Project-M 2.0

[leech]

Just now, Justin Payne said:

Oh, "Amiga die hard" is quite evident and that would be a conversation I would only expect to be having on a school playground in 1997. Adults should have a more objective viewpoint. ?

For sure!  I mean if we wanted an objectively adult view point.  You can now get an Atari built up to have better hardware than the non-AGA Amigas, so there is that

[emkay]

2 minutes ago, leech said:

For sure!  I mean if we wanted an objectively adult view point.  You can now get an Atari built up to have better hardware than the non-AGA Amigas, so there is that

From an adult (?)   view point , someone should create a finally working version of Wolf 3D (and others) using the  Atari with all software tricks to speed things up.

The second adult view point is then for the rest of Atari users to accept the result as final.

 

Even back in the 80s some coders did really reach edges of what the Atari could do. But particular THE Lucasfilm Games weren't really optimized. 3D projection is the best of what the Atari could do .

And for scrolling with sprites games, even if people managed to have "10 times more" fluent sprites, you might hear people claim "the Atari can do much better"

Project-M isn't really meant to resemble the Wolf 3D playability. Imagine a "12" colors game plus real moving "enemies" on the screen. 9-12 fps possible.   

  

[leech]

1 minute ago, emkay said:

From an adult (?)   view point , someone should create a finally working version of Wolf 3D (and others) using the  Atari with all software tricks to speed things up.

The second adult view point is then for the rest of Atari users to accept the result as final.

 

Even back in the 80s some coders did really reach edges of what the Atari could do. But particular THE Lucasfilm Games weren't really optimized. 3D projection is the best of what the Atari could do .

And for scrolling with sprites games, even if people managed to have "10 times more" fluent sprites, you might hear people claim "the Atari can do much better"

Project-M isn't really meant to resemble the Wolf 3D playability. Imagine a "12" colors game plus real moving "enemies" on the screen. 9-12 fps possible.   

  

For sure, it's all about engine show of.  It's like from everything I've read about Quake (2?) on the Falcon.  The engine is looking and running quite nicely, but once you start adding in AI and everything... just a lot more for the system to try to handle.  Graphics definitely isn't the only thing that make up a game.

[emkay]

18 minutes ago, leech said:

For sure, it's all about engine show of.  It's like from everything I've read about Quake (2?) on the Falcon.  The engine is looking and running quite nicely, but once you start adding in AI and everything... just a lot more for the system to try to handle.  Graphics definitely isn't the only thing that make up a game.

Also, if such a game is presented, the viewer needs to have the ability to look at it as it might have been back in the old days. 

To say "Wolf 3D on the PC is mediocre" doesn't include that  

When the game was new, it was something "new". There haven't been newer games that put a bias. 

Encounter for example was ... to write "something outstanding" wouldn't really fit.  It like "there are some games" and there was some "whoaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...."

Today, after a gazillion versions of 3D games exist, Encounter looks to people "mediocre and blocky" .

 

So, if someone really was doing a real playable "Wolf 3D" for the Atari, I hope they do their judgement including the Age of the whole thing. 

 

[leech]

8 minutes ago, emkay said:

Also, if such a game is presented, the viewer needs to have the ability to look at it as it might have been back in the old days. 

To say "Wolf 3D on the PC is mediocre" doesn't include that  

When the game was new, it was something "new". There haven't been newer games that put a bias. 

Encounter for example was ... to write "something outstanding" wouldn't really fit.  It like "there are some games" and there was some "whoaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...."

Today, after a gazillion versions of 3D games exist, Encounter looks to people "mediocre and blocky" .

 

So, if someone really was doing a real playable "Wolf 3D" for the Atari, I hope they do their judgement including the Age of the whole thing. 

 

For sure.  I remember when I first saw Ballblazer and Dimension X.  With how smooth those run on the systems, and at the time they came out they looked absolutely amazing! 

If you want something fun to look at though, check out games on the Apple II compared to the Atari 8bit... Yikes!  Especially when you look at ones like The Pawn... I still haven't seen screenshots with graphics for the Apple II, not sure if it's just so bad... or it didn't include any...

