Difficulty A Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Howdy folks and Happy New Year. Been a long time since I've posted here, but still happy to say that my "Cleaning my Atari 2600" story remains the most popular post on my blog, getting about 12-20 hits a day. Anyways, I was hoping to write yet another romantic/übergeeky story of how I brought a Darth Vader model from dusty bin to shining (death) star. Specifically for this resto project I bought Mother's Back to Black potion, as it had been recommended over Armor All, and I thought it'd be perfect for the all-black finish as well. But of course, before any cleaning was to be done, I plugged it in to see if it worked. It turned on like a charm, but it's stuck in "game select" mode, as if someone was holding down the Game Select switch. It even ignores my attempt to start a game as well. Ugh. I opened it up, and can't find any apparent reason for this; it actually wasn't too dusty inside either, and no obvious signs of corrosion anywhere. I gave it a once over with an air can but still no go. Should I try to clean the contacts within the Game Select switch housing? Or... Thanks in advance for your help and/or suggestions. I was really looking forward to cleaning this baby up…I'll still do it, most likely, but I just wish it worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benzman66 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 (edited) Spray some contact cleaner in the switch and work the switch up and down a few times. See if that fixes things. Might be that ever popular IC chip issue too! Edited January 7, 2011 by Benzman66 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tz101 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Could just need a new select switch. Contact Best Electronics and break out the soldering iron... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Difficulty A Posted January 7, 2011 Author Share Posted January 7, 2011 @Benzman: Thanks! I'll try that. @tz101: You know, I've always wanted to learn how to solder. My pop-in-law's an electronic engineer, does that stuff all the time. ::taps on shoulder:: Thanks for the tip! I'll keep everyone updated on progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.J. Franzman Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 (edited) The Game Select and Game Reset switches are "normally open", which means that for a console to act as if one of them is always pressed, there are two possibilities: either A) there is a short circuit within the switch, or between the relevant signal path and ground, OR B) the 6532 RIOT IC (a.k.a. Atari part number CO10750, which is what reads the switch position) has an internal failure. RIOT failures are unfortunately very common, so I suspect this is most likely what's wrong with your unit. Edited January 7, 2011 by A.J. Franzman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Difficulty A Posted January 8, 2011 Author Share Posted January 8, 2011 Hoo boy. Totally clueless on testing for short circuits and grounds--the closest I've gotten to that was the movie and making coffee. Never worked on electronic components before aside from cleaning. Is the RIOT chip replaceable or cleanable? Let me know if any of these are really involved processes meant for those with advanced knowledge. Also, I notice you work on the consoles yourself--how much would you estimate for service on this to get it running? Thanks for your input, it is appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benzman66 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 While most boards have IC chips that are socketed, some Vader boards unfortunately do not. You would have to remove the silver cover to see. If they are, all you have to do is pop the bad one out and put another one in. If they are soldered, then it can be a pain. Cleaning would not help unless they are really corroded for some reason. The RIOT chip is the closest one to the game slot. It isn't a time consuming fix. AJ does repair & has a price list link in his signature. I also do repairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Difficulty A Posted January 10, 2011 Author Share Posted January 10, 2011 Ok, so I popped off that silver cover with my fingers crossed. No luck, the chips are soldered. AJ, are you local (L.A.)? I'll msg you regarding a fix, if possible. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.J. Franzman Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Local? Well, I wasn't aware we had a lunar colony yet, but I'm only about 400,000 km from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowCoder Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 (edited) Local? Well, I wasn't aware we had a lunar colony yet, but I'm only about 400,000 km from there. I knew your response would be something along those lines Difficulty A (I like your name by the way): This forum has memberships from all over the world. You might be ok to inquire about people who live in your area who may be willing to help. But I think most of these guys are more about teaching you to fix, rather than do it for you. Another alternative: I believe there's a guy here, name unknown, who has an Atari repair service. You'd mail the console to him. But you might also be well served to just get another Vader if you're not confident enough in fixing it yourself. Edited January 11, 2011 by SlowCoder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Difficulty A Posted January 15, 2011 Author Share Posted January 15, 2011 Hmm. I get reminded of that "give a fish/teach a man how to fish" story. Anyways, I've consulted with my pop-in-law who's an electronic engineer and has the tools to replace the RIOT chip, so we'll try it together. I suppose I can buy that part from you, AJ? And yes, my Lunar Colony is situated in Los Angeles. My original intent (before finding out it was screwy) was to get this Vader system modded for composite connectors, or better yet(?) the Cybertech S-video mod, which I noticed is no longer available anywhere (were they that popular or what happened?). By the way, I'm sure there's threads on this somewhere, but does anyone have any recommendations regarding these mods? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zylon Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Modding for video is much tougher on boards with soldered chips, but still doable. Personally, I'd mod a different one also for the ease of future repairs as well. So far, only about 20% of the all black decks I've had weren't socketed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.J. Franzman Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 (edited) I've consulted with my pop-in-law who's an electronic engineer and has the tools to replace the RIOT chip, so we'll try it together. I suppose I can buy that part from you, AJ? And yes, my Lunar Colony is situated in Los Angeles. Sorry, I don't sell parts. You can get one from the same place that I usually buy from, Best Electronics. Unfortunately, they have a minimum order total. I think it's $25 before S&H. I am in eastern L.A. county, so saving shipping charges by in-person delivery might be a viable option depending on what part of L.A. you're in, if you change your mind and decide to let me to have a go at fixing it. Cost would be $12 for service, $10 for the RIOT and $3.00 for a socket, if my remote diagnosis turns out to be correct. So, it would cost about the same as getting the part yourself from Best, but you'd miss out on the fun of fixing it yourself learning how to