Underball Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 There seems to be an awful lot of this kind of kidding, (but not really kidding), smug looking down upon the community at large here on AA. You're right, I was trying to be playful, but I'm also serious. I was hoping a lighter tone would make it easier to swallow. But I'm sincere about this point: Volunteering is a lot of work. Benefiting from unpaid work is a lot less so, even when it doesn't go how you hoped. Is it too smug to ask for some understanding? Some users want a 'finished product from a faceless corporation'. If the designers shared that mindset, it would all be a lot more professional, but there would be no more new products past 1988 or so. The products you get now don't work under a professional philosophy, because profiting is impossible. Since then, we've been under the volunteer/donation philosophy. But seriously, if you're going to throw yourself out there and jump into one of these endeavors, though the community at large may benefit from your actions, the decision is yours alone. That's true, but I'm holding out an olive branch to the community here and asking for some more empathy. I understand people get frustrated when they don't have their new toy. I just want you to imagine how much more difficult that can be on the designer's side, especially when it starts compounding. Two against one is unfair. Five against one, and you look for the exit. Not everyone is going to agree with your choices, and really - no one should be expected to really "care" about your losses if things don't work out as planned. Someone has to keep this volunteer program going. And if it's not the people who benefit from it, it won't be the ones who put in the hours and max out their credit cards. You have to be incredibly gracious to get all the way to the end of a project here, because a few bad apples always slow you down. Some designers are so unbelievably cool you might mistake them for professionals. They're still volunteers. The more gracious designers are reading this thread too, but they're too smart to butt in. (Unlike me!) You think this kind of bickering only affects Curt? Maybe extending an olive branch to the beehive wasn't the best plan. Back to lurking. - KS This really is a fantastic reply. Thanks. I agree wholeheartly with all of it. I think what I was pointing out was that your humorously thorny olive branch is a dangerous game here sometimes. But I certainly appreciate the humor, even if others don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cebus Capucinis Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 I just wanted to take a moment to let everyone know that approximately 15 seconds ago I input all my address, payment info, and everything, and clicked the 'CHECKOUT' button to ensure there's 1 less pre-order that Curt and Marty et al have to fill out. Even after all the skepticism, all the debate, all the insults and all the diatribes, I am still putting my money where my mouth is and supporting Legacy Engineering and everything they do. I have nothing but faith in their ability to create an awesome, amazing product that will stand the test of time and be something we can all be proud of supporting. I am disappointed in my own tardiness in showing that support, but the time has finally come and I have enough loose funds available from sales to do what I wanted to do from the very beginning: Support hobby development of a project in a big way. I eagerly (and patiently) await Curt and co.'s shipment of what I know will be a painstakingly amazing and wonderful project. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+wood_jl Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 WHEN IS ENOUGH ENOUGH? KNOCK IT OFF. The user reviews on Amazon.com have a "was this post helpful to you?" (or similar) and you can vote "no" and if enough people do, it won't show. Here, we have "+" button, but we really need a "-" button, so it can hide the post, or better yet, eject the offending poster from the thread. Maybe that's not a feature to be added to forum software? Perhaps an authority here can do it manually? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroo-man Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 I don't want to get in the crossfire, but I think there is a little confusion going on here regarding which "god" comment is being referenced. Wasn't it sermajic's comment that pushed Curt over the edge, not Shawn Sr.'s? I don't think it's necessary to rehash the issue any more (and perhaps it was a mistake for me to even mention it); as you say, one of the main instigators has already been deservedly banned. I quoted what I interpreted to be the offending comments in my earlier post, but whether it was those remarks or someone else picking them up and running with them, what was said was said. Let's leave it at that before this thread goes any further off-track. he's right though it was this comment here that broke the camels back same thing happened with flashback 2 , the "god" did not even care enough to give minimum details of it in order to make the system compatible with the larger games he is always busy on the "next big thing" you flamed the crap out of that poor dude for nothing 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abaudrand Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 ok, It was supposed to be the XM status forum so could you do a new thread for homebrewing support discussion and stop overflowing this thread? (and yes I support the XM team as I ordered it too ) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underball Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 ok, It was supposed to be the XM status forum so could you do a new thread for homebrewing support discussion and stop overflowing this thread? (and yes I support the XM team as I ordered it too ) It would likely be deleted within minutes of being started. Any opinions expressed here that fall short of full and complete support for really anything being discussed is tantamount to heresy, and must be stricken from the record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubular Gearhead Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 (edited) ok, It was supposed to be the XM status forum so could you do a new thread for homebrewing support discussion and stop overflowing this thread? (and yes I support the XM team as I ordered it too ) It would likely be deleted within minutes of being started. Any opinions expressed here that fall short of full and complete support for really anything being discussed