Bikerbob Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 OH.. really? ok.. I did not think a serial connection was needed to see the device and setup.. I did the UDS-100 on my PC no problems and did not connect it to a serial port. This one I have been trying to do the same.. but you are right.. there is some serial connectivity (but red) and then it does the reboot. SO maybe this device NEEDS the serial device there. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tillek Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 I actually had an MSS like that... and it would boot over and over... and then maybe once in awhile it would work. The difference though is if it was connected to serial, I'd see the text as it boots, and then there were tons of garbage characters. It worked that way for awhile before I finally "retired" it... only to lose it's replacement in that... "event". I would seriously keep an eye out when you have extra cash here and there.... and pick up a spare or two. That's what I started doing. I'm not sure about these "new fangled" options people come up with as they were designed to meet their specific needs... so I like to stick with what I know works the way I need it to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tillek Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 Another thing... (maybe unrelated)... I've noticed lately, using the Lantronix device installer in Windows doesn't always seem to see the MSS devices. I even thought my new one was faulty until I used a web browser to connect directly and found out it was fine. The UDS shows up no matter what... but the MSS... hit and miss. Not sure what causes it, (and it's happened whether serial was connected or not)... but just to keep it in mind to not necessarily write it off. It might have been my router or switch, but directly trying to connect works, so I'm not worrying about it anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcamp48 Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 (edited) Are the MSS devices newer , I have never really heard of them until now. And what is the opinion on them ? Are they worth getting over the UDS ??? Russ Edited August 3, 2019 by rcamp48 Subscript on.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 6 minutes ago, Tillek said: Another thing... (maybe unrelated)... I've noticed lately, using the Lantronix device installer in Windows doesn't always seem to see the MSS devices. I even thought my new one was faulty until I used a web browser to connect directly and found out it was fine. The UDS shows up no matter what... but the MSS... hit and miss. Not sure what causes it, (and it's happened whether serial was connected or not)... but just to keep it in mind to not necessarily write it off. It might have been my router or switch, but directly trying to connect works, so I'm not worrying about it anymore. UDS-10 has difficulties due to JAVA versions in browsers and the device installer. You have to install the older java in order for it to work properly. MSS-100 barely works with current JAVA which is crazy beings it's older... The MSS prefers earlier device installer or set up through it's serial console , and in fact the serial console is how I got resistance back to a point where I could telnet into it and finish it up... If any of the devices start getting wonky, factory reset and reflash the firmware, don't wait for it to corrupt to death and die... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bikerbob Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 Well tried it on my home network ( earlier was at work) and I am having the same issue.. though device installer at home did see it. I have a xp machine.. and linux laptop.. so those could be tried as well. mss.sys seems to be the firmware file .. but deviceinstaller did not like it. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcamp48 Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 I am experimenting with hooking up the ST through a Null Modem cable to my Master-PC with the USD-10 connected to the PC, I can then put in a few com port cards and run a multi line BBS. Anyone willing to help me with this that is experienced enough to do this? All I need is the PC settings for an incoming modem through the Null Modem Cable, plus I think I have the sting settings set right, they are to the ip of 192.168.0.11, which is the address used for my PC. Any takers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 (edited) if it identified itself and you were able to see the firmware, it's alive. You need to do a factory reset and flash it. As I stated you need to use the device installer and java version that was in play during the mss 100's firmware timestamp. You might decide to use your XP machine for this. That's the rig I use for all the Lantronix stuff from back then. Although as I stated partial results can be had using later OS,installer, and java versions. Remember it has lengthy boot process and to give a long period of time for operations to complete. We are talking minutes not seconds. It's a great device. It copies flash rom to ram and decompresses everything and then grabs configs etc from flash then continues booting. because of multiple devices our mss100 has the firmware named mss100.sys this helps prevents flashing incorrect firmware. v3.8/1 | Ezwebcon v3.0/4 I usually use