Bradsco Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I feel compelled to write in light of recent events here. Curt (and the XM team), As a patient pre-order customer I give you my unmitigated thanks for all the hard work you've put forth and continue to do so for the sake of all the hobbyists and enthusiast out there. I, for one, don't expect anything except for your talent and love for the Atari products to continue to flourish, regardless of detractors. Harsh words are something no-one likes to hear, especially those aired in public which should be left in private. I would only ask that you keep moving forward on the projects at hand. Again, thank you very much for everything you do. Certainly praise should carry more weight than troll fodder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atariman Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I'm ready to buy another 100 XMs just to say thanks to Curt. Same here (sadly, I don't have the money to do that, though... ) - I'm actually a little surprised that folks have let the couple of douchebags get under their skin lately. We've ALWAYS had trolls here on AA (they come and they go), so I'm saddened that a couple of them wound up being the last straw for some of the pillars of the AA community. Anyway, I'm still very much looking forward to the XM and hope that Curt and others will continue to forge ahead. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoyx Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I just cancelled. Will re-order after I am done moving. One less thing to worry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBomber Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 At one time it did say on the Legacy Engineer XM store page that the pre-order money was non refundable. The people who believed and wanted the XM to happen took a risk with their own money. This was never clear. I take non-refundable to mean that I was paying ahead of time for a product and I couldn't cancel and get my money back, not that I was paying for a product that I may or may not ever receive. I appreciate the time and energy involved in this project. I think a lot of the unhappiness stems from the unrealistic projected ship dates. The XM was never going to ship on November 30th, 2010 and posting that as a projected ship date only frustrated (understandably) those who had put their money down. The additional projected ship dates added to that frustration. I think things are better now with fairly regular updates and the understanding that the project is proceeding and it will ship when it is done. On a side note, while I'm sorry that Curt was upset by some of the unnecessary snide remarks, I actually think it's a positive development that there likely won't be keyboards or other peripherals made. The 7800 is a console, not a computer. I'm looking forward to the games and I think it's better for the scene if it doesn't get sidetracked by expensive hardware projects when the 7800 with XM is going to be more than capable of playing some great games. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lendorien Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 (edited) Well, I caught up on the drama in previous posts and I do have to make some comments. First: The address change thing was a legitimate concern, though it did seem to be resolved pretty quickly. I don't understand why people kept harping on it. Second: Some of the frustration we're seeing here is from the delay in getting the project out. The missed release dates have not helped. I think it's natural for people to get a little impatient after 10 months. That said, this project is not like the next ipad, where release dates are set and met by a big company. Frankly, the XM is far more involved and expensive than pretty much any other homebrew project for the Atari brand that has been done up to this point. More than that, it's being developed and built a small group of people. With that in mind, it makes sense that there may be unanticipated delays. To those who are afraid they're being "ripped off, by a project that will never materialize" let me say that you're not arguing from a strong position. Curt has a solid reputation in this community, and he has offered a lot to the members here in his work on Atari History, homebrew projects and the like. The vast majority trust him to follow through, because they know his character. We also have been following the project Status page for the past months where we can see progress occurring, even if it is slower than many of us would like. The accusation that it's never going to materialize is frankly, obtuse. Third: Curt, we live in an "instant gratification" society and there are a lot of people who just don't know how to handle delays. As someone who works in retail, believe me, I have seen it all when it comes to customers throwing fits over things that the retailer cannot control. It's the realm you step into when you decide to sell something. In the end you try to make most of your customers happy, but recognize that you can't make all of them such. Offering refunds is a nice gesture and after so many delays, probably welcome to some, but I'm guessing most of us are more than happy to continue waiting. I respect your decision to throw in the towel on hardware projects when the XM is done, but I do ask that you step back and try not to let the few who are acting in an immature manner to drive you away from the scene. Forums such as Atariage attract people from all walks of life, and that includes people