[Justin Payne]

20 hours ago, leech said:

For sure.  I remember when I first saw Ballblazer and Dimension X.  With how smooth those run on the systems, and at the time they came out they looked absolutely amazing! 

If you want something fun to look at though, check out games on the Apple II compared to the Atari 8bit... Yikes!  Especially when you look at ones like The Pawn... I still haven't seen screenshots with graphics for the Apple II, not sure if it's just so bad... or it didn't include any...

LOVE both of those games and they were, many times, my go-to games back in the day. Ballblazer, especially, for 2-player.

[ALEXANDER]

On 12/23/2010 at 11:45 AM, NRV said:

Hi all!

 

At last, after a year of doing nothing, I got some time at the end of this year to advance this thing (a long vacation!). After like a month and a half of "casual" work I got to the point where you can move freely through the maze(s), and also added a lot of details and tested some ideas.

 

There are 2 versions: PAL and NTSC, they only run in the correct machine and are almost equal. The colors are adjusted to be similar and the music plays at the same speed (NTSC drop one of every six music steps, but it sounds pretty good). The PAL version is the better one because of the PAL artifacting and the "longer" frames, but in general they are pretty similar.

 

Try this in Altirra 1.8 for the best results. For PAL you need to select in "System->Video": "PAL" and "PAL artifacting". Also in "Adjust colors" the preset "original". For NTSC unselect "PAL" and select the color preset "Authentic NTSC".

 

I had not tested this in real machines, but I cleaned up the code so not to load anything below the 10K mark, so I hope this helps those with modern load devices.

 

I added a little intro, mostly to showcase the great music from Miker . Many thanks as always for all those songs!

 

Basically, now you can move through the maze, picking up keys and some gold treasures, opening doors and founding secrets. There are no enemies or "visible" sprites yet, so I added a "graphical" way to show that you picked up something (anyway I generally put things near golden walls.. I'm not that bad a person ).

There are 3 types of doors: blue ones are free, green ones need a key to open and red ones cannot be opened.

Try to use "wisely" your keys (yes, right now is mostly trial and error..) and try to end the "game" with more than $600! (well, there is not really an "end", is just the last maze )

 

I implemented different methods of control, so you can choose the one that fits you better:

 

-> by joystick: up/down moves forward and backward, left/right rotates, button+left/right strafe to the sides, button while looking at a door (needs to be at the tile beside the door!), opens the door.

 

-> keyboard:

- arrows (with or without [control]) and W,A,S,D: moves and rotates.

- [shift]+left arrow/right arrow: strafe left right

- Q and E: strafe left right

- Z and X: strafe left right

- [space bar] or [return]: open doors

 

(In emulation, in a PC keyboard, I like to use the arrows and Z,X to strafe)

 

-> other keys:

[control]+M: music on/off

[control]+R: rotation speed (between 1 and 5)

[control]+P: old hud effect plus a "classic" vcount rainbow

 

Right now there is no restart method, sorry for those that play in real machines .

 

Technical post and spoilers later

 

Regards!

 

project_M_2.zip 94.32 kB · 1,703 downloads

First of all, thanks for your work NRV. One question, have you planned to finish this awesome work or launch another advanced version soon ?

[Jacques]

@NRV

 

As for finishing, maybe it could be at least a "maze escape game" with few levels, looking for some keys and finding the exit, with time-counter and point-scoring system based on elapsed time?

Still better than just the demo

Edited June 15, 2021 by Jacques

[IndusGT]

Sorry to necrobump this thread, wondered if there were any news. Surely I cant be the only one !

[Kyle22]

Use more RAM, extended banks, overlay files, virtual memory swap file... Whatever works. The possibilities on Incognito and the other big machines are almost endless.

:)

 

[leech]

1 hour ago, Kyle22 said:

Use more RAM, extended banks, overlay files, virtual memory swap file... Whatever works. The possibilities on Incognito and the other big machines are almost endless.

 

Ha, I mean my 130XE with Rapidus, VBXE and U1MB could feasibly run Doom.  Considering people have ported it to a printer.