LAST NINJA Screen contruction

[José Pereira]

Hi, I think thhe Tittle of this Topic just explained what I am looking for...

Cannot find anything on Web...

 

Thanks.

Greetings.

José Pereira.

[TMR]

Hi, I think thhe Tittle of this Topic just explained what I am looking for...

Cannot find anything on Web...

 

The Last Ninja 3 Integrator was recently found and released.

[José Pereira]

Hi, I think thhe Tittle of this Topic just explained what I am looking for...

Cannot find anything on Web...

 

The Last Ninja 3 Integrator was recently found and released.

 

 

Thanks, but is there any Forum/Thread explanation about this?

 

 

Greets.

José Pereira.

[José Pereira]

Hi, I think thhe Tittle of this Topic just explained what I am looking for...

Cannot find anything on Web...

 

The Last Ninja 3 Integrator was recently found and released.

 

 

 

 

I remember I've read this many time ago at LastNinja Archives:

"I got a chance to exchange some eMails with Hugh Riley and asked him dry:

 

What made Ninja different was that the sprites were hi-res and they used multicolour backgrounds.

 

Hugh drew the background stuff using a Wigmore mouse and the multi-colour drawing package that came with it. He doesn't know anybody else who used it but it was superb.

John Twiddy wrote an editor (he called it the integrator) that let Hugh pick up the individual background elements like trees and bushes and drop them into place on screen. It also worked out the best colour combination for each element when they overlaid each other. John then designated which pixels were foreground and cut those bits out of the ninja sprite as it went past..

 

Hugh did the sprites with a joystick using someone elses in house program that was doing the rounds (can't remember what it was called). He had trouble getting the run to look half right. (too few pixels/not enough frames/ bad angle). The sprites were unusual too being hi-res/single colour. The ninja body was 2 sprites. He laid another sprite over for the face and hands and a 4th was the weapon. Most of the other characters used the ninja base sprite with a different overlay (to save memory as usual.) "

 

The only thing I've discouver from the original untill now...

José Pereira.

 

(P.s.-This LN3 is probably a sort of that original one...)

 

 

Greets.

José Pereira.

Edited December 27, 2010 by José Pereira

[José Pereira]

The ninja body was 2 sprites. He laid another sprite over for the face and hands and a 4th was the weapon. Most of the other characters used the ninja base sprite with a different overlay (to save memory as usual.) "

 

 

I always see sprites like this even without reading this (I've post this sometime ago on one my LastNinja Threads).

That's why I never understand why Weapons weren't more like their real colours:

Sword: White/Gray, Staff: Brown,...

 

Or perhaps I would understand if all the Bodies were Black because of Priorities, but no they aren't all7always Black...

 

 

José Pereira.

[Heaven/TQA]

the best is the 3d head in the screenshots...

[José Pereira]

the best is the 3d head in the screenshots...

 

[TMR]

Thanks, but is there any Forum/Thread explanation about this?

 

Nope because it literally only fell into public hands on the 18th of December 2010 when that Onslaught release was added to the CSDb - some of us had it about a week earlier but, because it arrived with over thirty double sided disks of other fun Cyberdyne Systems stuff, there wasn't any time to do more than prod at it a couple of times and go "ooh" before moving on to the previously unseen and thought lost stuff.

 

(P.s.-This LN3 is probably a sort of that original one...)

 

Yup, it's apparently the tool that John Twiddy wrote for the first game with a little debugging and upgrading by Dan "Armalyte" Phillips. i'd be surprised if the game code wasn't derived from Twiddy's as well to be honest...

 

the best is the 3d head in the screenshots...

 

The release has that unfinished Robin Levy image on it, as well as the editor used for Tusker. In all there were about thirty disks arrived with these tools about a week before the LN3 Integrator was put out containing an early but sort-of-playable preview of System 3's Putty, the soundtrack and a few odd graphics for Armalyte 2, bits and bobs of two shoot 'em ups aimed at budget release called Scimitar and Half Life (both were being developed alongside larger projects) and several iterations of Deadlock, all previously unreleased.

[Heaven/TQA]

cool stuff... where did the S3 stuff appeared out of the blue?

[Tezz]

Hugh drew the background stuff using a Wigmore mouse and the multi-colour drawing package that came with it. He doesn't know anybody else who used it but it was superb.

One of my c64 friends back in the day used Wigmore artist a lot, he was doing it mostly for the fun of drawing but did some stuff also for some intros for varoius local groups. I remember having an sx-64 for about 6 months around 1988 converting some of his work by hand from Wigmore to the Atari.

[José Pereira]

cool stuff... where did the S3 stuff appeared out of the blue?