who delight in behaving badly because of the anonymity the internet provides. I strongly encourage you to try not to take their attacks too personally. You have a lot of excited supporters here who far outweigh the few bad eggs. Don't let the trolls color your perception of the rest of us. Edited July 24, 2011 by Lendorien 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 More than that, it's being developed and built more or less by one person. That statement is incorrect. There are several people working on the project with Curt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lendorien Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 (edited) That statement is incorrect. There are several people working on the project with Curt. My apologies. The statement in question has been corrected. Edited July 24, 2011 by Lendorien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 On a side note, while I'm sorry that Curt was upset by some of the unnecessary snide remarks, I actually think it's a positive development that there likely won't be keyboards or other peripherals made. The 7800 is a console, not a computer. Nope! The 7800 was supposed to be a computer too :- http://www.atarimuseum.com/videogames/consoles/7800/7800keyboard.html With BASIC and a word processor. " The Computer Keyboard add-on plugged into joystick port #2 with an accompanying cartridges turned the 7800 into a full blown 8-bit computer system. The keyboard even had an Atari SIO (Serial I/O) connector for using Atari XL Computer System peripherals like cassette recorders, printers and even a disk drive. OSS (Optimized Software Systems) wrote OSS/Atari 7800 Basic so that users could do Basic programming on the 7800 with the Computer add-on." was taken from :- http://www.atarimuseum.com/videogames/consoles/7800/7800menu/ I'm looking forward to the games and I think it's better for the scene if it doesn't get sidetracked by expensive hardware projects when the 7800 with XM is going to be more than capable of playing some great games. So you'll be wanting batari and his team to stop development of the H2 as well then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 My apologies. The statement in question has been corrected. Thanks! The list of team members is on the PCB and in the user manual too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBomber Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 On a side note, while I'm sorry that Curt was upset by some of the unnecessary snide remarks, I actually think it's a positive development that there likely won't be keyboards or other peripherals made. The 7800 is a console, not a computer. Nope! The 7800 was supposed to be a computer too :- http://www.atarimuseum.com/videogames/consoles/7800/7800keyboard.html With BASIC and a word processor. " The Computer Keyboard add-on plugged into joystick port #2 with an accompanying cartridges turned the 7800 into a full blown 8-bit computer system. The keyboard even had an Atari SIO (Serial I/O) connector for using Atari XL Computer System peripherals like cassette recorders, printers and even a disk drive. OSS (Optimized Software Systems) wrote OSS/Atari 7800 Basic so that users could do Basic programming on the 7800 with the Computer add-on." was taken from :- http://www.atarimuseum.com/videogames/consoles/7800/7800menu/ Just because someone at Atari had a horrible idea in 1983 doesn't mean it should be brought to fruition in 2011. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Just because someone at Atari had a horrible idea in 1983 doesn't mean it should be brought to fruition in 2011. In your opinion . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zonie Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 As someone who works in Hi tech equipment manufacturing and support, I totally understand the delays. working with outside suppliers always adds risk, and lack of control, but it is what is necessary to develop any product. Curt and the Team will never recoup their investments of time an money. This is a hobby. It's funny, but the electronics/pcb are usually the easy part!!! Plastics molding is a much more expensive and complex process than most people realize. Aluminum casting, (from another hobby) even worse!!! Thumbs up to the team for the efforts. Thumbs down to the douche-bags who have pissed in everybody's cheerios. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MattelAquarius Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 The 7800 keyboard would have been (will hopefully be) a great complement to the XM and 7800. Someone mentioned that the keyboard didn't materialize in the 80's, because it was a bad idea. Yes, it was a bad idea, but only due the marketing climate of the time. Honestly, it is precisely because it didn't materialize during the golden age, that it is so intriguing and fantasy-stroking now. It's the whole "What might have been?" question that drives almost all classic gaming/computer debates. It's called a "hobby" for a reason. Our subculture is, by definition, not suitable for mainstream consumption. Therefore, it is not bound by those rules. I am very eager to get my hands on the XM. I'll probably ogle mine a couple days before I even plug it in. I sincerely hope that Curt and gang will continue to perform further Academy Award winning productions in this ongoing West Side Story of the Atari Age. (My accidental trademark of being pointlessly poetic.) In our off-Broadway production, the Legacy Jets soundly defeat the Troll Sharks for control of the Atari Age