the serial port or telnet port though.... You can avoid navigating endless web pages using the ftp server, though the web pages can have good asides and hints ftp://ftp.lantronix.com/pub/ Edited August 3, 2019 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tillek Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 10 hours ago, rcamp48 said: I am experimenting with hooking up the ST through a Null Modem cable to my Master-PC with the USD-10 connected to the PC, I can then put in a few com port cards and run a multi line BBS. Anyone willing to help me with this that is experienced enough to do this? All I need is the PC settings for an incoming modem through the Null Modem Cable, plus I think I have the sting settings set right, they are to the ip of 192.168.0.11, which is the address used for my PC. Any takers? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcamp48 Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 On 8/3/2019 at 12:40 PM, Tillek said: I guess that means its too hard to do, I already gave up and went back to what I had, it was a nice idea though..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bikerbob Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 On 8/3/2019 at 11:19 AM, _The Doctor__ said: if it identified itself and you were able to see the firmware, it's alive. You need to do a factory reset and flash it. As I stated you need to use the device installer and java version that was in play during the mss 100's firmware timestamp. You might decide to use your XP machine for this. That's the rig I use for all the Lantronix stuff from back then. Although as I stated partial results can be had using later OS,installer, and java versions. Remember it has lengthy boot process and to give a long period of time for operations to complete. We are talking minutes not seconds. It's a great device. It copies flash rom to ram and decompresses everything and then grabs configs etc from flash then continues booting. because of multiple devices our mss100 has the firmware named mss100.sys this helps prevents flashing incorrect firmware. v3.8/1 | Ezwebcon v3.0/4 I usually use the serial port or telnet port though.... You can avoid navigating endless web pages using the ftp server, though the web pages can have good asides and hints ftp://ftp.lantronix.com/pub/ I appreciate everything said. I had the mss100.sys and device installer. . I could not keep it "alive" aka not rebooting long enough to flashare. According to the manual I do the reset button as it's booting.. done it several times. Not sure how to know it works. But that does not prevent the reboot cycle. I will try on xp box. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 (edited) yes with no power you press and hold in the button while plugging in an continue holding it in for more than 3 seconds... as stated it is normal for it to look like it reboots several times during the the process. you have to be patient... if you interrupt it during the actual firmware update, that can corrupt the flash and possibly the boot loader, if that happens you will have to open it up and use another method to do it... I forget which setup and cable is needed for that but I'm sure it's outlined somewhere on the web... did you see anything in your terminal like this somewhat normal boot? CDAA13D5-B329-4DCD-80C8-456A3CEBF61F.MOV Edited August 5, 2019 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tillek Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 21 hours ago, rcamp48 said: I guess that means its too hard to do, I already gave up and went back to what I had, it was a nice idea though..... Actually, it's the international Jackie Chan WTF meme. Basically, I don't even remotely get what you think you're trying to accomplish with what you think you're trying to do.... (I would have responded earlier but the company I work for limits a lot of internet access and I don't like to type long messages on the phone... so here goes). 1) Forget you ever heard of STing. You're trying to run a BBS on a decades old machine. Forget everything you think you know based on your experience with PC BBS's. There is only one BBS program I know of that might work on a TCP/IP stack and you're not running it. Forget that it exists. FoReM (and pretty much every other one except that one, which I won't name) is expecting to talk to a MODEM through a SERIAL connection. STing has nothing to do with this... can't help with this... 2) The "magic" by which it works through Telnet is the Lantronix box. FoReM think's it's talking to a Hayes AT compatible modem. It has no knowlege that ATDT 191.168.1.1, 23 actually uses the internet to connect to another system, and it doesn't give a flying fudge. 