Space Harrier News

[DracIsBack]

Tramiel-era Atari wasn't conceived as a games company; the plan was to undercut Apple and Commodore.

 

There's a few threads on this topic around AtariAge and a bunch of misconceptions about the Tramiels in this arena.

 

http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/163658-7800-atari-corp-revival/page__p__2020521?do=findComment&comment=2020521

Edited December 9, 2010 by DracIsBack

[MEtalGuy66]

 

 

A lot of the difference does come down to cart size. Super Mario Bros. 3 was 384k, for example.

 

I remember SEGA touting "AfterBurner" On the Sega Master System as being "The first 1 Megabyte Cartridge!"

[Sheddy]

Sheddy.... can you tell me more about the engine? i know it has been a long time but how many objects can be handled? unrolled code? how are the "paths" defined and how is actually the scaling working? I mean the prerendered stuff needs a lot of ram?

 

Could probably go on and on about those things for hours!

...but must get back to finishing stuff on the game. Hope the video below is not too much of a spoiler for these last levels.

So only quick answers

You may see up to 40 sprites at once. Compiled Sprites. "Paths" are lists of vectors and times - EG go little bit up and into screen for 2.5 seconds, then go left for 1 second, etc. No scaling used - all pre-rendered. Doesn't use a lot of RAM, but does use a lot of ROM!

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LpcdfZsjww

[STE'86]

A coder who doesnt wish expound ad nauseum about his long term project?

 

"curiouser and curiouser" said Alice.

 

a very rare species indeed and not one i have ever encountered before

 

Steve

[Shawn Jefferson]

Although a game like this was technically feasible back in the day (after all it is running on hardware basically designed in the late 70s), it wasn't practically feasible. Sheddy is using an 8Mb flashable cartridge, emulators with awesome debuggers, cross-assemblers on very fast modern hardware, modern graphics programs, etc...

 

Could you imagine trying to write a game like this in the early 80s?

[emkay]

Although a game like this was technically feasible back in the day (after all it is running on hardware basically designed in the late 70s), it wasn't practically feasible. Sheddy is using an 8Mb flashable cartridge, emulators with awesome debuggers, cross-assemblers on very fast modern hardware, modern graphics programs, etc...

 

Could you imagine trying to write a game like this in the early 80s?

 

 

Ofcourse. The game itself runs originally on a much more complex system. In 1985 RAM/ROM wasn't as expensive as in the 70s when the A8 was developed.

The "missing link" was in the always missing development tools for the A8, from Atari's side. It's the only cause , some features came "to the daylight" after the year 2000.

In 1986 , people (100% sure) would buy the A8 Spaceharrier, if it only was there at a price of .... let's say ... 200$.

Well, 5 years later they bought games for up to 400$ , just to have "arcade" games at home (Neo Geo).

[Mclaneinc]

A coder who doesnt wish expound ad nauseum about his long term project?

 

"curiouser and curiouser" said Alice.

 

a very rare species indeed and not one i have ever encountered before

 

Steve

 

Lol...

 

To be honest most programmers I knew were mostly introvert but yes there are the totally off the scale exceptions, I got one bloke a job at Donmark and then went on to Travellers Tales, the reason I suspect is they got fed up with his constant manic chatter about anything he was thinking about coding wise, he was an Amiga coder initially and before he went for the interview with an old mate (ex Atari 8bit person)I had to tell him to just answer the questions and keep the loon side in check

 

Sorry Alan, had to be said

 

On the other hand Jason / TMR is a programmers programmer, really helpful, never overbearing and generally a really good bloke.

 

He's probably wondering If I have suffered a stroke or something, me being nice

Edited December 10, 2010 by Mclaneinc

[kool kitty89]

 

 

A lot of the difference does come down to cart size. Super Mario Bros. 3 was 384k, for example.

 

I remember SEGA touting "AfterBurner" On the Sega Master System as being "The first 1 Megabyte Cartridge!"

Afterburner was 512 kB (4 Mega Power -4 Mb), not 1 MB/8Mb.

 

None of the launch titles on the Genesis were over 640 kB (all 512 kB except the 640 kB Ghouls n' Ghosts).

Phantasy Star 2 (JP '89, stateside in '90) was 1 MB though, so that might have been the first. (the original Phantasy Star was among the first 512 kB console games at its 1987 release -'88 stateside)

 

 

Although a game like this was technically feasible back in the day (after all it is running on hardware basically designed in the late 70s), it wasn't practically feasible. Sheddy is using an 8Mb flashable cartridge, emulators with awesome debuggers, cross-assemblers on very fast modern hardware, modern graphics programs, etc...

 

Could you imagine trying to write a game like this in the early 80s?

 

 

Ofcourse. The game itself runs originally on a much more complex system. In 1985 RAM/ROM wasn't as expensive as in the 70s when the A8 was developed.

The "missing link" was in the always missing development tools for the A8, from Atari's side. It's the only cause , some features came "to the daylight" after the year 2000.

In 1986 , people (100% sure) would buy the A8 Spaceharrier, if it only was there at a price of .... let's say ... 200$.

Well, 5 years later they bought games for up to 400$ , just to have "arcade" games at home (Neo Geo).

No way they'd have bought it at that price. The Neo Geo DIDN't sell at those prices... not en masse, it was totally niche and only possible because the games were already being developed for the identical hardware in the arcade.