fish. Edited January 16, 2011 by A.J. Franzman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Difficulty A Posted February 24, 2011 Author Share Posted February 24, 2011 Thanks for the offer. I went ahead and ordered a new momentary switch from Best Electronics after consulting with the rep on the phone, who recommended testing the OHMs on the switch for any inconsistency. Thanks to my pop-in-law, we did find something weird with it, so we'll start off with the switch replacement. It'll be fun learning how to solder, and hopefully the switch is what's causing the problem. I'll keep you posted on results. BTW, Best Electronics is amazing. I had no idea there was such a huge resource for vintage Atari fans. They rule! =) I've consulted with my pop-in-law who's an electronic engineer and has the tools to replace the RIOT chip, so we'll try it together. I suppose I can buy that part from you, AJ? And yes, my Lunar Colony is situated in Los Angeles. Sorry, I don't sell parts. You can get one from the same place that I usually buy from, Best Electronics. Unfortunately, they have a minimum order total. I think it's $25 before S&H. I am in eastern L.A. county, so saving shipping charges by in-person delivery might be a viable option depending on what part of L.A. you're in, if you change your mind and decide to let me to have a go at fixing it. Cost would be $12 for service, $10 for the RIOT and $3.00 for a socket, if my remote diagnosis turns out to be correct. So, it would cost about the same as getting the part yourself from Best, but you'd miss out on the fun of fixing it yourself learning how to fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigO Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Thanks for the offer. I went ahead and ordered a new momentary switch from Best Electronics after consulting with the rep on the phone, who recommended testing the OHMs on the switch for any inconsistency. Thanks to my pop-in-law, we did find something weird with it, so we'll start off with the switch replacement. It'll be fun learning how to solder, and hopefully the switch is what's causing the problem. I'll keep you posted on results. BTW, Best Electronics is amazing. I had no idea there was such a huge resource for vintage Atari fans. They rule! =) I've consulted with my pop-in-law who's an electronic engineer and has the tools to replace the RIOT chip, so we'll try it together. I suppose I can buy that part from you, AJ? And yes, my Lunar Colony is situated in Los Angeles. Sorry, I don't sell parts. You can get one from the same place that I usually buy from, Best Electronics. Unfortunately, they have a minimum order total. I think it's $25 before S&H. I am in eastern L.A. county, so saving shipping charges by in-person delivery might be a viable option depending on what part of L.A. you're in, if you change your mind and decide to let me to have a go at fixing it. Cost would be $12 for service, $10 for the RIOT and $3.00 for a socket, if my remote diagnosis turns out to be correct. So, it would cost about the same as getting the part yourself from Best, but you'd miss out on the fun of fixing it yourself learning how to fish. If you're taking the switch out anyway, you can determine for sure if the switch itself is the problem. Just power up and test the unit with the switch removed. As A.J. said earlier, it's a normally open switch. If the switch is the problem, the problem will go away when the switch is removed. Since you have a hardcore electronics guy involved, he'll probably be interested in this page with schematics for the system: http://www.atariage.com/2600/archives/schematics/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Difficulty A Posted February 26, 2011 Author Share Posted February 26, 2011 If you're taking the switch out anyway, you can determine for sure if the switch itself is the problem. Just power up and test the unit with the switch removed. As A.J. said earlier, it's a normally open switch. If the switch is the problem, the problem will go away when the switch is removed. Since you have a hardcore electronics guy involved, he'll probably be interested in this page with schematics for the system: http://www.atariage.com/2600/archives/schematics/index.html I'll definitely try it when we take the switch out. Thanks for the tip. Awesome schematics! Thanks for the link, I'm sure he'll find it useful when we pursue the composite mod which Best Electronics has for $20. That'll likely be the next project after I get this Vader system back in shape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Difficulty A Posted August 4, 2011 Author Share Posted August 4, 2011 Ok folks. Been a long time but I'm back with an update. With not-so-good news. My pop-in-law was able to find a socket, and he went ahead and applied it to the board and plugged the RIOT in. He told me to take it for a spin, and I did...and the screen is just blank—completely black with a thin vertical blue/purple line on the left side of the screen. It does this with or without a cartridge plugged in. I took shots of the TV screen and will gladly send them to anyone who would want to help out. He's always ultra-meticulous and super-careful when he does work, so I can't figure out what went wrong, unless somehow he touched something he wasn't supposed to by accident? Any thoughts? If you're taking the switch out anyway, you can determine for sure if the switch itself is the problem. Just power up and test the unit with the switch removed. As A.J. said earlier, it's a normally open switch. If the switch is the problem, the problem will go away when the switch is removed. Since you have a hardcore electronics guy involved, he'll probably be interested in this page with schematics for the system: http://www.atariage.com/2600/archives/schematics/index.html I'll definitely try it when we take the switch out. Thanks for the tip. Awesome schematics! Thanks for the link, I'm sure he'll find it useful when we pursue the composite mod which Best Electronics has for $20. That'll likely be the next project after I get this Vader system back in shape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Difficulty A Posted August 4, 2011 Author Share Posted August 4, 2011 Ah. Just realized I can attach photographs here. Well, here you go. Sorry I couldn't block out the light coming in from the windows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tz101 Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 I'm not an expert, but a striped screen is most often a sign of a toasted chip. Exactly which one is beyond my limited understanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zylon Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Most of those vaders with soldered chips I've dealt with had a bad TIA chip(furthest one from cart port). I just scrap those for switches, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benzman66 Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 You sure that the chip is put in going the correct direction? No prongs bent on the chip? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Difficulty A Posted August 5, 2011 Author Share Posted August 5, 2011 Thanks for your input, folks. I'm wondering if Best Electronics sent me a faulty chip. Everything was fine beforehand (aside from the "endless game select mode" which was why I started this topic in the first place). I wish I had another RIOT chip to swap it out with to troubleshoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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