Whatever happened to Boulder Dash?

[Lord Thag]

As far as the XM module goes, I'm looking at it as a way for the programmers to have easy access to a high score cart, and a built in pokey. It also has the arcade sound chip for arcade ports, which will be cool.

 

As to the extra horsepower and RAM... great! All I want is more new, awesome 7800 games to play. There is no 'purity' as far as I'm concerned. I play these old games because they are fun. Always were, always will be, and given the extremely high quality of the 7800 homebrew releases so far....

 

Well, I for one, can't wait

Edited December 8, 2010 by Lord Thag

[ZylonBane]

There is no 'purity' as far as I'm concerned. I play these old games because they are fun.

Then just play the computer version.

[Rex Dart]

Where "it" is "Not a 7800". Hooray for intentionally fragmenting the player and programmer base, I guess.

 

Seriously guys, how is this any different than the Supercharger for the 2600 when that came out? Back then, you want to play "The Official Frogger" or other supercharger games, buy the Supercharger. Same principal. The 7800XM will only increase the possibilities available for the 7800. And just like the example above, the games can be made larger and more elaborate...

 

I see all of this exposure as only increasing the fan base, not dividing it.

 

You're right, it's not any different than Supercharger. It divides the userbase between people who bought the console, and people who bought the console AND the additional hardware. If the hardware were included in the cartridge, then you'd be increasing the userbase.

[Tubular Gearhead]

You're right, it's not any different than Supercharger. It divides the userbase between people who bought the console, and people who bought the console AND the additional hardware. If the hardware were included in the cartridge, then you'd be increasing the userbase.

 

I understand what you guys are saying, and it is a valid point. But overall, I personally have always wanted to see larger, more elaborate games that push the 7800- especially an adventure one (Midnight Mutants only goes so far...). Back in the day, Nintendo, with their very deep pockets and resources was able to put more memory and processors on the cartridges like we are talking about, and make the 7800 look pretty bad (and the NES really good- unfair advantage). Atari's own effort with ram and pokey saw limited use, and was too little too late to show people what the 7800 could really do if given the same attention as some other company's games. I really want to see what Maria can do!

 

To put all the extra ram, improved sound and whatever else in a large portion of 7800 homebrew games today is just not as economically feasible as the the 7800XM solution. I am sure there will still be many homebrewers who write games for the stock 7800, but I am looking forward to larger games on the XM, and I still hope someone will do a 7800 Adventure!!!

Edited December 8, 2010 by Tubular Gearhead

[Andrew Davie]

Did this ever get finished? Was it abandoned? A problem with copyright?

 

Just saw this. With the benefit of a bit of time behind me, and feeling like clearing the air...

 

Firstly, the fun bit was done. It was a bit of a holy grail challenge, showing it could be done. The result is fantastic. With Thomas's help, all the original levels got to the stage where they were working and playable. The remaining things to do were mostly just spit and polish. Title screen. Good sound. Intermissions. a minor physics priority issue. But, you put spit and polish on something if you want to sell it. So, why didn't I? Because it's copyrighted property. The IP is not mine to sell. So, a deal needs to be done with the owners of the copyright. However, going down that path it turns out that my cut would, for various reasons, be roughly bugger all. And, having done at least 80% of the work to make it happen... I'd rather see an unrelased but emotionally pleasing game, than feel like all my hard work was being effectively given away for next to nothing. Why would I do that? Given I'd still have to put a whole lot of extra effort into doing that aforementioned spit and polish... I ask myself... isn't the easiest thing to do just abandon the project and not feel like I've been taken advantage of?

 

I am not saying any proposed "deal" was unreasonable. The copyright owners were very reasonable in their approach and negotiations. They were pleasant to negotiate with, and respected my work. However, I AM saying that such a "deal" was so laughably unattractive in terms of the take-home for me... as to be not worth even considering. It's all rather complex, but let's say I would not be happy with any party getting a larger cut than myself... and actually nearly all interested parties would be getting a larger cut than myself.

 

So it didn't happen. I still play with it a bit. Every now and then I pick it up and do a bit of programming. Lovely engine, beautiful abstraction from the hardware to (effectively) a character-mapped display system. Amazing that it does what it does, even to me.

 

Cheers

A

[+Propane13]

Why not make a one-off then? You mentioned that the physics engine is slightly different, so it's not the same.

Make your own levels, different sprites, perhaps some independent new gameplay, and "Shoulder Clash" could make you and the community happy.

 

I don't want to screw a company out of its IP, but if you make an implementation that is sufficiently different in gameplay, than there's nothing they could say.

Additionally, you could use that in negotiations, as such a release would net them "nothing".

 

You don't have to answer if you don't want to, but would they be taking a fixed dollar amount up-front, a fixed dollar amount per-game or a percentage based on sales?

 

-John

[tremoloman2006]

Did this ever get finished? Was it abandoned? A problem with copyright?

 

Just saw this. With the benefit of a bit of time behind me, and feeling like clearing the air...

