Opinion of the 7800 vs 8bit

[ATARI7800fan]

HI, I was wondering what are peoples opinion of the Atari 7800 vs there 8-bit computers. I currently have a Atari 7800 with 12 games plus about 40 2600 games.I also own two European controllers and a light gun plus two 2600 controllers and two paddle controllers plus the American 7800 controllers. I do not own a separate 2600. I have looking up systems and have always wondered if I should have gotten a 8-bit computer instead of the 7800, while the 7800 does have a new expansion module and some good homebrew games. I wonder if I should have gotten a computer before. The thing is I have never owned a classic computer, I grew up with consoles and just recently got into computer gaming, so I figured the 7800 would have been a better choice as it was a console and I currently do not own any 8-bit consoles besides it. Should I get a 8-bit computer and sell my 7800, have ran out of room currently have 9 systems including a TI-99/4A, at a possible loss or should I keep the 7800 and just wait a few years until I can get the space and money for the computer. Also which one would you guys recommend the XL series or the XE series. Thanks for your time.

Edited January 18, 2011 by ATARI7800fan

[Hatta]

You won't go far wrong with either. Since you already have a 7800, I'd recommend you hang on to it, enjoy it, and save the foray into classic computing for the future when you won't have to sacrifice something to add a computer. There should be interesting times ahead with the expansion module, so I wouldn't recommend jumping ship.

[BydoEmpire]

First, I'd probably vote to keep the 7800 and just get an 800xl or xegs whenever you get a chance. The 7800 has some great games. I've had once since they were new and I've definitely enjoyed it over the years.

 

That said, I definitely prefer the A8 now (I have an XEGS right now). There are tons of games to be had relatively cheap, and a lot more good games (imho) than the 7800. Excellent arcade ports, excellent originals. If I had to pick one now I'd pick the A8.

Edited January 19, 2011 by BydoEmpire

[ATARI7800fan]

What is your opinion of the Atari 800XL package from Atari-sales for 74.95 with a s-video cable. It also comes with two games, pac-man and one you can choose from a set list.

Edited January 19, 2011 by ATARI7800fan

[svenski]

What is your opinion of the Atari 800XL package from Atari-sales for 74.95 with a s-video cable.

 

I'd say keep the 7800 and go with the 8-bit as well. They both are good platforms with their own advantages.

 

74.95 isn't cheap but it isn't super expensive either when you consider the video cables and the fact you have a 30 day warranty.

[Charlie_]

I had a 7800 since its launch date. I only recently got an A8 last year. I found that most of the 7800 games were direct ports from the A8 computers. Not all, but a good many are.

[BydoEmpire]

7800 plusses: great 2-player co-op versions of Asteroids and Centipede. 2600 compatibility.

A8 plusses: lots more unique titles like Necromancer and Final Legacy. Not only tons of carts, but also disk games if you want.

 

$74.95 seems steep to me, but the s-video cable would be nice if that's your setup. I got an 800xl with disk drive, joystick, and half a dozen cart games off eBay for about $25 (of course, plus shipping and the system arrived all smashed up, so maybe you get what you pa for... heh).

[atariksi]

7800 plusses: great 2-player co-op versions of Asteroids and Centipede. 2600 compatibility.

A8 plusses: lots more unique titles like Necromancer and Final Legacy. Not only tons of carts, but also disk games if you want.

Only game for which I use Atari 7800 today is Ms. Pac-man.

 

$74.95 seems steep to me, but the s-video cable would be nice if that's your setup. I got an 800xl with disk drive, joystick, and half a dozen cart games off eBay for about $25 (of course, plus shipping and the system arrived all smashed up, so maybe you get what you pa for... heh).

 

I bought a few used 800XLs and Atari 400s from ebay and it's a pretty high rate that they turn up perfectly working and since you buy more than one, you increase that probability. In worst case, you have parts to swap back and forth to build one that works. I have one Atari 400 w/no SIO pins and another with bad keyboard and a third with RF signal noise so I should be able to get one working one out of these 3. Someone must have been really mad to take out all the SIO pins.

