Day to day ST/TOS activities; or serious work.. what can you do?

[skeezix]

hey guys,

 

I'm tempted to get in on the Firebee pre-order, but its a pricey beast; I'm wondering what sorts of modern day to day things you do on your TOS machines? (ST, TT, Falcon, whatever.) What sort of thigns might you want to do on a Firebee?

 

(Besides my tempted use of leaving one around as a shell server akin to a typical unix shell Webserver on TOS for the win!

 

What sort of awesome things do you do on your TOS machines besides running games and retro?

 

jeff

[+DarkLord]

hey guys,

 

I'm tempted to get in on the Firebee pre-order, but its a pricey beast; I'm wondering what sorts of modern day to day things you do on your TOS machines? (ST, TT, Falcon, whatever.) What sort of thigns might you want to do on a Firebee?

 

(Besides my tempted use of leaving one around as a shell server akin to a typical unix shell Webserver on TOS for the win!

 

What sort of awesome things do you do on your TOS machines besides running games and retro?

 

jeff

 

Well, I'll just mention games and "retro" (I'm assuming you mean retro as in playing with

vintage stuff from our misbegotten youths?) to get them out of the way. I'd much rather

play ST games on original hardware than on emulators - it just feels better.

 

I use my Mega ST4 to run my BBS - its a champ at that job. (I use

the CDRW from this setup to backup a lot of my software).

 

I use my Mega STe for those cool STe games and Euro-style demos.

 

My STacy is for portable games (I know, but its a different aspect of ST gaming

since its...well...portable). I'm also learning some GFA Basic on it.

 

My highly modded Falcon is for lots of stuff, CD burning, audio CDs, games, super

cool demos (especially the 060 ones!), better 'Net stuff, etc,...

 

There are various apps I routinely use on all of them - from word processors, text

editors and PageStream, to disk archivers, CD software, frivalous stuff and more.

 

AND there are probably lots of other things I'm forgetting to mention!

[wongck]

I am sure both you guys want it.... go on.

 

I would also like to one, but my plan isn't working.

I need to see some of my stuff including my TT so

not to burn too big a hole in my wallet.

[skeezix]

hey guys,

 

I'm tempted to get in on the Firebee pre-order, but its a pricey beast; I'm wondering what sorts of modern day to day things you do on your TOS machines? (ST, TT, Falcon, whatever.) What sort of thigns might you want to do on a Firebee?

 

(Besides my tempted use of leaving one around as a shell server akin to a typical unix shell Webserver on TOS for the win!

 

What sort of awesome things do you do on your TOS machines besides running games and retro?

 

jeff

 

Well, I'll just mention games and "retro" (I'm assuming you mean retro as in playing with

vintage stuff from our misbegotten youths?) to get them out of the way. I'd much rather

play ST games on original hardware than on emulators - it just feels better.

 

I use my Mega ST4 to run my BBS - its a champ at that job. (I use

the CDRW from this setup to backup a lot of my software).

 

I use my Mega STe for those cool STe games and Euro-style demos.

 

My STacy is for portable games (I know, but its a different aspect of ST gaming

since its...well...portable). I'm also learning some GFA Basic on it.

 

My highly modded Falcon is for lots of stuff, CD burning, audio CDs, games, super

cool demos (especially the 060 ones!), better 'Net stuff, etc,...

 

There are various apps I routinely use on all of them - from word processors, text

editors and PageStream, to disk archivers, CD software, frivalous stuff and more.

 

AND there are probably lots of other things I'm forgetting to mention!

 

See, most of that has to stay on older machines, so you can't justify the firebee for that stuff (Demos, etc)

 

Do you really still use Pagestream and random word procs and such? I know you're a sick sick man, but still Given OpenOffice etc I just find it hard to come up with good reasons to nab a FireBee .. but I want one pretty damn bad anyway I keep meaning to get a full mint setup and gcc etc going again and start porting some of my modern code back to TOS and such, just for a lark; hell, FireBee should run some of my games really nicely! (I have done a lot for mobiles/PDAs/etc for the last 10 years .. stuff like that would run on a moderately fast TOS machine okay..)

 

Hoping to get an ultrasatan and get my STacy onto some newer stuff, and see about doing some more mods and repairs to my ST Book, maybe I can get into the TOS routine again, for more than just gaming

 

jeff

[Christos]

If you'll excuse the self publicity here's an article I've written on the subject:

http://lowresmag.wordpress.com/2009/12/28/my-life-with-the-ct63/

[+DarkLord]

See, most of that has to stay on older machines, so you can't justify the firebee for that stuff (Demos, etc)

 

Do you really still use Pagestream and random word procs and such? I know you're a sick sick man, but still

 

Hehehehe, yep, I still do - althought TBH, its mostly Atari stuff that I use it for (editing config files, a lot of my BBS stuff, things like that).

