting than that too. As for me, I don't particularly like TIA sounds, yet some 7800 games had POKEY available in some carts.

So, currently, Arkanoid is using Pokey. If I program it to use Pokey, then will those addresses be the same as the POKEY location on XM hardare?

Honestly, I don't know (someone here may know).

 

If they're the same, then suddenly I can create 2 hardware versions-- one with pokey and one without (for XM people that already have a POKEY), which may save people 5 bucks. If the addresses are different, then as a designer, I may consider having some sort of if-statement that sets POKEY locations for the XM if it's plugged in. Then, I guess I'd probably program for it. Maybe that's where this could end up making users some money back for their purchase, without harming the programmer's authenticity ideals.

 

-John

[+GroovyBee]

If I program it to use Pokey, then will those addresses be the same as the POKEY location on XM hardare?

 

The addresses are different. If you program for XBOARD POKEY addresses it'll work fine on XM.