[+darryl1970]

HI, I was wondering what are peoples opinion of the Atari 7800 vs there 8-bit computers. I currently have a Atari 7800 with 12 games plus about 40 2600 games.I also own two European controllers and a light gun plus two 2600 controllers and two paddle controllers plus the American 7800 controllers. I do not own a separate 2600. I have looking up systems and have always wondered if I should have gotten a 8-bit computer instead of the 7800, while the 7800 does have a new expansion module and some good homebrew games. I wonder if I should have gotten a computer before. The thing is I have never owned a classic computer, I grew up with consoles and just recently got into computer gaming, so I figured the 7800 would have been a better choice as it was a console and I currently do not own any 8-bit consoles besides it. Should I get a 8-bit computer and sell my 7800, have ran out of room currently have 9 systems including a TI-99/4A, at a possible loss or should I keep the 7800 and just wait a few years until I can get the space and money for the computer. Also which one would you guys recommend the XL series or the XE series. Thanks for your time.

 

I owned an Atari 800XL and a 5200 in my youth. The 7800 is a great collectors item. It has a more powerful Sprite system than the 8-bits, so the on-screen characters will have more colors. However, the gameplay and sound are usually lame. The 8-bit computer games (and 5200) seemed to have smoother gameplay. I think Atari wasted an awesome "Maria" chip on a crippled system. By the time the 7800 was officially released, it appears that Atari lost all of the detail-oriented programmers. The 7800 game characters seem to just glide around with little "physics" and off animation (almost slow-mo), where the 8-bit computer/5200 games seem to be more intense. The 8-bit characters can be lame sometimes (single color or character graphics), but the 7800 characters seem washed out and sluggish. The 8-bit/5200 sound is about 10-times better too. I am sure there are some that would prefer colorful sprites over smooth gameplay. Likewise, there are separate threads where people feel that sound is not that important for older games. With that said, I feel I am stating facts, but biased by what I like. The 8-bits do seem to have an endless catalog of games though, compared to the 7800.

 

Based on what you've shared, however, I feel you made a good decision. In order to enjoy the 8-bit, you would need a disk drive to play the multitude of disk-based games. (Even more space). Cartridges (8-bit) only seem to go so far, and are often limited in RAM. Using the drive is simple once you know HOW to use it, but there are things to learn. Many games self-boot, and some have menus (of multiple games). Some need loaded from DOS. Some need basic disabled.

 

As for XL or XE, I have no experience with the REAL hardware. However, from the emulation scene, I have discovered some games that will only play on the 130XE (or greater), due to the expanded memory (Bomb Jack comes to mind). However, they seem to be few and far between. Maybe somebody else can answer quality/durability. I know my 800XL is like a tank, and still works whenever I dig it out of the basement tote!

 

I hope this helps.

[BydoEmpire]

. Also which one would you guys recommend the XL series or the XE series

The XL series has the cartridge slot on top, but the XE series (other than the XEGS) has the cart slot in back. That's kind of a pain, imho, so I'd go XL given the choice if you plan on play cart games (and there are a lot of great ones). Edited January 20, 2011 by BydoEmpire

[SpaceDice2010]

I would grab an 800xl and get the AtariMax programmer. What a great combo.

[ATARI7800fan]

I would grab an 800xl and get the AtariMax programmer. What a great combo.

Thanks. I was going to ask what XL computer do you guys think I should go with. I like the top loading design of the 800XL but also like the 1200XL for some reason. which of the two would you pick.

[Havok69]

1200XL for the keyboard - best 8bit keyboard ever! However, you will pay more. 800XL is probably the best bet for all around compatibility and price.

 

I would also pick up an SIO2PC, or a SIO2SD if you're not near a modern PC.

 

 

[mimo]

1200xl is my favorite but in stock configuration you will have a few compatibility problems and will probably want a video mod

As a starting point an 800xl will be a perfect choice

[Tin_Lunchbox]

You're asking this question from a gaming perspective, it seems to me. If you were asking from a broader perspective I'd say the 8bits are completely advantaged over the 7800 because they have apps and languages and computer capabilities in addition to games.

 

Even in a broad gaming perspective. the 8bits are advantaged, because in addition to cartridge games, you have the ability for keyboard-using and disk-based games, like text adventures and games too complex and large to fit in a cartridge's limited memory capacity.

 

But from a narrow perspective, cartridge-based games only, it's at least a contest. In diversity, I think you'll still find way more game cartridges for the bits than for the 7800. I'd suspect three times more at least. In quality, there's an element of taste involved, but that doesn't mean that taste is all that's involved, because things like smoothness and challenge and levels and faithfulness-to-the-arcade can be quantified pretty well, regardless of taste. And then there's of course the quantifiable graphics, sound, and speed capabilities. One could compare those things and individual games all day, but in my short opinion: The 7800 has somewhat-better graphics but the 8bits do everything else better, including gameplay and sound.

