cas to tape for xc12 (atari 65xe)

[vahe]

Hi.

 

I have a problem and would really appreciate an advice.

 

I have a few cas files which I want to load onto my 65xe. In order to do that, I'm converting cas's into wav's using cas2wav. I'm then using Nero to burn the output to an audio cd. I then record the audio cd to a tape using a basic philips boombox. I then put the tape into xc12 to load onto 65xe but I get an error after the first or second beep (neither does it sound quite as right).

 

I've tried using all default cas2wav settings, as well as setting the baud rate to 575 or using pure waves, nothing works so far.

 

Could you please advice what am I doing wrong and how can I record a cas onto a tape properly? What are the correct settings for cas2wav? Any links to a 100% working cas files so that I could try with these?

 

Many thanks!!!

[Kr0tki]

Your way of recording is quite OK, if a bit complicated. The failure might be:

 

- you're using an incompatible method of loading (Start+Option, CLOAD, etc., you know)

- the resulting WAV files are too loud (AFAIK CAS2WAV produces WAV files that might be too loud for the Atari when stored on tape) - try lowering signal level in a WAV editor.

- either one of your tape recorders is broken.

 

The CAS-es at Atarimania are OK.

[vahe]

Your way of recording is quite OK, if a bit complicated. The failure might be:

 

- you're using an incompatible method of loading (Start+Option, CLOAD, etc., you know)

- the resulting WAV files are too loud (AFAIK CAS2WAV produces WAV files that might be too loud for the Atari when stored on tape) - try lowering signal level in a WAV editor.

- either one of your tape recorders is broken.

 

The CAS-es at Atarimania are OK.

 

Thanks Kr0tki. Just to test, I've tried the Bruce Lee cas from here http://www.atarimania.com/game-atari-400-800-xl-xe-bruce-lee_s799.html

BUT it didn't work. Same not quite normal sounds - it goes into self test just after a beep or two.

Any ideas?

[analmux]

Well, just according to some of my experience: The cas2wav procedure might generate a very loud signal in the .wav file.

 

So, when copying it from CD to tape, possibly it might help to do a new conversion/recording and try to lower the signal a bit. Possibly the loud signal could give some distortion when doing a CD2TAPE conversion. At least, I would try this.

[Rybags]

Not only that, but many integrated CD/tape decks will boost the signal when recording.

 

My advice would be to grab Audacity and edit the WAV file. Then change the volume of the entire file such that the peaks are no more than about 40% amplitude.

 

Maybe try out a few short programs and see if you can find the ideal level.

[charliecron]

The Bruce Lee cas file is good, loaded it on real hardware over an sio2pc cable.

 

Have you verified your XC-12 is good? Can you save a load a BASIC program?

[+wood_jl]

An easy (that means low-tech and cheap) way to remedy the recording level is to get a dedicated cassette deck. I found a MINT Sony double-deck unit at Goodwill for $5 which I plan on using for exactly this. I've seen this deal more than once. A "recording level" knob beckons to be adjusted, on the front of the unit. Can possibly avoid the CD burning by just playing the WAV from the LINE OUT of your PC to the input on the cassette deck.

[vahe]

Still no success I'm afraid...

 

I've tried different file volume levels (from 5% to 125% of the original); while I almost can't hear any sounds on levels beyond 40%, strangely levels above 100% produce the same sound level (ie 100% sounds the same as 125%)! I've compared this with an actually working original cassette, and on the original cassette the volume is actually much higher and sharper than on my custom made. Could it be that my soundmachine actually lowers the sound level automatically?

 

I've tried both via CD and line in, same negative result. And yes, the tape drive is working fine - original games load without problems.

 

Any suggestions how can I make this work or maybe an alternative way of loading old games to my Atari? What's SIO2PC (I've opened the page on atarimax but can't figure out what is what and what can be used with 65XE and how).

 

Any help very much appreciated! Thank you.

[vahe]

PS. Just in case, here is the WAV file I am trying on: brucelee CAS from atariage converted to WAV

BRUCELEE.zip

[Rybags]

The waveform in that file is a sine-wave.

 

There are command switches that let you select a different waveform with CAS2WAV.

 

Enter CAS2WAV /?

to get the list of options for the utility. I'd suggest trying pure tone or block wave, might work better for you.

[charliecron]

That tape leader is about 27 seconds.. I don't know but I think thats to long. Should be about 15 seconds?

 

Try shortening the tape leader.

 

Charlie

[walter_J64bit]

I've tried using a boombox before I couldn't get any of my CAS2WAV files to work, you might be running into the same problem. I use a Cassette Deck from a old Stereo it works 100% of the time.

Edited January 12, 2011 by walter_J64bit

[+wood_jl]

The waveform in that file is a sine-wave.

 

There are command switches that let you select a different waveform with CAS2WAV.

 

Enter CAS2WAV /?

to get the list of options for the utility. I'd suggest trying pure tone or block wave, might work better for you.