is tantamount to heresy, and must be stricken from the record. Oh come on now Underball, you know you love the way the XM is coming together just as much as the rest of us. In common parlance, a devil's advocate is someone who, given a certain argument, takes a position he or she does not necessarily agree with, just for the sake of argument. In taking such position, the individual taking on the devil's advocate role seeks to engage others in an argumentative discussion process. Edited July 28, 2011 by Tubular Gearhead 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underball Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 ok, It was supposed to be the XM status forum so could you do a new thread for homebrewing support discussion and stop overflowing this thread? (and yes I support the XM team as I ordered it too ) It would likely be deleted within minutes of being started. Any opinions expressed here that fall short of full and complete support for really anything being discussed is tantamount to heresy, and must be stricken from the record. Oh come on now Underball, you know you love the way the XM is coming together just as much as the rest of us. In common parlance, a devil's advocate is someone who, given a certain argument, takes a position he or she does not necessarily agree with, just for the sake of argument. In taking such position, the individual taking on the devil's advocate role seeks to engage others in an argumentative discussion process. I love the idea of the XM. I really do hope it delivers what everyone expects it will. And now that Bob is back in the fold, the chances of that happening are increased exponentially. My only qualm with the whole thing from the beginning was about XM software. Software volume and quality typically dictate how successful a console or platform will be. Even though the project has been inadvertently delayed by a number of months, the number and available details of games announced hasn't increased. In fact, it's regressed - as a number of projects have been abandoned. I know that there are supposedly some secret projects in the works that haven't been announced, but that's still yet to be seen. I'm not stating this to discourage anyone. I want the XM to be a smashing success. But these are the facts. I'd love for them to be different/more positive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cebus Capucinis Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 It would likely be deleted within minutes of being started. Any opinions expressed here that fall short of full and complete support for really anything being discussed is tantamount to heresy, and must be stricken from the record. Goodbye. Go ignore repeated moderator warnings in some other thread. Anyone else want to continue dragging each other through the mud? KEEP IT ON TOPIC. A little constructive criticism is acceptable, and users being concerned is understandable, but if you have any concerns about the XM itself, Curt will address them. Only Curt and Marty have the answers, so taking potshots at EACH OTHER isn't going to solve anything and it isn't going to make anyone else interested in this project. You want new projects? You want cool toys? Stop acting like children. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 My only qualm with the whole thing from the beginning was about XM software. Software volume and quality typically dictate how successful a console or platform will be. Even though the project has been inadvertently delayed by a number of months, the number and available details of games announced hasn't increased. In fact, it's regressed - as a number of projects have been abandoned. I know that there are supposedly some secret projects in the works that haven't been announced, but that's still yet to be seen. I guess you missed this thread :- http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/184888-homebrew-coding-weekend-2/ At that event I demoed XM compatible games and some other unannounced stuff to a room full of people. You also seem to have ignored my other post in this thread stating that all my games will be XM releases too. When I look on my hard drive I see plenty of projects for the 7800. Some announced, some unannounced, some games, some not. There is plenty to look forward to in the 7800 scene. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cebus Capucinis Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 My only qualm with the whole thing from the beginning was about XM software. Software volume and quality typically dictate how successful a console or platform will be. Even though the project has been inadvertently delayed by a number of months, the number and available details of games announced hasn't increased. In fact, it's regressed - as a number of projects have been abandoned. I know that there are supposedly some secret projects in the works that haven't been announced, but that's still yet to be seen. I guess you missed this thread :- http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/184888-homebrew-coding-weekend-2/ At that event I demoed XM compatible games and some other unannounced stuff to a room full of people. You also seem to have ignored my other post in this thread stating that all my games will be XM releases too. When I look on my hard drive I see plenty of projects for the 7800. Some announced, some unannounced, some games, some not. There is plenty to look forward to in the 7800 scene. That's very funny, because when I look at my PayPal account I see all this money with 'GROOVYBEE GAMES' listed on it. Strange! I think we are nearing completion on the XM project daily and will see these bad boys in the mail for us to enjoy soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacManPlus Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Guys, can I ask a question? I'm really not trying to stir up anything (hopefully you guys know me better than that)... and I don't mean to go off topic - I won't after this post. I don't know if I am missing something, but I don't get all this hatred for Underball... From what I can see, he's only ever asked what games will be completed for the XM when it finally ships? I understand Groovy Bee doesn't want to say anything (it's fun to announce games when they are completed) Heck I wasn't going to announce Moon Cresta until it was done but I needed a question answered), but I don't think he's said anything *derogatory* about the XM curt, or anyone, no? As a matter of fact in the last post he said "I'm not stating this to discourage anyone. I want the XM to be a smashing