 

Now if you throw the 7800's ability to play 2600 games in your perspective, the scale is going to tip the other way, in favor of the 7800. This is because, despite the 2600's technological limitations, a tremendous amount of innovative great cartridges were released for it, utterly dwarfing the number of cartridges for the 7800 itself and the 8bits.

[BrianC]

 

I owned an Atari 800XL and a 5200 in my youth. The 7800 is a great collectors item. It has a more powerful Sprite system than the 8-bits, so the on-screen characters will have more colors. However, the gameplay and sound are usually lame. The 8-bit computer games (and 5200) seemed to have smoother gameplay. I think Atari wasted an awesome "Maria" chip on a crippled system. By the time the 7800 was officially released, it appears that Atari lost all of the detail-oriented programmers. The 7800 game characters seem to just glide around with little "physics" and off animation (almost slow-mo), where the 8-bit computer/5200 games seem to be more intense. The 8-bit characters can be lame sometimes (single color or character graphics), but the 7800 characters seem washed out and sluggish. The 8-bit/5200 sound is about 10-times better too. I am sure there are some that would prefer colorful sprites over smooth gameplay. Likewise, there are separate threads where people feel that sound is not that important for older games. With that said, I feel I am stating facts, but biased by what I like.

 

Exactly what games are you comparing? Are you playing via emulation (7800 only has a couple emulators available and one of them I tried runs games slow on my comp)? This is completely off. Asteroids and Centipede are both faster and smoother on the 7800. I thought Ms. Pac-Man was slow on the 800, but it's just a choppy dot animation and seems to run about the same speed (the Pac-Man Collection version runs smoother, though). Other games like Food Fight, Joust, and Robotron also play very smooth on the 7800 with Robotron having more sprites on screen than the 800 version. I heard the XL/XE Food Fight runs slow compared to the 7800 one, as well. Jr. Pac-Man seems to run smoother on 7800 than the 800 version. Other 7800 games like Xevious, Ballblazer, and Commando are also smooth. That said, 800 XL does have plenty of nice games not on 7800 and is better overall.

Edited January 21, 2011 by BrianC

[atariksi]

 

I owned an Atari 800XL and a 5200 in my youth. The 7800 is a great collectors item. It has a more powerful Sprite system than the 8-bits, so the on-screen characters will have more colors. However, the gameplay and sound are usually lame. The 8-bit computer games (and 5200) seemed to have smoother gameplay. I think Atari wasted an awesome "Maria" chip on a crippled system. By the time the 7800 was officially released, it appears that Atari lost all of the detail-oriented programmers. The 7800 game characters seem to just glide around with little "physics" and off animation (almost slow-mo), where the 8-bit computer/5200 games seem to be more intense. The 8-bit characters can be lame sometimes (single color or character graphics), but the 7800 characters seem washed out and sluggish. The 8-bit/5200 sound is about 10-times better too. I am sure there are some that would prefer colorful sprites over smooth gameplay. Likewise, there are separate threads where people feel that sound is not that important for older games. With that said, I feel I am stating facts, but biased by what I like.

 

Exactly what games are you comparing?

I think he's stating in general and technically that the Atari 7800 sucks in all respects except where you need tons of sprites and computation time isn't that big of an issue.

 

Are you playing via emulation (7800 only has a couple emulators available and one of them I tried runs games slow on my comp)? This is completely off. Asteroids and Centipede are both faster and smoother on the 7800. I thought Ms. Pac-Man was slow on the 800, but it's just a choppy dot animation and seems to run about the same speed (the Pac-Man Collection version runs smoother, though).

I thought Ms. pac-man was good on Atari 7800 but it was another system not 7800. I just played the 7800 Ms. Pacman and it's not that good. Not as good as Atari 400/800 version. In 7800 version, the Ms. Pac-man moves too fast and monsters can't catch up as in Atari 400 version. It looks like they tried to make up for it by making the power pill last for like 2 seconds which makes things even worse as it's almost useless in later levels. Graphics don't look so crisp on 7800 version although monsters don't flicker when on same horizontal region. But Atari 400 version could be better as the graphics seem to be misaligned so turning screws up (unlike pac-man). Joystick control screwing up and collision being off a bit are present in both versions. Monster logic seems superior on Atari 400.

 

Other games like Food Fight, Joust, and Robotron also play very smooth on the 7800 with Robotron having more sprites on screen than the 800 version. I heard the XL/XE Food Fight runs slow compared to the 7800 one, as well. Jr. Pac-Man seems to run smoother on 7800 than the 800 version. Other 7800 games like Xevious, Ballblazer, and Commando are also smooth. That said, 800 XL does have plenty of nice games not on 7800 and is better overall.