streets. With songs such as: "Something's Coming" – Curt "The Rumble" (Dance) – Legacy Jets and Troll Sharks "I Feel Pretty" - Legacy Jets "Finale" - Audience sing-along Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Usotsuki Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 It's got SIO, right? It's got the keyboard port, right? So it's already further expandable, right? SIO can give us disk drives, SD storage, networking etc., and the keyboard port can give us another way to game. I can't *possibly* see that as a bad thing, if the software is developed for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inky Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 My wife needs to get a job so I can feed my 7800 addiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipj Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 I think of it like the "Pandora" system... It took a long time before it came out, but in the end it was whorth the wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+evg2000 Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 and some of us are still waiting, it will be three years in october that I paid for mine. I think of it like the "Pandora" system... It took a long time before it came out, but in the end it was whorth the wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HARMIK Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 (edited) I new this would happen if someone invented a cure for cancer that was free there would still be dicks complaining about it. I really just don't get some people thanks a lot to all those that have fuc**d things up for the rest of us. To Curt and others I thank you for all your hard work and effort I don't know what to say, I just court up with this thread and feel pretty shit now. Edited July 25, 2011 by HARMIK 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 In case that post you made Curt was refering to my post and not the banned dude I will say that my comment was directed to the sheep not the shepard. Take what you will from that but here is hoping you know what I mean. Also the whole "God" comment.... really?!?!?! Give it a break Well after reading this thread it seems there is ALOT of pissed off people, some very patient people and a half dozen or so blinded sheep who would accept spit off the street as nectar from a god even if punched in the back of the head while they licked it up. Crazy stuff but an intresting read none the less. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 Well after reading this thread it seems there is ALOT of pissed off people, some very patient people and a half dozen or so blinded sheep who would accept spit off the street as nectar from a god even if punched in the back of the head while they licked it up. Crazy stuff but an intresting read none the less.Also the whole "God" comment.... really?!?!?! Give it a breakIn case that post you made Curt was refering to my post and not the banned dude I will say that my comment was directed to the sheep not the shepard. Take what you will from that but here is hoping you know what I mean. Well, folks, if you're disappointed that we won't be getting anymore direct-to-hobbyist projects from Curt ... now you know who to thank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 Well, folks, if you're disappointed that we won't be getting anymore direct-to-hobbyist projects from Curt ... now you know who to thank. There are a few others higher up the "thanks" list in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cebus Capucinis Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 Remember when this thread was about the status of the XM, and not about members making remarks about each other? I sure do. tl;dr: HINT HINT 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 There are a few others higher up the "thanks" list in my opinion. Remember when this thread was about the status of the XM, and not about members making remarks about each other? I sure do. You're both right, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomickneedrop Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 Remember when this thread was about the status of the XM, and not about members making remarks about each other? I sure do. tl;dr: HINT HINT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipj Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 (edited) and some of us are still waiting, it will be three years in october that I paid for mine. I think of it like the "Pandora" system... It took a long time before it came out, but in the end it was whorth the wait. I guess that's just the nature of hobby released community... If the demand and resources isn't up to par like the commercial stuff, I guess that's just how it is sometimes. I remember when the "Krocodile Cartridge" for the the 2600 having some similar issues with it's release with there being a delay until it was finally mailed to my door step. Then came the software issues with the cartridge until it got fixed. It was almost the same way with the Skunkboards. They were able to get the boards out on time, but they had software issues in the beginning that eventually got ironed out over time thus it proves that these are some of the likely patterns in homebrew hobby releases. It's not going to be commercially savvy, but clearly Curt has a product or prototype of some-sort so that indicates to me that the system will eventually be released. Edited July 26, 2011 by philipj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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