success. But these are the facts. I'd love for them to be different/more positive." It sounded like it had more to do with him being concerned about what was going to be playable with the XM upon release. Did something else happen somewhere? I'm not being funny or anything, and again I don't meant to start anything... I just don't understand. Thanks, Bob 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh3-rg Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 I only ordered my XM last week, I'd been putting it off until they started shipping. Not because I thought there would be problems, more that I'm just lazy and don't get around to doing stuff like that until I really have to. After recent goings-on here I thought better of my wait-and-see laziness and put my money up to show my support. I'm not really what you'd call a fan of the 7800 but it's had its moments for me occasionally. The XM makes it a much more attractive prospect and has me interested in the system again, so I'm looking forward to it and to other 7800 hardware and software I've heard snippets about... there's a Falcon060-shaped pile of dust on my desk that might just have to permanently make way for something taller, darker & more handsome Forum drama crap below, feel free to ignore: From what I can see, he's only ever asked what games will be completed for the XM when it finally ships? Time for an Underball Appreciation thread? If by only you mean repeatedly and by asked you mean demanded and by ever you mean apart from all the rude,flaming and demanding prior posts then yes, you're spot on If you were to look back to the XM games thread he made his point last year, as did a few others and that's fair enough. If he'd left it at that then no harm done, he'd have had his say and that's all well and good. Nobody is being forced into buying an XM knowing there will be an initially slow period game-wise. Some people will buy it, others will wait. Simple. When you read through all 27 pages of this thread and the other XM threads & see how many times he manages not only to repeat himself over and over with the same kinds of demands, but when he's actually made aware of info on more XM games, well, they don't interest him - he wants more games that are worthy of the system. Photos/screenshots - well they could be photoshopped - he wants videos. Something tells me if he saw videos he'd still not be happy and would continue to whine about something else that would upset and annoy developers. If the XM was a product being sold as a device that came with a stack of included games, then he'd have every right to keep pushing for more information on them. As it is, the software is being made by people like yourself & those people are free to say anything, everything or nothing about what they do in their own free time. If that makes the XM less attractive for him, that's his call... but he can STFU about it & live with it instead of pissing off active, productive people as followers of this forum have recently seen - it's massively demotivating. It really looks like he has issues with person or persons involved with XM - there are strong hints of it in this very thread. It's naive to suggest he's simply asking for XM game info by quoting one post from a few hours ago when this has been going on for months. What he's doing is more like a sly and sustained attempt to undermine the XM or people involved with it for reasons only he could explain. Acting that way over a long period of time is more difficult for users and moderators to pick up on compared to the outright trolling Curt was recently subjected to, but it needs to be dealt with the same way or the wrong people end up getting pissed off, lose interest and pack it all in. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorfcadet Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Just ordered mine! Can't wait guys! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+wood_jl Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 (edited) I don't know if I am missing something, but I don't get all this hatred for Underball... From what I can see, he's only ever asked what games will be completed for the XM when it finally ships? Well, he's just been nay-saying it, for the six months that this thread has been in existence. The thing to do, is just NOT BUY ONE if you feel it's not worth it to you personally, and MOVE ON. I don't understand the motivation behind constantly ripping on and taking shots at somebody else's project. It's quite understandable that this is frustrating to people who "make stuff" and his attitude is as if this is WALMART screwing people with false promises, rather than a grassroots/hobbiest type thing. I just don't get it. I'm impressed with all that you guys do. He just likes to trash people's projects. He took every opportunuty to trash Stoneage Gamer, who is a fine repackager/seller of Everdrive carts, with whom I've had nothing but excellent service and quality from. If you check this thread, you'll see that he was just SPOILING for a pissing contest. Somehow, this is recreation. He doesn't HAVE to buy from Stoneage Gamer, so what's the motive????? http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/183731-everdrive-questions/ [starting on post #15] But back to this 7800 XM thread: Look how long the constant criticism/antagonism/pollution has been going on - since the thread was brand new, and shots were just fired nearly every day, AS IF SOMEONE WAS FORCING HIM TO BUY ONE. Thread is 27 pages long, but isn't the start memorable enough. Here's the early highlight reel, antagonizing AtariNerd for merely attempting to generate interest, and bothering Groovybee as if he was a forced customer, too.... Right now, we are a few shy of 200 units ordered pre-release, which is excellent, but would be more excellent, still, if we could get several new would-be buyers to push us over the top. Make some XM game announcements with projected release dates. As of right now there is still only 1 game being worked on that is a XM game - Dungeon. Everything else is HSC but not XM, or a pokey sound hack, neither of which require an XM. The rest are all rumored/cancelled vaporware that will likely never see that light of day. I don't see the point without any games fir it. Every time I open one of these XM status threads to read the latest posts, instead of being greeted with news about games coming for it, I see atarinerd making his 45th post in a row begging people to buy mire XM units to get to yet another magical plateau of units sold. Faith? LOL! So are we buying a consumer