 

I haven't played Food Fight on both systems, but Joust and Robotron are a win for Atari 400/800. Robotron is too slow and easier on 7800. Joust looks terrible (when unpaused) on the 7800 and sloppy in collision detection. I guess that's what he was trying to get to with better playability.

[GroovyBee]

I think he's stating in general and technically that the Atari 7800 sucks in all respects except where you need tons of sprites and computation time isn't that big of an issue.

 

So you have this on A8 (image from Atarimania) :-

 

 

And this on the 7800 :-

 

 

Hmmm....

[ATARI7800fan]

I think he's stating in general and technically that the Atari 7800 sucks in all respects except where you need tons of sprites and computation time isn't that big of an issue.

 

So you have this on A8 (image from Atarimania) :-

 

 

And this on the 7800 :-

 

 

Hmmm....

 

Looks good so far. I would love to hear the ingame music/music for Gauntlet. Seeing as it uses the Pokey chip right. Which as everyone now's is awesome for chip tune music.

Edited January 21, 2011 by ATARI7800fan

[BrianC]

 

I owned an Atari 800XL and a 5200 in my youth. The 7800 is a great collectors item. It has a more powerful Sprite system than the 8-bits, so the on-screen characters will have more colors. However, the gameplay and sound are usually lame. The 8-bit computer games (and 5200) seemed to have smoother gameplay. I think Atari wasted an awesome "Maria" chip on a crippled system. By the time the 7800 was officially released, it appears that Atari lost all of the detail-oriented programmers. The 7800 game characters seem to just glide around with little "physics" and off animation (almost slow-mo), where the 8-bit computer/5200 games seem to be more intense. The 8-bit characters can be lame sometimes (single color or character graphics), but the 7800 characters seem washed out and sluggish. The 8-bit/5200 sound is about 10-times better too. I am sure there are some that would prefer colorful sprites over smooth gameplay. Likewise, there are separate threads where people feel that sound is not that important for older games. With that said, I feel I am stating facts, but biased by what I like.

 

Exactly what games are you comparing?

I think he's stating in general and technically that the Atari 7800 sucks in all respects except where you need tons of sprites and computation time isn't that big of an issue.

 

Are you playing via emulation (7800 only has a couple emulators available and one of them I tried runs games slow on my comp)? This is completely off. Asteroids and Centipede are both faster and smoother on the 7800. I thought Ms. Pac-Man was slow on the 800, but it's just a choppy dot animation and seems to run about the same speed (the Pac-Man Collection version runs smoother, though).

I thought Ms. pac-man was good on Atari 7800 but it was another system not 7800. I just played the 7800 Ms. Pacman and it's not that good. Not as good as Atari 400/800 version. In 7800 version, the Ms. Pac-man moves too fast and monsters can't catch up as in Atari 400 version. It looks like they tried to make up for it by making the power pill last for like 2 seconds which makes things even worse as it's almost useless in later levels. Graphics don't look so crisp on 7800 version although monsters don't flicker when on same horizontal region. But Atari 400 version could be better as the graphics seem to be misaligned so turning screws up (unlike pac-man). Joystick control screwing up and collision being off a bit are present in both versions. Monster logic seems superior on Atari 400.

 

Other games like Food Fight, Joust, and Robotron also play very smooth on the 7800 with Robotron having more sprites on screen than the 800 version. I heard the XL/XE Food Fight runs slow compared to the 7800 one, as well. Jr. Pac-Man seems to run smoother on 7800 than the 800 version. Other 7800 games like Xevious, Ballblazer, and Commando are also smooth. That said, 800 XL does have plenty of nice games not on 7800 and is better overall.

 

I haven't played Food Fight on both systems, but Joust and Robotron are a win for Atari 400/800. Robotron is too slow and easier on 7800. Joust looks terrible (when unpaused) on the 7800 and sloppy in collision detection. I guess that's what he was trying to get to with better playability.

 

No offense, but I know full well what he was saying. I just disagree with it. Why do I get every single thing explained to me as if I didn't understand it when I disagree on something here? Robotron isn't slow on the advanced or expert settings. As I said, it also has more on screen than 800/5200. The flaps in Joust 7800 take some getting used to since they work differently from the arcade, but the game still runs fast and smooth (and I disagree on the graphics, or do I need to be corrected again?).