 

Interesting question... would there be some A8 things...

 

Remember unreleased Twister, BankokKnights, LN1, Tusker...

 

And I continue in believe that something about LN1 exists for A8.

 

 

LN1 adverts:

->On January issues of C&VG and Crash says:

"C64, Spectrum, Amstrad, Atari800 and ST on 31stJanuary"

->same Magazines on February Issue:

"C64, Spectrum, Amstrad & atari ST on 30th January. Atari800 on 28th of February.

 

Now lets try to understand this (on not):

->System3 wanted to have the versions one day soon than on the last Month promising (31->30th January) and we see now that only the C64 was almost done, and not even in the Winter of 87 only later. Crazy this guys

-> Zx Screens appeared on several ZX Magazines and even revues.

-> A8 concerning: if they don't have notjing in January, how will they get all in a Month to promise it just for A8 1Month later.

 

 

What all this prove is that they have something on the different versions:

-> C64 version was the only one released, but only on the Summer.

-> ZX exists but mot ppublished.

-> ST discouver later.

-> CPC wasn't difficult as LN2 was only a ZX mono colour. They were just waiting finishing Spectrum and directly run it on Amstrad CPC.

-> A8 something must have existed somewhere, something.

Were only the A8 without nothing.

And if soo why they continue to advertizse it for Months...

If they were searching some coder(s) they will not put there dates!... Isn't it?

 

Strange that untill now no-one ever discouver this... and no-one was on A8 and into System3?

 

(Harlequin was later and was about LN2)

 

 

José Pereira.

[TMR]

cool stuff... where did the S3 stuff appeared out of the blue?

 

John Kemp of Cyberdyne Systems, he found them recently and shipped the lot to Frank at GTW64 for archiving. Cyberdyne were in-house at System 3 from not long after Armalyte onwards.

 

Interesting question... would there be some A8 things...

 

No, this stuff all dates from around the time that Turbocharge and Last Ninja 3 were on the go - well after System 3 were involved with the Atari 8-bits.

Edited December 27, 2010 by TMR

[Heaven/TQA]

still cool... esp. calling themself Cyberdyne...

[José Pereira]

->Crash and C&VG 3/87 continues the same "Saga" with other versions released and A8 on the 28th of February.

->C&VG revue the C64 Game and was that early un-released Screenshots in July87 issue and continues to have all (includ. A8) release, just saiyng that they only see/play the C64 version)

And if you see this early Screens they seems with not so many colours and not as much Trees/Plants, and wouldn't be so difficult to turn into A8. Just get this Images and see what I am saying...

 

Then if WorldofSpectrum is right, the next advertise were only in 88:

->Your Sinclair, Crash and C&VG at 2/88 with C64and ZX (with ZX's Screenshots and Magazines revues...) released, but CPC and ST to follow.

It's only here in 88 that our A8 disappear from the Ads!

 

 

 

Just a little (of the) History!...

José Pereira.

Edited December 27, 2010 by José Pereira

[Heaven/TQA]

Jose... as Marketing Guy with years of working experience in the gaming industry... don't believe the adds...

[José Pereira]

Jose... as Marketing Guy with years of working experience in the gaming industry... don't believe the adds...

 

But will they put on the Add if there wasn't at least someone for the A8 version...

 

Only IK on A8 (there was a Colony7 Game in the begining in 83) and Archer McLean.

Archer gets PMs underlays on the Screens Gfxs. to add colours, probably the first one to use this.

Would he been invited to A8 LN?

If not, who they invited?

There wasn't many in U.K. (Ivan Mackintosh, ChrisPaulMurray were at Tynesoft...)

I always want to ask this to Archer...

 

 

José Pereira.

Edited December 27, 2010 by José Pereira

[Tezz]

Judging by how much care was put into A8 software in the uk by that era, it's probably a good thing that it didn't see the light of day. Remember the BBC version.

[José Pereira]

Judging by how much care was put into A8 software in the uk by that era, it's probably a good thing that it didn't see the light of day. Remember the BBC version.

 

 

Yeah, I also thought about this sad things many times...

But just see how simple and A8 could be on this early C64 screen:

LN1 C64 early Screenshot1

And see that the Ninja&Enemy Sprites seems 2:1 Multicolour, almost sure, just see the Head design, it's not circle, it's 2:1 for sure (the Legs proves it's 2:1, Hi-resolution and you wouldn't see the pixels steps of the Legs angle inclination...)

If we ever get this 2:1 Sprites shapes one part of the problem wold be solved!...

Could this Screens came from the Hungarian Guys of the Andromeda Team?