 

I remove my hat in deference to your wisdom. Waveform observation and analysis? If only I were capable of so much. Remember the test Spock was taking in the beginning of Star Trek 3 (or was it 4? I can't remember). He's at a computer console making similar analysis and correction. You're the man.

[Rybags]

Hasn't worked yet AFAIK, otherwise I'd guess he'd have posted "success".

 

Just a case of loading into Audacity and it looked fairly apparent it's a Sine wave.

 

Further investigation revealed that sine wave is the default for CAS2WAV.

Kinda strange - the Atari by default puts out a square wave with decay on the duty cycle, although I'm not sure if that exact waveform is duplicated when doing SIO output in 2-tone mode.

Edited January 12, 2011 by Rybags

[analmux]

AFAIK the higher pitched tones generated by a real pokey are also kind of triangle/sine wave alike. Looking at the .wav file it's hard to tell whether it's really a pure sine wave. And, IIRC it's possible to control the audio spectrum filtering with the cas2wav tool, at least if the advanced menu options are selected.

 

So, I don't expect any problems by using this. Possibly the problem is (indeed) too low level & too long initial 'silence' of 27 seconds.

 

But, I'm curious what's the real cause of this problem.

[Rybags]

Too long leader would cause a timeout error, but he's getting "first or second beeps".

 

Another thing to try might be to attempt to record the cassette back to the PC to rule out the deck being used as the problem.

[analmux]

Oh yes, of course.

 

Anyway, @ vahe, did you already try some various other tapes to record your programs on? Another possible cause might be too much speed variations / wobbling in the drive wheel itself. A cause could be a very long tape (f.e. 100 minutes). I don't know what length of tape you're using?

 

And, another "anyway": Did you turn on/off Dolby Noise Reduction?

 

 

But, some months ago I also had a tape problem, and there seems to be some similarity with this problem. I tried to copy an A8 data-track from tape to tape. I had an old tapedeck with 2 drives, so I did a copy from drive 1 to drive 2. But, even at highest recording level, the result was still sh*tty low level. And, there was also too much background noise, and the A8 signal itself contained too much low tones, almost no high tones. So let's say, the resulting signal was very 'dark' & noisy & not loud enough. So, I gave up, and tried another method. But, this problem was clearly caused by the tape drive itself.

 

You posted the .wav file which was directly output by cas2wav. But, I'm curious whether the signal on your real tape sounds the same or much 'darker'. This might clear up some things.

Edited January 12, 2011 by analmux

[charliecron]

I did end up recording your .wav to a tape and it seems OK. I did not record the whole thing (tape to short, its a big program), but I did record a few minutes and I made it through at least 4 stages, enough to get the first title screen, and then second "Now loading Bruce Lee" screen. About 3-4 minutes.. So I'm pretty sure I would have made it through the whole load. The long tape leader does not seem to be a problem.

[Marius]

A lot is already said in this thread, so forgive me when I duplicate things.

 

Important is:

 

1. Good tapes. Normal FERRO tapes. Not the Chrome Type II. Do not use tapes longer than 60 minutes (30 minutes/side).

 

2. Make sure your XC12 is in good condition. Do this: Take a 90 minutes tape (yes, I know do not use these for data, but for this test it is great). Do a Fast forward from the beginning to the end. When the XC12 can not manage to fast forward this tape till the end your drive belt is not in a good condition.

 

3. Do the same as point 2 for fast rewind.

 

4. Do not record the WAV file too loud, and not too quiet. I'd say 70-75% of max. volume is right.

 

5. Try to record on only the RIGHT channel. (If i'm sure it is the Right channel... if not, use only LEFT channel). For the data only one of the two stereo channels is used. It has a few more benefits to do this. You only get the clear 'data conversed' sound from the speaker, and not the original waves. I like the atari-load-sound, but I HATE the wav bleeps. From the Atari sound you can hear if loading goes well. When all that noisy wav sound is coming with it, it is harder to hear if everything goes right.

 

6. If steps 1,2,3 and 4 are ok (5 is not important for succeeding) and you are still having trouble, you might need to adjust the HEAD height... but BE GENTLE and don't screw it!! (there is a spring beneath the screw, and it is a bit hard to get that back in place when you go too far)

 

7. Not all CAS files do work when put back to WAV. Even when it works on emulator, you can still have problems on the real thing.

 

 

Good luck!

Marius

 

p.s. you also could test your XC12 by turning the atari on, till READY appears. Write a small program like

 

10 GRAPHICS 0
20 PRINT "THIS IS MY XC12 TEST PROGRAM"
30 END

CSAVE

 

and then try to get this back in memory by CLOAD-ing it!

[xdslx]

a late answer but , I think the problem is because of the different head adjustments of the boombox and the xc12 . the symptoms direct me to there. If you can adjust the bookbox's tape player head adjustment same as the xc12's and use a8cas software then it should work.

Edited June 22, 2017 by xdslx