 

As for Ms. Pac-Man, I'm aware of the lack of Ms. Pac-Man slowing down when she eats dots in the 7800 one, but I disagree about it being "not that good". BTW, I didn't say which version I liked better (same with Joust), but I feel Ms. Pac-Man is a solid port with ghost AI close to the arcade. I haven't had a problem with turning in either version and I think that collision "issue" is just a carry over from the arcade. Some of the issues with the 7800 version were fixed with the 7800 Pac-Man Collection hack.

Edited January 21, 2011 by BrianC

[+wood_jl]

1200XL for the keyboard - best 8bit keyboard ever! However, you will pay more. 800XL is probably the best bet for all around compatibility and price.

 

The 1200XL has the best 8-bit keyboard WHEN IT IS WORKING which by 2011, seems a lot of them need work. Probably be a headache for a newbie 8-bit computer user. Also, would probably massively overpay for that possibly-malfunctioning system, based on 1200XL prices as of late....and get frustrated. I'd say 800XL all way - dirt cheap ($15 on Ebay) and probably works. I like the 1200XLs but more as a second system, or for a more experienced A8 user.

 

 

I would also pick up an SIO2PC, or a SIO2SD if you're not near a modern PC.

 

Seconded! SIO2PC is cheap and readily available, and you'll love it!

[+wood_jl]

You're asking this question from a gaming perspective, it seems to me. If you were asking from a broader perspective I'd say the 8bits are completely advantaged over the 7800 because they have apps and languages and computer capabilities in addition to games.

 

Even in a broad gaming perspective. the 8bits are advantaged, because in addition to cartridge games, you have the ability for keyboard-using and disk-based games, like text adventures and games too complex and large to fit in a cartridge's limited memory capacity.

 

These are the reasons I never got a 7800, along with the sucky controller and sucky sound. The 7800 Expansion Module seeks to ameliorate some of the 7800 disadvantages over the 8-bit, but it's of course easier and obviously cheaper to get a $15 800XL. The 8-bit computer Donkey Kong and Star Raiders make them worth more than a 7800 to me, even without all the many other reasons.

 

Now if you throw the 7800's ability to play 2600 games in your perspective, the scale is going to tip the other way, in favor of the 7800. This is because, despite the 2600's technological limitations, a tremendous amount of innovative great cartridges were released for it, utterly dwarfing the number of cartridges for the 7800 itself and the 8bits.

 

My solution is to put a $15 2600 next to my 800XL and then I can do both.

[BrianC]

BTW, darryl1970 suggested he played games via emulation, and the comments about the games being slow and choppy suggested that he played the 7800 games on a slow emulator. One thing the 7800 excels at is game speed. While there are definite duds in the 7800 library, most of GCC's arcade ports were done well (Dig Dug is a good example of a game that is more detailed on 7800 and plays just as fast, if not faster, than other versions). 7800 also runs Ballblazer fast and smooth. That said I like the 800 XL better since it has more complex games like Star Raiders, allows for larger games, and has a large number of games that never made it to 7800.

Edited January 22, 2011 by BrianC

[Divya16]

 

No offense, but I know full well what he was saying. I just disagree with it. Why do I get every single thing explained to me as if I didn't understand it when I disagree on something here?

Maybe because you are wrong.

 

As for Ms. Pac-Man, I'm aware of the lack of Ms. Pac-Man slowing down when she eats dots in the 7800 one, but I disagree about it being "not that good". BTW, I didn't say which version I liked better (same with Joust), but I feel Ms. Pac-Man is a solid port with ghost AI close to the arcade. I haven't had a problem with turning in either version and I think that collision "issue" is just a carry over from the arcade. Some of the issues with the 7800 version were fixed with the 7800 Pac-Man Collection hack.

 

I just played Ms. Pac-man on 7800 and it not only doesn't slow down by eating dots but speeds up. You actually gain speed on the monsters. And in some levels, the monsters are suppose to catch up to you even when you don't eat dots. The AI is inferior on 7800 and both versions have inferior controls to pac-man on Atari 800. Robotron is also better on 8-bit and harder as 7800 seems to have more slowdowns when there's a lot of content on the screen. I guess you haven't played both versions as much as I have to notice the defects on the 7800. Joust is also better on Atari 800.

[ApolloBoy]

 

No offense, but I know full well what he was saying. I just disagree with it. Why do I get every single thing explained to me as if I didn't understand it when I disagree on something here?

Maybe because you are wrong.