Differences between Baisc XL and Basic XE

[OldAtarian]

Apart from the obvious extended memory support for the 130XE, what other differences are there?

[spookt]

Terrible keyboards, creaky cases, PCBs that like to delaminate when you solder them, stupid PBI changes, bad cartridge port position.

 

Oh, and separate Antic RAM banking on the 130XE.

 

:D

[+Stephen]

Terrible keyboards, creaky cases, PCBs that like to delaminate when you solder them, stupid PBI changes, bad cartridge port position.

 

Oh, and separate Antic RAM banking on the 130XE.

 

:D

Not the machines OP wanted to know to know the differences between the OSS releases of BASIC XL, and BASIC XE.

 

Sorry I cannot provide any info on this.

[spookt]

Hehe that's what I get for reading posts at almost 1am. It's Marius' fault for posting shiny new software toys and 'forcing' me to play with them

 

Anyhow now back to the real topic ...

[+bf2k+]

Well... some of the new commands (like EXTEND) are located in the BASICXE.OSS file.

[OldAtarian]

Apart from any new commands that were added to support the 130XE, is Basic XE fully backwards compatible with Basic XL?

[russg]

Apart from the obvious extended memory support for the 130XE, what other differences are there?

They're several years apart. They are similar. XE can use extended memory and has a 'fast' mode, where it precompiles the

program before running.

I have a XE cart and have never used it. You can't compile your program into native A8, you have to have the cart to

run your program(s). With plain Atari BASIC, you have two well known compilers (ABC and MMG), which compile BASIC

to run on any Atari. I think Turbo BASIC halfway allows compiling. I believe in Turbo BASIC you can run your program

if you have a runtime program loaded from disk.

I'm answering without feeling comfortable I'm correct, lack of experience with them.

Neither XL nor XE caught on very well, probably because you have to have the cart to use them.

I believe ABC compiler has to have integers only, no floating point.

Both XL and XE have built in DOS commands from BASIC and also have PlayerMissle commands that Atari BASIC doesn't have.

[sloopy]

yes, and backwards compatible with Atari Basic

 

sloopy.

[+bob1200xl]

There is a run-time package for BasicXL (and, maybe BasicXE). This allows you to run a BasicXL program without the cart. I believe that FAST is also available in BasicXL. This command doesn't actually compile m/l, but just pre-calculates program addresses where it can.

 

Bob

 

 

Apart from the obvious extended memory support for the 130XE, what other differences are there?

They're several years apart. They are similar. XE can use extended memory and has a 'fast' mode, where it precompiles the

program before running.

I have a XE cart and have never used it. You can't compile your program into native A8, you have to have the cart to

run your program(s). With plain Atari BASIC, you have two well known compilers (ABC and MMG), which compile BASIC

to run on any Atari. I think Turbo BASIC halfway allows compiling. I believe in Turbo BASIC you can run your program

if you have a runtime program loaded from disk.

I'm answering without feeling comfortable I'm correct, lack of experience with them.

Neither XL nor XE caught on very well, probably because you have to have the cart to use them.

I believe ABC compiler has to have integers only, no floating point.

Both XL and XE have built in DOS commands from BASIC and also have PlayerMissle commands that Atari BASIC doesn't have.

[OldAtarian]

You would think with all the great programming tools OSS came out with that they would have created a compiler for their Basic's. I guess if they did that, though, it might discourage you from buying Action! or MAC/65.

[+Larry]

Quite a few differences. Here is a pretty good review that explains some of them:

 

http://www.atarimagazines.com/v4n9/basicxe.html

 

Here's another:

 

http://www.atariarchives.org/cfn/05/10/0018.php

 

Basic XL has (as mentioned) a runtime interpreter as part of the Basic XL Toolkit. The Toolkit also has a few extensions to the language. Bill Wilkinson indicated that a runtime for BXE was not feasible. Bill also maintained that 6502 machines were poor choices for Basic compilers. Perhaps he changed his mind after the Turbo Basic XL compiler was released?

 

Basic XE has an extensions disk which is loaded under the OS and/or cartridge. This provides language extensions and a fast math package. It is also possible if using Dos XL to some of the Dos (under) the OS or cart (IIRC). In short, BXL is a good product; BXE is superb. BXE is almost as fast as TBXL in all the tests that I've run, but it is always just a bit slower, and of course no compiler. BXL is slightly more compatible with some add-on hardware because it doesn't use any/as much memory tricks to gain user program space.