product, or a religion? I'm not real big on the occult. I prefer tangible evidence. Preferably in black plastic cartridge form. I'm not acting any way towards Mark. I'm discussing the fact that there haven't been barely any game announcements. Mark chooses to reply to that by getting defensive and rolling his eyes, that's his choice. I'm not attacking him or anyone else. Emphasis mine :- Volume of titles isn't even the issue. Quality is. So far it looks as if Dungeon is the only title so far that has features that are XM dependent. That you know of. So for all intents and purposes, they don't exist. I wouldn't be asking to see more games if I wasn't interested in it. I am. If I weren't interested, I would just ignore it. The issues with Mark are all his. I simply asked what other games are coming and he makes sarcastic, condescending remarks in reply. His game Dungeon does look interesting to me, what little we've seen of it. But one game doesn't warrant buying the system to me. What I don't get is all the secrecy. If programmers aren't ready to announce titles yet, fine. But Mark keeps jabbing away with snarky comments like "that you know of". Well, by all means, enlighten us, dude. Really, I wouldn't even have brought the whole shared source code argument into this if he didn't publicly challenge me to make my own XM games. I'm trying to be as polite as possible here. Mark is clearly doing the opposite, yet he's allowed to be condescending and rude, and it's my fault? C'mon. Edited July 28, 2011 by wood_jl 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tep392 Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Curt posted an update on his status page. Sounds like there are still some bugs being found. Also, the firmware will be updatable, which is good to know. Perry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Random Terrain Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 You want cool toys? Stop acting like children. Only children can play with toys, but adults who want to play with toys must act like children, but if they act like children, they cannot play with toys. Illogical! Illogical! Please explain! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzVxsYzXI_Y&rel=0&fmt=35&showinfo=0&start=90 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariNerd Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Curt posted an update on his status page. Sounds like there are still some bugs being found. Also, the firmware will be updatable, which is good to know. Perry Excellent. The prospect of a possible built-in game in the future was something that a couple of people had suggested as a percieved-value add. If it happens, great, but it's understandable if that space might be considered better used for other things. Somethig akin to the SEGA snail game? Adversity often neccesitates invention. Things may not neccesarily go completely as planned, but often the results wind up being "very interesting". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dino Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 The way to view projects like the XM is very different from the purchase of an "off the shelf" product that you would buy from Walmart. Here you are a "venture capitalist", investing in the "next big thing" for the 7800. There were no guarantees that it would come to fruition when we ponied up our cash. What if Curt hit some development hurdles that made the project unviable? or if there was an unexpected increase in some parts costs that made the product too costly to produce? If the product does come good, then as an investor, you get your return on your investment - an XM. Sure, you can sit on the sideline and let others put up the cash for this to be developed, but if we all did that, then there would be no XM. If anyone has issues with not receiving the joystick they bought from Curt 20 years ago, or the are disappointed with some functionality (or lack thereof) of the FB2 etc, then this thread is not the right forum to express their disappointment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 An update on the games front. All my games except Harry's Hen House and Tempest now require an XM to be played. I'm still interested in porting Chuckie Egg (from the original BBC micro source code) so when that comes up on my todo list it will take priority over Harry's Hen House (my clone/tribute to the game). Chuckie Egg will also be an XM mandatory title too. As I mentioned previously, it'll never be a cart release (that's part of the conditions for getting the source) so you'll need a CC2 or H2 to play it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorfcadet Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Does the AA store usually carry the CC2 or the H2? And How much do they cost? I'm supposing I'm going to want one eventually I keep seeing everyone post such really cool stuff and its killing me that I can't try any of it yet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 I think it's time we all tried to put this negativity behind us ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Does the AA store usually carry the CC2 or the H2? Unfortunately not. The CC2's last production run was several years ago now. The H2 is an upcoming project with no fixed shipping deadline (pretty much like all hobby projects). And How much do they cost? Expect to pay several hundred dollars for a CC2. For the H2 that's batari's call. I'm supposing I'm going to want one eventually I keep seeing everyone post such really cool stuff and its killing me that I can't try any of it yet. Just download an emulator (if that's your thing). All the games should work fine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorfcadet Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Don't laugh.. my home computer is ten years old. I teach Journalism I have a lab of high end Macs so I never update my home stuff. I know 7800 emulation isn't taxing even for a p4 but I hate using that old computer... my wife needs it otherwise I would never power it up. I guess I'll give it a whirl. I really prefer playing stuff on my real 7800/2600 hence why I dropped the coin on the XM. I really can't wait to put it next to my Sega32XCD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Usotsuki Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 It sounds like my idea to get a DOS onto the XM and use SIO disk drives may have merit as a way to get games onto the XM, if flashcarts are made of unobtanium... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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