3) It is also a single caller BBS. There have been multi caller ones... Like the one that I won't name (it was never finished, and multi-caller required running multiple instances using a multi-tasking OS and using a Fido mailer to coordinate message base postings) and programs like MichTron that used specialized multi-serial port hardware. How did you think using STing and putting your UDS on your PC was going to make you a multi-user BBS? As someone who's been doing this since before it was cool, what are you trying to accomplish anyway? Focus on putting up a BBS that works. You're worrying about having multiple callers when you can't even get things stable for one caller. Let me assure you, if you can actually get a BBS that is so popular that you truly need to support multiple callers, you'll have people coming out of the woodwork to help you make it happen. You say you have 18 hours a day to put into this... I envy that. Put it into content. Put it into calling other BBS's so that SysOps feel compelled to maybe support you by calling back... Put it into coming up with original content so people want to call. Nice graphical screens... You call yourself a programmer... write a game or two (well, I'll tell you very few users care about that it seems... but then again, if you write a good one).... But this insanity serves no purpose. Work on a BBS that people actually want to call one at a time, and when it gets so busy that it becomes a problem for people to connect, then worry about the multi-user problem. Oh, and forget you ever heard about STing... apples and oranges. (Actually, more like apples and tofu). I'm not trying to be a dick here. I'm trying to keep you focused on making an actually good BBS and not keep "going down rabbit holes".... a phrase we software engineers use to mean "spending significant time going down a completely useless and time consuming path only to realize it's uselessness after significant resources were spent". Tell the programmer in you to go take a powder and let the artist in you come out and kick some butt. (Trust me, it's a lesson I need to make myself take to heart too). 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcamp48 Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 8 minutes ago, Tillek said: Actually, it's the international Jackie Chan WTF meme. Basically, I don't even remotely get what you think you're trying to accomplish with what you think you're trying to do.... (I would have responded earlier but the company I work for limits a lot of internet access and I don't like to type long messages on the phone... so here goes). 1) Forget you ever heard of STing. You're trying to run a BBS on a decades old machine. Forget everything you think you know based on your experience with PC BBS's. There is only one BBS program I know of that might work on a TCP/IP stack and you're not running it. Forget that it exists. FoReM (and pretty much every other one except that one, which I won't name) is expecting to talk to a MODEM through a SERIAL connection. STing has nothing to do with this... can't help with this... 2) The "magic" by which it works through Telnet is the Lantronix box. FoReM think's it's talking to a Hayes AT compatible modem. It has no knowlege that ATDT 191.168.1.1, 23 actually uses the internet to connect to another system, and it doesn't give a flying fudge. 3) It is also a single caller BBS. There have been multi caller ones... Like the one that I won't name (it was never finished, and multi-caller required running multiple instances using a multi-tasking OS and using a Fido mailer to coordinate message base postings) and programs like MichTron that used specialized multi-serial port hardware. How did you think using STing and putting your UDS on your PC was going to make you a multi-user BBS? As someone who's been doing this since before it was cool, what are you trying to accomplish anyway? Focus on putting up a BBS that works. You're worrying about having multiple callers when you can't even get things stable for one caller. Let me assure you, if you can actually get a BBS that is so popular that you truly need to support multiple callers, you'll have people coming out of the woodwork to help you make it happen. You say you have 18 hours a day to put into this... I envy that. Put it into content. Put it into calling other BBS's so that SysOps feel compelled to maybe support you by calling back... Put it into coming up with original content so people want to call. Nice graphical screens... You call yourself a programmer... write a game or two (well, I'll tell you very few users care about that it seems... but then again, if you write a good one).... But this insanity serves no purpose. Work on a BBS that people actually want to call one at a time, and when it gets so busy that it becomes a problem for people to connect, then worry about the multi-user problem. Oh, and forget you ever heard about STing... apples and oranges. (Actually, more like apples and tofu). I'm not trying to be a dick here. I'm trying to keep you focused on making an actually good BBS and not keep "going down rabbit holes".... a phrase we software engineers use to mean "spending significant time going down a completely useless and time consuming path only to realize it's uselessness after significant resources were spent". Tell the programmer in you to go take a powder and let the artist in you come out and kick some butt. (Trust me, it's a lesson I need to make myself take to heart too). Thanks Tillek, I too get out of focus, and spend way to much time on useless stuff, I will be working on the BBS itself, and of course calling others.... Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tillek Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 27 minutes ago, rcamp48 said: Thanks Tillek, I too get out of focus, and spend way to much time on useless stuff, I will be working on the BBS itself, and of course calling others.... Russ Hey, don't be afraid to call me out if you think I'm out of line. I'm not here to be agreed with unless you really agree. But seriously on the STing... If you don't understand why I say it's of no use to you, ask why.. let other people here chime in. If there is anything I said you're unsure about, or what to know more about, ask. It's my opinion. Others might share it, others might disagree, and that's good too.. that is where discussion comes from. Just don't take it blind. Don't take it without understanding it. Like I tell the young guys at work when I'm critiquing their work... "I only know this because I screwed it up once way worse than you did." You're a guy who has 18 hours a day to put into a BBS... that could be epic beyond anyone's expectations. Fly with it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bikerbob Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 18 hours ago, Tillek said: Hey, don't be afraid to call me out if you think I'm out of line. I'm not here to be agreed with unless you really agree. But seriously on the STing... If you don't understand why I say it's of no use to you, ask why.. let other people here chime in. If there is anything I said you're unsure about, or what to know more about, ask. It's my opinion. Others might share it, others might disagree, and that's good too.. that is where discussion comes from. Just don't take it blind. Don't take it without understanding it. Like I tell the young guys at work when I'm critiquing their work... "I only know this because I screwed it up once way worse than you did." You're a guy who has 18 hours a day to put into a BBS... that could be epic beyond anyone's expectations. Fly with it. OMG Russ, dont listen to a word Andrew says.... He is so ego inflated, self centred(note the canadian spelling) and believes himself the Atari Guru... . OH CRAP .. am I typing this out loud????? LMAO.. honestly.. I laughed my ass off when the Jackie Chan came up.. and YES I do beleive you are trying to make a Mountain out of a mole hill Russ.. IF you get it all up and running like you want.. before you end up punch the equipment out of frustration.. Have you seen all my msgs.. just to get a MSS-100 up and running??? no software yet.. just the hardware.. Then as Tillek says.. find more things to frustrate you.. Until then.. get a good bbs up and running.. and try your hand at some other stuff.. I think you have a few machines etc.. right??? James.. Hugs and Kisses Tillek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bikerbob Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 On 8/5/2019 at 12:05 AM, _The Doctor__ said: yes with no power you press and hold in the button while plugging in an continue holding it in for more than 3 seconds... as stated it is normal for it to look like it reboots several times during the the process. you have to be patient... if you interrupt it during the actual firmware update, that can corrupt the flash and possibly the boot loader, if that happens you will have to open it up and use another method to do it... I forget which setup and cable is needed for that but I'm sure it's outlined somewhere on the web... did you see anything in your terminal like this somewhat normal boot? CDAA13D5-B329-4DCD-80C8-456A3CEBF61F.MOV 83.95 MB · 2 downloads OK, tried it on the xp box.. I get the older Ezwebcon - give it a chance.. it finds it.. ok.. everything seems good.. use the command reload config.. it dies.. says receiving no requests from deivce.. do you wish to quit.. if I dont.. just sits there.. and the devices continues it cycle as it did before. I have not tried using the 850 cable and PR:connection to view the startup on the atari.. I can try and see what it says. SO.. I seem to be booting ok... but then it seems to loose everything and reboot.. does it happen all the time.. no idea.. but no matter what I do I cannot seem to get it "live" long enough to flash new config. Lucky for me I have not curropted anything yet as far as I am aware. OH sigh....... James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcamp48 Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 4 hours ago, Bikerbob said: OMG Russ, dont listen to a word Andrew says.... He is so ego inflated, self centred(note the canadian spelling) and believes himself the Atari Guru... . OH CRAP .. am I typing this out loud????? LMAO.. honestly.. I laughed my ass off when the Jackie Chan came up.. and YES I do beleive you are trying to make a Mountain out of a mole hill Russ.. IF you get it all up and running like you want.. before you end up punch the equipment out of frustration.. Have you seen all my msgs.. just to get a MSS-100 up and running??? no software yet.. just the hardware.. Then as Tillek says.. find more things to frustrate you.. Until then.. get a good bbs up and running.. and try your hand at some other stuff.. I think you have a few machines etc.. right??? James.. Hugs and Kisses Tillek Ya I know what you mean James, I just invested in 100 Chromebooks, and a few HP 10 inch tablets with Windows 8.1 on them, bad batteries in the HP tablets but really nice, anyways when I get the time I will put some more work into my BBS, at least I learned from the Doctor how to fix it when I screw it up bad. And that idea of running a BBS through a front end is not sa bad idea, but I have given up on it for now , I will let a few users call my BBS and will call others, but I spend a lot of time in Tim Hortons, and