 

 

But also the July87 C64 Screenshot at C&VG:

C&VG 7/87 revue Left Page

C&VG 7/87 revue Right Page

See that this Screens of rthe Left page with the House look good but probably not difficult to get into A8 ANTIC4, this Screen is from the early ones (see that the "Food" Letters are different from the others (these others on the Right page seems like they were when the final release comes)

 

José Pereira.

Edited December 27, 2010 by José Pereira

[José Pereira]

The Left Page with the House if it was A8:

Backgr.- Black

PF0-White

PF1-Green

PF2-Red

PF3-Gray (in the Shadows), it never goes into Red Chars.

 

The Trees Yellowish cames from PF2 DLI: Red->Yellow and another DLI it turns to Red again for the Bottom one.

Status Lines are PF0-White and PF3-Gray

 

One Player on the "Food" Top Bar and DLI the same for the other down "Wounds" horizontal Bar.

Down Status Area DLIs. of PF1 and PF2.

Our Ninja 1PM for the Eyes and the Weapon...

 

See now, if someone writes the A8 code with this early Screenshots the A8 version seems very possible to do and not many tricks needed:

-> 1PM for the Status.

-> Another for the Ninja

-> A third for the enemy

-> And you stil had one left...

 

 

 

 

José Pereira.

[TMR]

Jose... as Marketing Guy with years of working experience in the gaming industry... don't believe the adds...

 

But will they put on the Add if there wasn't at least someone for the A8 version...

 

Yes, it happened quite a bit back in the day over all the platforms.

[+Stephen]

Jose... as Marketing Guy with years of working experience in the gaming industry... don't believe the adds...

 

But will they put on the Add if there wasn't at least someone for the A8 version...

 

Yes, it happened quite a bit back in the day over all the platforms.

Yeah - look how many Jaguar games were announced and never had the first line of code written.

[Sikor]

Kuba Husak get other way to port LN2 to Atari: direct port from BBC Micro. More info at: http://www.atarionline.pl/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=475&page=3#Item_20

look at this: (early version yet): LastNinja2_12_03_v2.xex

[José Pereira]

We also talked here about the BBC conversion.

There was 1st tries by PeteD.

I am not into it as it isn't LN in reality. And it's not only the down gfxs but also other things including the screen building...

And this is the real reason, there isn't even gfxs masking the guys, trees over stones,...

That's the reason and the only possibility they had to have it in the 32KBs BBC stock machine.

It's indeed just another Isometric bitmap mode game like all the others.

That's why it is so simple port to A8.

If you even use GR.15 Bitmap Mode 4colours and soft sprites only then it's almost automatic like XXL did in Hobgobblin.

 

I did some screens of BBC that ANTIC4 5colours without or with DLIs/PMGs and it look good but the 'real LN feeling' is missing there.

But this is my personal opinion and others may think other way.

Thanks for sharing.

[Sikor]

So, maybe you ask Jakub to make GFX for him. If I know - is very beggining stage of port this game, but his told, that it was simple todofor this game.

Edited March 12, 2013 by Sikor

[José Pereira]

ame='José Pereira' date='Mon Dec 27, 2010 4:33 PM' timestamp='1293467611' post='2167938']

 

 

 

 

 

I remember I've read this many time ago at LastNinja Archives:

"I got a chance to exchange some eMails with Hugh Riley and asked him dry:

 

What made Ninja different was that the sprites were hi-res and they used multicolour backgrounds.

 

Hugh drew the background stuff using a Wigmore mouse and the multi-colour drawing package that came with it. He doesn't know anybody else who used it but it was superb.

John Twiddy wrote an editor (he called it the integrator) that let Hugh pick up the individual background elements like trees and bushes and drop them into place on screen. It also worked out the best colour combination for each element when they overlaid each other. John then designated which pixels were foreground and cut those bits out of the ninja sprite as it went past..

 

Hugh did the sprites with a joystick using someone elses in house program that was doing the rounds (can't remember what it was called). He had trouble getting the run to look half right. (too few pixels/not enough frames/ bad angle). The sprites were unusual too being hi-res/single colour. The ninja body was 2 sprites. He laid another sprite over for the face and hands and a 4th was the weapon. Most of the other characters used the ninja base sprite with a different overlay (to save memory as usual.) "

 

The only thing I've discouver from the original untill now...

José Pereira.

(P.s.-This LN3 is probably a sort of that original one...)

 

 

Greets.

José Pereira.

This interview with one of the authors explain my reasons.

It's possible to do the same Engine/Editor on A8 (only thing no way possible it's the guys hardware hi-res sprites on A8 as we all know) but that is a lot of work that I think I will never find anyone willing for 'this trouble'...This interview with one of the authors explain my reasons.

It's possible to do the same Engine/Edit