 

-Larry

 

Apart from the obvious extended memory support for the 130XE, what other differences are there?

[576XE]

Basic XE can NOT load it's own Extensions disk.

Really -the thing that make it Basic XE!!!

[576XE]

Really Basic XE gives to programms slightly more readability and speed.

As I can not run my CART with BASICXE.OSS on stock machine then I have no comments.

 

Just a code sample...

100 Rem OSS Basic XE Demo Menu
110 Rem ... INITIALIZATION
120 Dim Vm$(6,12)
130 Vm$(1;)=" Moscow     "
140 Vm$(2;)=" Petersburg "
150 Vm$(3;)=" Evpatoria  "
160 Vm$(4;)=" Feodosia   "
170 Vm$(5;)=" Simeiz     "
180 Vm$(6;)=" Konakovo   "
190 Rem
200 Rem ... Constants
210 X=4:Y=2:Minc=1:Maxc=6:Cur=752:Kbd=764:Cls=125:Unp=255
220 Esc=28:Ret=12:Up=14:Ctrlup=142:Dn=15:Ctrldn=143:Off=1
230 Rem
240 Rem ... Variables
250 D=0:C=Minc:F=0
260 Rem
270 Rem ... PREPARATIONS
280 Poke Cur,Off:? Chr$(Cls)
290 Call "ShowVM" Using X,Y,Minc,Maxc
300 Call "SetCur" Using X,Y,C
1000 Rem
1010 Rem ... MAIN LOOP
1020 K=Peek(Kbd):If K=Unp Then 1020:Rem Getkey...
1030 If K=Esc Then 1999:Rem to Quit
1040 If K=Ret Then Position 12,12:Normal  Vm$(C;):Goto 1110
1050 D=(K=Dn Or K=Ctrldn)-(K=Up Or K=Ctrlup)
1060 If D=0 Then Position 12,12:Normal  " Bad Entry !":Goto 1110
1070 Call "ClrCur" Using X,Y,C:C=C+D
1080 If C<Minc Then C=Minc
1090 If C>Maxc Then C=Maxc
1100 Call "SetCur" Using X,Y,C
1110 Poke Kbd,Unp:Goto 1020:Rem to Getkey...
1120 Rem
1130 Rem QUIT PROGRAM
1999 Graphics 0:? "Many thanks for using menu !":End
2000 Rem
2010 Rem ... ShowVM
2020 Procedure "ShowVM" Using X,Y,Minc,Maxc:Local J
2030   For J=Minc To Maxc:Position X,Y-1+J:? Vm$(J;):Next J
2040 Exit
3000 Rem
3010 Rem ... ClrCur
3020 Procedure "ClrCur" Using X,Y,C
3030   If F=1 Then Position X,Y+C-1:Normal  Vm$(C;):F=0
3040 Exit
4000 Rem
4010 Rem ... SetCur
4020 Procedure "SetCur" Using X,Y,C
4030   If F=0 Then Position X,Y+C-1:Inverse  Vm$(C;):F=1
4040 Exit

[+Larry]

You can't load the extensions? Can you explain why or what environment you are using? Maybe using BXE from a flash cart?

 

-Larry

 

Edit -- I just saw your posts in the programming area. No, the flash cart version has never worked for me with the extensions disk. Even if BXE is patched so that the bank-switch addresses are changed to be compatible with the real OSS cart, it doesn't work. It probably could be fixed, but by someone more adept than me.

 

Do you have a MyIDE-II cart? If so, that does work perfectly, although about 10% slower than the real BXE cartridge. If you bought a BXE replica from Atarimax (and not just a bare flash cart, you might ask him about letting you trade it in for a MyIDE-II. Sadly, shipping is a bummer. But I guarantee that BXE in MyIDE-II works great.

 

I always liked the string arrays of Basic XE and XL. Lots of great features in both.

 

-Larry

 

Edit: One note, since BXE uses ram under rom (at least with the extensions), you must use the MyIDE-II R2 rom -- no soft OS is possible. And all 4 of the major OSS carts work under the MyIDE-II. (No Writer's Tool.)

 

Here are a couple of screen shots with BXE loading from MyIDE-II.