 

Firstly, the fun bit was done. It was a bit of a holy grail challenge, showing it could be done. The result is fantastic. With Thomas's help, all the original levels got to the stage where they were working and playable. The remaining things to do were mostly just spit and polish. Title screen. Good sound. Intermissions. a minor physics priority issue. But, you put spit and polish on something if you want to sell it. So, why didn't I? Because it's copyrighted property. The IP is not mine to sell. So, a deal needs to be done with the owners of the copyright. However, going down that path it turns out that my cut would, for various reasons, be roughly bugger all. And, having done at least 80% of the work to make it happen... I'd rather see an unrelased but emotionally pleasing game, than feel like all my hard work was being effectively given away for next to nothing. Why would I do that? Given I'd still have to put a whole lot of extra effort into doing that aforementioned spit and polish... I ask myself... isn't the easiest thing to do just abandon the project and not feel like I've been taken advantage of?

 

I am not saying any proposed "deal" was unreasonable. The copyright owners were very reasonable in their approach and negotiations. They were pleasant to negotiate with, and respected my work. However, I AM saying that such a "deal" was so laughably unattractive in terms of the take-home for me... as to be not worth even considering. It's all rather complex, but let's say I would not be happy with any party getting a larger cut than myself... and actually nearly all interested parties would be getting a larger cut than myself.

 

So it didn't happen. I still play with it a bit. Every now and then I pick it up and do a bit of programming. Lovely engine, beautiful abstraction from the hardware to (effectively) a character-mapped display system. Amazing that it does what it does, even to me.

 

Cheers

A

 

Hello Andrew! Great to see you on the board.

 

Thank you for elaborating on the Boulder Dash. It's too bad that red tape is what kept you from selling this ROM.

 

Just out of curiosity, have you ever thought about just changing the name of the game and releasing the ROM into the public domain or selling it that way?

Such a shame that you've created such a magnificent piece of code and nobody will ever get to enjoy it because of pure greed.

 

I commend you on sticking to your principals. If First Star wants such a large cut I can totally see why you've taken the stand that you have.

 

Have a great summer Andy!

 

-Trem

[high voltage]

Isn't it winter down under at the mo?

[SoulBlazer]

Thanks for the additional info. It's too bad that you weren't able to work out a deal with the copyright holders. Of course you deserve a cut since you were the one who programed the game and did all the hard work....and it sounds like the current offer would be something like 75 percent to them and 25 percent to you or something like that.

 

Question, could the price of the game be raised to help make it more attractive to you for your final cut? People here have paid upwards of $60 for a homebrew Atari game. More money means your cut would be bigger which means that at first looked like a sour deal might become not so bitter in your mouth.

 

Keep up the hard work on this matter.

[tremoloman2006]

I'd pay a premium to play Boulderdash on my 2600! I'd easily pay $75... maybe more.

[+Nathan Strum]

I am not saying any proposed "deal" was unreasonable. The copyright owners were very reasonable in their approach and negotiations. They were pleasant to negotiate with, and respected my work. However, I AM saying that such a "deal" was so laughably unattractive in terms of the take-home for me... as to be not worth even considering. It's all rather complex, but let's say I would not be happy with any party getting a larger cut than myself... and actually nearly all interested parties would be getting a larger cut than myself.

I can understand that, but then at the moment, and for all the work that you've already put into Boulder Dash, your cut is currently zero. Isn't something worth more than nothing? (Plus, the satisfaction of having others being able to play the game and lavish praises on it.)

[supercat]

The Supercharger was, so it is legit. RAM+ was, so it is legit. The DPC used in Pitfall! 2 was, so it is legit.

 

The Melody has 8K of RAM, slightly beyond what was available in the day, but not massively so, since the SuperCharger had 8K, and BurgerTime was 2K. The concepts behind DPC+ are beyond anything that was sold in the day, but bus-stuffing was apparently used in the prototype Atari Graduate peripheral.

[Dino]

I am not saying any proposed "deal" was unreasonable. The copyright owners were very reasonable in their approach and negotiations. They were pleasant to negotiate with, and respected my work. However, I AM saying that such a "deal" was so laughably unattractive in terms of the take-home for me... as to be not worth even considering. It's all rather complex, but let's say I would not be happy with any party getting a larger cut than myself... and actually nearly all interested parties would be getting a larger cut than myself.

I can understand that, but then at the moment, and for all the work that you've already put into Boulder Dash, your cut is currently zero. Isn't something worth more than nothing? (Plus, the satisfaction of having others being able to play the game and lavish praises on it.)

It would probably take a lot of work for that last little bit of "polish" and Andrew probably wouldn't want it released in its current form.

 

Its also the principle of the thing. Given Andrew did ALL the work, his share should be the largest. I don't hold it against him that he hasn't releassed the game on that basis.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

I'd pay a premium to play Boulderdash on my 2600! I'd easily pay $75... maybe more.

We were already talking about a "premium" price for BD. But still the result wouldn't have been really satisfying for everyone.

 

Also probably most people interested may have a lower limit than you might have.