Value added to hacks

[atari_aaron]

We have a guy at work who has quit three times in the last three years. He can be irritating at times, and always blames us at first. However, in the end, he always changes his mind, admits that the problem was mostly his and we admit that the problem was partly our fault, and then he starts working for us again.

 

So maybe that's the way Hozer Video will go. As a new guy to the Atari hobby, I guess I'm not as upset about the demise of Hozer Video as I should be, and as some of the old timers are. Though as a community, it's actually nice to see that everyone is willing to forgive Randy if he just comes back to the table with a different attitude.

 

I think morally (and yes even legally), hackers have a right to defend their work in the context of "classic gaming". Hacking classic games is a whole different beast than modern video games. Essentially most hacks make the game better than it was before. Better even than the original programmers could have possibly made it. There's quite a bit of "value added" to a classic game hack. In the case of NTSC/PAL conversions, those hacks make a game playable on a completely different continents.

 

However, trademark infringement... now that's a different story. If anythng, hacks of classic games run a greater risk of trademark infringement.

[Sir Plus]

Even if you have no bones about Hozer, them shutting down affects everyone in the classic gaming community that wants to keep the system alive. The less chance a homebrewer has to get his hack or brew into cart form would have an impact on whether he should even continue creating something that he'll have one less choice on who would market or produce the cart for him. Ultimately, it affects everyone. Once a system is really "dead" there is not much chance of reviving it again.

Also, please don't forget that there is a distinction between a homebrew and a hack.

[atari_aaron]

Yes, I realize there's a distinction between a homebrew and a hack. Obviously, the programmer of a completely new video game has the rights to everything he/she makes, as with any software. My point is that I feel hacks of classic games can stand on their own as new software products.

 

The whole Hozer Video affair was interesting in that quite a bit of Atari collector cart-making history was discussed. Just from following that thread, and as Rhindle The Red stated, "a page in the history of Atari collecting has firmly turned". It does appear that the atmosphere of atari collecting has changed recently, becoming a bit more sophisticated than it once was. Maybe (and I'm just speculating) that's why Randy (I obviously don't know him personally... but refering to him as the Hozer Video Guy sounds weird to me too) had such a problem with AA.

 

I'm working on my homebrew, and I never gave it a second thought as to using AA for producing my game. Mostly because AA is a much better looking website than Hozer Video. I could see how Randy might feel intimidated by it. Anyway, the guy is obviously proud of his status has a cart producer - as he should be.

 

Aaron

[+Cafeman]

Ack! When did Hozer go out of business?!? I was just getting ready to order some games from Randy for the first time, too!

 

Can somebody post a link or two about the situation?! I can't find anything on this subject. Were there legal issues?

[Snider-man]

Wow, Java-meister. You really haven't been keeping up on current events, have you? Well, the best - most detailed - info on the entire thing is found here on AA in this thread. (Keep in mind that the thread - obviously - has a distinct "good guy/bad guy" fell to it.) It starts with Thomas' initial post about problems, and escalates from there to encompass AA, Joe Grand, Activision, Rob Fulop, etc. It's a very messy event in the history of Atari collectors and homebrewing.

 

Also, there is another thread over on rec.games.video.classic where Randy responds to what's happening. I make no judgments one way or the other. I'm just sorry to see this all happen. Wow. Damn. Crap.

[Sir Plus]

No, it's not as black as that. Go into the thread that Thomas started.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Ack! When did Hozer go out of business?!? I was just getting ready to order some games from Randy for the first time, too!

 

Can somebody post a link or two about the situation?! I can't find anything on this subject. Were there legal issues?

No that was just me.

 

The discussion is right here:

http://www.atariage.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17502

[Thomas Jentzsch]

I make no judgments one way or the other.

Of course nobody has to do this in public.

 

I just think ignoring what has happened won't help too. And now that Randy has closed down, hardly anybody can.

 

I'm just sorry to see this all happen. Wow. Damn. Crap.

Agreed.

 

At least nobody has blamed me so far for going public. That makes me very optimistic that the community is still alive.

[atari_aaron]

It's difficult reading through that many posts, though I think I read though most of them on Thomas' thread. I think I'll just step out of the conversation at this point. The last thing I'll say is that I think Thomas was right for asking Randy to remove his hacks, but then everybody seems to agree on that point.

[Snider-man]

Snider-man wrote:

I make no judgments one way or the other.

Of course nobody has to do this in public.

 

Of course. Besides Thomas, I think you know better than most here where I stand.

 

I just think ignoring what has happened won't help too.

 

Who's ignoring? I'm more stunned than anything. I thought (at the beginning) this was nothing more than the start of good-old-fashioned competition between a couple of cart-makers. Then it got ugly. And more ugly. And then it escalates to this. I'm just....flabbergasted, I guess. And very, very sad.

 

I understand why you posted what you did, Thomas. You had to. I just didn't expect the direction that events took after that initial post. Wow.

 

But, as I said, I make no judgments. I'm too busy just shaking my head in wonder and disbelief that things disintegrated to this point.

[+Cafeman]

Wow, Java-meister. You really haven't been keeping up on current events, have you?

 

No I have not (I really don't have time to check out once-travelled net sites anymore), but I just read that long long thread! I saw the thread over the past day or two but I don't go to the 2600 forum much & didn't read it!

 

I must say that Randy's Hozer Video was a motivating factor for me to get into homebrewing in the first place. All the attacks against Joe and "the Als" (I LOL everytime I read that, I love it) are in direct conflict from what I've seen since my joining the AA ranks.

 

I will retreat to my cave again...

[Bill Lange]

Wow. I missed that whole thread too. Of course I was in Peru when it started. What a mess.

 

WRL

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Of course. Besides Thomas, I think you know better than most here where I stand.

At least I think so.

 

Who's ignoring? I'm more stunned than anything.

I wasn't meaning you. I was replying to myself that nobody has to go public. I'm sure everybody interested has made his own opinion now.

 

But if somebody goes public taking sides, he shouldn't try to ignore what has happened lately. That's what I meant.

 

I understand why you posted what you did, Thomas. You had to.

Thanks! That people wouldn't understand why I had to go this way was me biggest concern. But fortunately they did.

[ventrra]

I must say that Randy's Hozer Video was a motivating factor for me to get into homebrewing in the first place.

 

Also a part of my motivation for getting into hacking games for the 2600. Of course, the amusing and/or interesting results helped greatly

 

Thanks! That people wouldn't understand why I had to go this way was me biggest concern. But fortunately they did.

 

I doubt that there was much of a threat that people wouldn't understand. Many of us have been in somewhat similar situations in the past. It seems to me that you handled your part in all of this with as much dignity as could be expected. No one could (or should) fault you for that in my opinion.

(Not that many people are likely to put as much creedance into my opinion since I'm merely a hacker and you're a real programmer....however....)

[Cybergoth]

I'm the daily double post...

[Cybergoth]

Hi Tim!

 

But, as I said, I make no judgments. I'm too busy just shaking my head in wonder and disbelief that things disintegrated to this point.

 

I was already wondering if I was the only one who feels that way. While clearly supporting all of Thomas actions so far, I just want to understand Randys actions. I decided very early on to say nothing to the whole matter, except if I saw a chance to help ending it in ways most people could live with or if something dead-wrong was said, where I saw a real need of setting things straight. Unfortunately Randy once more totally overreacted and it seems very hard to build a bridge for him to come back without losing his face now. I'm sure if he'd gave in earlier, it would've been for the better for him and the scene as a "whole".

 

Greetings,

Manuel