 

Given OpenOffice etc I just find it hard to come up with good reasons to nab a FireBee .. but I want one pretty damn bad anyway I keep meaning to get a full mint setup and gcc etc going again and start porting some of my modern code back to TOS and such, just for a lark; hell, FireBee should run some of my games really nicely! (I have done a lot for mobiles/PDAs/etc for the last 10 years .. stuff like that would run on a moderately fast TOS machine okay..)

 

Hoping to get an ultrasatan and get my STacy onto some newer stuff, and see about doing some more mods and repairs to my ST Book, maybe I can get into the TOS routine again, for more than just gaming

 

jeff

 

I know what you mean. Every so often my wife and I have this conversation. She'll ask me about that big, black, behemoth of a box (my recased Falcon), that sits in one corner. I'll go over all the nifty things I can do with it, all the marvelous upgrades, and the history of it...and she inevitably responds with, "can't your Linux computer do all that and much more?". Right. Women. Right...

 

I continue to treat all my Atari addiction(s) as well...hobbies. I surely can't say there is any real need for them, but gosh dang it, I love them each and every one. That's justification enough for me.

 

I'm all for you (and anyone else) getting back into the TOS routine. We surely do need all the people supporting the Atari community that we can.

[lp060]

Makes me laugh when I see firebee referred to as pricey. Have you any clue what a Hades060 cost when it was available? I can tell ya from personal experience, far less than half. Firebee is in the realm of reasonable if you ask me, very reasonable. I could have almost 3 firebees for what I paid for my Hades new.

 

I paid more for my first ST even, also the TT030 and the Falcon, all of which I bought new. You guys are funny. Hell, I got more money wrapped up in a VME gfx card for my TT than what a firebee would cost and its an entire computer.

 

The only thing keeping me off the pre-order list is the performance of old software. Knowing that will decide it for me, not the cost.

 

Anyway, I prefer to do all my writing and coding on the Hades. Sometimes the occasional graphics editing and such.

Edited December 20, 2010 by lp060

[+DarkLord]

If you'll excuse the self publicity here's an article I've written on the subject:

http://lowresmag.wordpress.com/2009/12/28/my-life-with-the-ct63/

 

Hey, thanks for the link. That was pretty interesting. Have you tried Mono's

NetSurf browser yet? I know its a work in progress, but its looking better

all the time...

 

PS and I agree about the 060 demos - been playing Black Lotus's stuff at home

a lot - awesome!

[Christos]

I tried it but it stubbornly refused to run, even though all the flags were set correctly. I'll send an email to m0n0 with all the data.

[carmel_andrews]

Lord Dark, Linux is just as bad bloatware as windblows and sucks some..... At least the likes of the ST/TT and Falcon could show an at the time PEECEE a clean pair of heels and was just as capable

Edited December 20, 2010 by carmel_andrews

[mellis]

Lord Dark, Linux is just as bad bloatware as windblows and sucks some..... At least the likes of the ST/TT and Falcon could show an at the time PEECEE a clean pair of heels and was just as capable

 

I'm surprised you feel that way. Why do you think that Linux is "bloatware", Carmel?

[carmel_andrews]

Well, it takes up a whole dvd (or almost) at least with the 2010 mandriva distro i have....if that isn't bloatware then what is

Edited December 20, 2010 by carmel_andrews

[skeezix]

Wrong place for a flamewar

 

Linux (and simialrly, the BSDs etc) cmoe with all that stuff for your convenience; not much of that is mandatory install. You an install a unix or linux system into a couple hundred megabytes (yes MB). The rest is just stuff they might as well throw on the DVD since many people will want it. Bloatware is when all of the kruft is required.

 

Anyway...

 

jeff

[skeezix]

If you'll excuse the self publicity here's an article I've written on the subject:

http://lowresmag.wordpress.com/2009/12/28/my-life-with-the-ct63/

 

Nice read; pretty interesting .. if you had free time (hahaha!), make all those application names links to where they might be found

 

I suppose mostly what we'd all expect, or perhaps you accomplished more real world stuff than I would have expected; but yeah, the browser is where it really hurts I think

 

jeff

 

Its a tough niche -- for demos and games, you have emus or old hardware; for newer activities you have Unix or linux (ie: mint etc is aspiring to be them, so you coudl cut to the case.) The question is what modern real world computing tasks can you do (besides running gcc which is everywhere) ... and for those tasks, you could probably use ARanyM for the Atari feel over using somethign native on a modern machine; so its pretty hard core to do real world computation on a TOS machine. But we love you for it

Edited December 20, 2010 by skeezix

[Christos]

Well mint is different in the sense that it also runs TOS/GEM stuff which is something you can't do with Linux. Also it is said (but I can't confirm) that it runs GNU stuff faster than Linux68K though it's not quite as compatible. About the browser, yes it's lagging behind quite a bit but with the netsurf port we won't be that much back.