they block the outgoing ports there, not at home too often ..... but when I am I tend to work on the BBS, its a nice idea , going back in time to 1989, a time when cars were cheap and Atari Computers expensive , now its the other way around....Russ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tillek Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 4 hours ago, Bikerbob said: James.. Hugs and Kisses Tillek Ewww! I got Canadian Cooties.... Eh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tillek Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 23 minutes ago, rcamp48 said: Ya I know what you mean James, I just invested in 100 Chromebooks, and a few HP 10 inch tablets with Windows 8.1 on them, bad batteries in the HP tablets but really nice, anyways when I get the time I will put some more work into my BBS, at least I learned from the Doctor how to fix it when I screw it up bad. And that idea of running a BBS through a front end is not sa bad idea, but I have given up on it for now , I will let a few users call my BBS and will call others, but I spend a lot of time in Tim Hortons, and they block the outgoing ports there, not at home too often ..... but when I am I tend to work on the BBS, its a nice idea , going back in time to 1989, a time when cars were cheap and Atari Computers expensive , now its the other way around....Russ 100 Chromebooks? Wow... I thought I went off the deep end when I got 7 iPaq HX4700s awhile back... (Well, quite over a decade back now that I think about it). Might have to try Tim Horton's though... They JUST opened one of those in my area. I don't actually think you have bad ideas... just maybe not a full understanding of the limitations of the software and hardware you're running. It isn't a PC and things that are "assumed" or "easy" in the PC world (even back then) just aren't the same in the ST world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcamp48 Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 42 minutes ago, Tillek said: 100 Chromebooks? Wow... I thought I went off the deep end when I got 7 iPaq HX4700s awhile back... (Well, quite over a decade back now that I think about it). Might have to try Tim Horton's though... They JUST opened one of those in my area. I don't actually think you have bad ideas... just maybe not a full understanding of the limitations of the software and hardware you're running. It isn't a PC and things that are "assumed" or "easy" in the PC world (even back then) just aren't the same in the ST world. ya 100 chromebooks I am investing $300.00 Canadian in them basically they are good for the internet and not much more, but I am making a it of $$$ off each one , I won't tell you how cheap I get them, and yes I used to run a BBS back in the 80s , I am home now just looking up the value of the two HP Elite 900 G1 32 GIG 10 inch touch tablets that I picked up with the 10 Chromebooks, so far I like the Chromebooks much better than the HPs...… but I got them fairly cheap and they have Windows 8.1 Pro on them. You are right about one thing Tillek I lack focus so any input you have is more than welcome, y BBS has been up almost a month now , at least ever since I got the Lantronics UDS 10. I will call your BBS tonight , I have actually called it before under the name of The Master-Spy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 (edited) hmmm 100 pieces, 300 invested....could it be in the 3 canadian each range give or take... I'm glad you didn't tell us how cheap.... I mean if we knew... lol Edited August 7, 2019 by _The Doctor__ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckybuck Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 Just another crazy idea: OSS Newsletters were published via BBS, therefore, does anyone here has archived some of them? We already have: https://atariwiki.org/wiki/Wiki.jsp?page=Newsletters Would be great to get this completed. Further, just 2 ACTION! programs are missing, which were published by OSS BBS, too: https://atariwiki.org/wiki/Wiki.jsp?page=Action#section-Action-StillMissingGraphicsUtilitiesLibraryAndShapeEditor Would be even greater to get this completed. :-))) Thank you so much in advance. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcamp48 Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 35 minutes ago, luckybuck said: Just another crazy idea: OSS Newsletters were published via BBS, therefore, does anyone here has archived some of them? We already have: https://atariwiki.org/wiki/Wiki.jsp?page=Newsletters Would be great to get this completed. Further, just 2 ACTION! programs are missing, which were published by OSS BBS, too: https://atariwiki.org/wiki/Wiki.jsp?page=Action#section-Action-StillMissingGraphicsUtilitiesLibraryAndShapeEditor Would be even greater to get this completed. :-))) Thank you so much in advance. ? There is a bunch of Action! stuff in the KWEST library , those two programs could be there..... Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckybuck Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 (edited) Russ, would you like to become Atari man of the month? ? Do you have a direct link to? Else, can you look for these two? Would like to insert you at the Wiki with that finding, of course. ? Edited August 7, 2019 by luckybuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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