[FifthPlayer]

I was an ardent BXL user back in the '80s. I wrote several programs in it. The big problem I found was that even though the runtime lets you distribute a working program to others, It's still not source-distributable - if you give a program listing to someone, they still need the BXL (or BXE) cart to use it.

 

At the time, I had some success publishing my program listings in magazines. But Compute! magazine passed on a type-in program I made that edits character sets in GTIA color modes. It was in BASIC XL and none of their readers would be able to use it.

Edited July 3, 2016 by FifthPlayer

[kenjennings]

Neither XL nor XE caught on very well, probably because you have to have the cart to use them.

 

 

I recall reading elsewhere that BASIC XL was a big (the biggest?) seller for them. They sold more of those carts than Action.

Edited July 4, 2016 by kenjennings

[kenjennings]

I was an ardent BXL user back in the '80s. I wrote several programs in it. . . .

 

At the time, I had some success publishing my program listings in magazines. . . .

 

You got programs in BASIC XL published? Remarkable. I sent a bunch of games and utilities to Antic, Analog, and Compute! in BASIC XL and never got any of them published. (Compute! was always nice enough to use the S.A.S.E. to return my materials with the rejection letter.)

[FifthPlayer]

 

You got programs in BASIC XL published? Remarkable.

 

No, I got programs in plain Atari BASIC published, but not BASIC XL.

[576XE]

Hi Larry!

 

I have a cart of BXE from Atarimax thus I can't say definetly if it's flashed or not.

I think it's programmed with chip programming.

 

I found that ALL BXE Extensions works in emulators, but I bought cart to run it on real 130XE.

 

I made some experiments and found that I can run BXE with extensions only with DOS 2.5 CP.

It means that I can run DIR command and have adequate results.

 

But being absolutely RAM-based DOS, CP can touch some part of BXE/Ext memory.

This menu program perfectly executed in emulators does not work in DOS 2.5 CP environment.

 

I tried to prepare new AtariDOS II ver.2.5 Disk With DOS.SYS and BASICXE.OSS on it but it locks keyboard after the first Return pressing.

 

Then only COLD restart.

 

May be my DOSes are patched in some manner and can't be used with BXE.

 

I think that cartridge is OK. It works alone and it loads it's extensions normally with DOS 2.5 CP.

 

I don't use MyIDE II cart.

 

Best Regards!

[Kyle22]

I remember using a real BXE cart plugged on top of a real SDX 4.20 cart in a 256K 1200XL and it worked fine with the extensions.

 

What BXE won't work on is my Incognito 800. I still have not replaced the RD4 RD5 resistors, it could be the CPLD bug that doesn't protect some of the $D5xx area, I don't know.

 

IIRC, santos' cart works fine in my 1200XL, but not the 800. BXE on the Ultimate SD cart also fails on the 800.

 

To be clear: BXE without BASICXE.OSS works fine in every situation. It's just on the 800 that the extensions won't load (they start to load, but lock up).

[576XE]

I think that BasicXE is very sensitive to timing.

 

To difference of NTSC/PAL to difference of memory usage (I mean external devices etc...)

 

Now we all needs these SIO2PC SIO2SD RAM extensions etc.

 

Maybe the roots of problems is timing?

EZ

[+Larry]

I think that BasicXE is very sensitive to timing.

 

To difference of NTSC/PAL to difference of memory usage (I mean external devices etc...)

 

Now we all needs these SIO2PC SIO2SD RAM extensions etc.

 

Maybe the roots of problems is timing?

EZ

Can you post a picture of your cartridge?

 

Larry

[576XE]

That is ...

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3ul-RAQNdqjUHVYcXJFX1V0blJFdmpfSGhmUm1PSzBUQnFr

[+Larry]

Thanks! Now we know exactly what you are dealing with.

 

For sure that is an Atarimax 1 Mb flash cartridge. I never got it to work with the BXE extensions, but then I never tried the C.P. I'm a died-in-the-wool MyDos user -- with just a few exceptions, if it doesn't work with MyDos 4.x, I don't use it!

 

-Larry

[576XE]

Hi there Larry!

 

I know that Stevens reputation is very high.

And I'm on his side!

 

Another question.

Does this cart reprogrammable?

 

I know that if NOT then it's another brick.

 

If YES then I'm awaiting another reincarnation...

 

EZ