[mellis]

Well, it takes up a whole dvd (or almost) at least with the 2010 mandriva distro i have....if that isn't bloatware then what is

 

You're aware that you can boot Linux from a 1.44MB floppy, right?

[+DarkLord]

Lord Dark, Linux is just as bad bloatware as windblows and sucks some..... At least the likes of the ST/TT and Falcon could show an at the time PEECEE a clean pair of heels and was just as capable

 

Gosh, I don't know where I'd be without Linux! When Atari folded, I held on for

a couple of years, still using *all* Atari hardware/software for my needs. When

the 'Net really hit in our (backwards) area and my family was wanting to take

advantage of it all, I had a choice. Go with Windows <gasp, gag!> or learn

about Linux. I had been exposed to Linux through MINT on my Falcon, so I took

the plunge, put together a system by hand, then never looked back. I'm being

silly, I know (as has been pointed out numerous times), but I can not -stand-

Windows and Microsoft.

 

Just my feelings, FWIW, and YMMV, and all that, but there it is.

[wongck]

Makes me laugh when I see firebee referred to as pricey. Have you any clue what a Hades060 cost when it was available?

 

No need to compare the hades. Just compare to that STbook at ebay.

[+DarkLord]

Makes me laugh when I see firebee referred to as pricey. Have you any clue what a Hades060 cost when it was available?

 

No need to compare the hades. Just compare to that STbook at ebay.

 

Yea Gods, I can't believe what some of them go for!

[lp060]

Makes me laugh when I see firebee referred to as pricey. Have you any clue what a Hades060 cost when it was available?

 

No need to compare the hades. Just compare to that STbook at ebay.

 

You totally don't get it do you? The firebee is cheaper now than what my hades cost new! That ST-book is completely unrelated. Yeah its a silly price but you missed my point. I'm not talking about used stuff, every ST model I ever bought new cost me more than what the firebee costs today.

[+poobah]

You totally don't get it do you? The firebee is cheaper now than what my hades cost new! That ST-book is completely unrelated. Yeah its a silly price but you missed my point. I'm not talking about used stuff, every ST model I ever bought new cost me more than what the firebee costs today.

Ain't that the truth! (and dollars that were worth quite a bit more than they are today!)

[carmel_andrews]

Well, it takes up a whole dvd (or almost) at least with the 2010 mandriva distro i have....if that isn't bloatware then what is

 

You're aware that you can boot Linux from a 1.44MB floppy, right?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Is that 'small linux' then....or Mini linux (i was ofcourse referring to the pc version of mandriva linux)

[mellis]

Well, it takes up a whole dvd (or almost) at least with the 2010 mandriva distro i have....if that isn't bloatware then what is

 

You're aware that you can boot Linux from a 1.44MB floppy, right?

 

Is that 'small linux' then....or Mini linux (i was ofcourse referring to the pc version of mandriva linux)

 

The term "Linux" refers to the OS kernel. The user environment can vary. Consider these examples:

1. Android

2. ChromeOS

3. Ubuntu

 

The first two are examples of the Linux kernel providing the basis for very different user environments (but both happen to be developed by Google).

 

The third example is of a more traditional "Linux distribution", which is where the Linux kernel provides a foundation for a GNU userland. At its most basic, your user experience could be shell (command prompt), and that is what you would boot from a 1.44MB floppy. If you desire a GUI, you could layer X11 on top of that, but even then, you still use the command prompt (in a terminal window) to manipulate files. If you want your GUI to host a desktop environment, you can choose from several including: Gnome, KDE, Enlightenment.

 

The DVD you referred to earlier probably bundles ALL of your desktop choices to save you the bother of downloading them. And why not? A single layer DVD will store 4.7GB of data, so you might as well fill it up.

 

The point here is that Linux can scale from being running off of a 1.44MB floppy (Kernel + shell) all of the way up to hosting a modern desktop environment. How far you go is up to you. I'd hardly call that "bloated". Bloated is when you need gigabytes worth of zeros and ones to do anything at all.

[wongck]

Well, it takes up a whole dvd (or almost) at least with the 2010 mandriva distro i have....if that isn't bloatware then what is

 

You're aware that you can boot Linux from a 1.44MB floppy, right?

 

my colleagues was wowing (is there such a word?) the thin Apple Air notebook and mentioned that it's so thing because most stuff are soldered directly onto the mobo... even the memory.

 

Yeah so much for new technology. The ST had memory soldered to the mobo and when they were born, compared PC thickness, ST are thin. Just like what apple is to PC today.

 

Yeah I know, they are still around & the company are now bigger while Atari is no more.

 

And try booting Linux without a floppy.... ST can, right?

 

Soooo much for new technology.

[wongck]

 

 

Is that 'small linux' then....or Mini linux (i was ofcourse referring to the pc version of mandriva linux)

 

I have seen it & IIRC, they put a small httpd or router app on it.

 

My phone runs linux.... Android to be exact.

Not too smooth.... iPhone is smoother... I mean the UI.