 

Good point about the development tools though... I'd imagine that tied into the 1st party software development emphasis for most of the Atari Inc years (with less interest in 3rd party licensing/development), and with the Atari Corp years you ended up loosing some of that detailed information on the hardware features anyway (or having it burried) though the A8 fell out of favor behind the ST rather quickly from what I understand. (both in the US and Europe)

[Retro Rogue]

Tramiel-era Atari wasn't conceived as a games company; the plan was to undercut Apple and Commodore. They changed their minds only after the NES became successful, by which time they'd lost the initiative and didn't have the income to take on Nintendo.

 

As already pointed out, completely infactual.

[ANTIQ]

Why most of us refuse to take sides.

[Retro Rogue]

Why most of us refuse to take sides.

 

There's no "sides", there's only facts. The 7800 was not released in response to the NES. Likewise, income from the game console portion of Consumer was a priority after the merger - it's what was intended to keep them afloat. Besides the fact that 2600jr development also started up again that August.

[analmux]

It's a good thing that kjmann wants to assist with releasing the game on a cartridge.

 

However, here are some alternative suggestions for (one of) the ingame tune(s). OK, some finetuning would be needed, of course.

[emkay]

It's a good thing that kjmann wants to assist with releasing the game on a cartridge.

 

However, here are some alternative suggestions for (one of) the ingame tune(s). OK, some finetuning would be needed, of course.

 

 

Thanks for bringing those back to life But RMT would need 16 bit support for making them complete.

[tjlazer]

Question. Would we be able to program one of our own MaxFlash 8Mb carts with the binary for use on a 64K Atari?

Edited December 15, 2010 by tjlazer

[Creature XL]

 

A game like this back in the 80s, well, possibly Atari would have finally awaken

 

 

ELITE release 1987.

If Atari Corporation with all that sh... promotion at CES on U.S.A and Atarian Magazine that allmost all are out of date/old Games when MasterSystem/NES have great Arcade conversions. The Arcade type Xenophobe, Commando, Ikari Wariors, Jinks, Mat Mania Challenge,... were never released, now imagine if a guy like Sheddy or some others get this into the Atari stand at CES...

 

You guys should not forget that he has spend (as I read here) many years coding it. If he had started in 1987, well he would have finished it in 1997 long after the dead of the 8-Bits (even C64). I can assure you that a hobby project is way different from programming for work. He chose a game he absolutely like and he REALLY would like to see on the A8. Its much more motivation then the money a programmer would have got. A programmer back then has got his money even if the game he produced was shit. If a system died because of that he wouldn't care as he (his company) would have moved on to the next system.

 

@sheddy: great work!

[MaPa]

That he has spend many years coding it means nothing. It's hobby project so I suppose he does not code 8 hours every day as he would if it was full time job and probably he had some breaks for weeks, moths or maybe even years? and probably on this project would work more people than one man. So in the end it maybe could have been done in some acceptable time.

[potatohead]

Acceptable time?

 

Who the heck are you kidding?

 

The time it takes is perfectly acceptable. Why? Because it's simply not like we've got people beating a path to ports like this, is it?

 

Labor of love here, pure and simple. Having got a chance to play a screen or two, I must say, it's all kinds of awesome. Great work!!

[Sheddy]

Question. Would we be able to program one of our own MaxFlash 8Mb carts with the binary for use on a 64K Atari?

 

Yes, the binary and flash image will be freely available to program your own 8Mb cart with, and it'll work on all 64K Ataris.

 

 

And I should also add, thanks for all comments. Some of them have had me ROTFLMAO!!

Edited December 15, 2010 by Sheddy

[Jacques]

And will it run on expanded (let's say 64 + 1 MB) Ataris with no need of having a cartridge?

[Sheddy]

And will it run on expanded (let's say 64 + 1 MB) Ataris with no need of having a cartridge?

 

No, it won't run on extended RAM Ataris, except as a cart. It would be possible to do, but it would require rewriting as the bank locations for extra RAM and carts are different.

Edited December 15, 2010 by Sheddy

[MaPa]

Acceptable time?

 

Who the heck are you kidding?

 

The time it takes is perfectly acceptable. Why? Because it's simply not like we've got people beating a path to ports like this, is it?

 

Labor of love here, pure and simple. Having got a chance to play a screen or two, I must say, it's all kinds of awesome. Great work!!

 

I meant that back in the days it surely could have been done in commercially acceptable time as full time job with more people involved.

[snicklin]

I remember feeling this feeling of anticipation a few years ago when waiting for DivX 5 to come out!

[potatohead]

Makes perfect sense. It came off differently to me, that's all.

 

 

 

Acceptable time?

 

Who the heck are you kidding?

 

The time it takes is perfectly acceptable. Why? Because it's simply not like we've got people beating a path to ports like this, is it?

 

Labor of love here, pure and simple. Having got a chance to play a screen or two, I must say, it's all kinds of awesome. Great work!!

 

I meant that back in the days it surely could have been done in commercially acceptable time as full time job with more people involved.

[+CharlieChaplin]

And will it run on expanded (let's say 64 + 1 MB) Ataris with no need of having a cartridge?

 

No, it won't run on extended RAM Ataris, except as a cart. It would be possible to do, but it would require rewriting as the bank locations for extra RAM and carts are different.

 

Errm,

this would "only" require to call for magic Fandal... nothing more, nothing less.

If there is anyone willing to patch/re-write a Mega/Super/... cart and turn it into a XEX file that runs from an Atari with lots of extra RAM, then he is the man !

-Andreas Koch.

[Jacques]

Hopefully Sheddy wouldn't mind it when someone (Fandal?) tries to give us file version