What is the Atari 400?

[atariksi]

iirc BASIC is needed for all tape operations, so a rudimentary tape loading routine built into the OS w/out BASIC would have been nice even without the other features, even without the ability to save to tape -so you could at least load tape based games and such without BASIC

 

It does. You need to hold START when powering up to load a m/l file from tape.

 

Yep, and you can boot DISK as well and it would have been a small routine to put in a print screen given the generic SIO/CIO OS routines.

[ClausB]

The Atari 400 is cool.

 

Got mine 30 years ago last month.

[toptenmaterial]

The Atari 400 is cool.

 

Got mine 30 years ago last month.

Still in use?

[JPjuice23]

All of a sudden, I want an Atari computer. Had no idea these existed, and now I'm all for one.

 

Should I get the 400, or 800? Or one of the other ones? I should probably research it even more, but I think the 400 is cooler.

 

I'm not a computer expert, so I have no idea how to upgrade Ram or anything like that...

[Nukey Shay]

Of the 400 and 800 (stock versions), the 800 is preferred. As time progressed, a higher percentage of games and apps expected more than 16k of ram to be present. Either machine was built more sturdy than any of the newer XL/XE machines.

[+LS650]

The Notepad was not a word processor. It was a blue screen that let you type characters in an 80x24 grid. Kind of useless, really.

Whoops - yes, 40 chars wide (or 38). I guess I didn't have enough caffeine in my system when I wrote that!

[Charlie_]

I'd recommend an 800XL, 65xe, 130xe, or XEGS if your going to get an Atari 8-bit computer.

You will be able to play the most games on these.

[oracle_jedi]

Of the 400 and 800 (stock versions), the 800 is preferred. As time progressed, a higher percentage of games and apps expected more than 16k of ram to be present. Either machine was built more sturdy than any of the newer XL/XE machines.

 

The 800 also includes a composite video out as standard, the 400 only has RF out and looks pretty horrible on most TV sets.

 

Upgrading the 400 to composite/svideo out is a pain in the ***

[mimo]

As much as I love the beige tanks, I would have to recommend an xl or xe as a first or only 8 bit. But you could always buy one (or more ) of each

[atariksi]

Of the 400 and 800 (stock versions), the 800 is preferred. As time progressed, a higher percentage of games and apps expected more than 16k of ram to be present. Either machine was built more sturdy than any of the newer XL/XE machines.

 

The 800 also includes a composite video out as standard, the 400 only has RF out and looks pretty horrible on most TV sets.

 

Upgrading the 400 to composite/svideo out is a pain in the ***

 

You can get an external RF demodulator. There are some that will clean up any ghosting or signal noise as well like the Videotek DM-154. I got one of those and they also have an internal speaker so you can hear the audio form the demodulator and the TV.

[toptenmaterial]

when stjames88 sent my my 2600 jr, he included a coaxle that just snaps on to the, well, whatever it is that goes into the switchbox. so basicly the switchbox is eliminated. it works pretty good!

[kool kitty89]

iirc BASIC is needed for all tape operations, so a rudimentary tape loading routine built into the OS w/out BASIC would have been nice even without the other features, even without the ability to save to tape -so you could at least load tape based games and such without BASIC

 

It does. You need to hold START when powering up to load a m/l file from tape.

Ah, nice, Appolloboy failed to mention that to me, not that I'm planning on using the tape drive. (just for information's sake)

 

Aside from any programs with built-in tape save routines, BASIC would be needed for that functionality, right?

 

 

 

 

Of the 400 and 800 (stock versions), the 800 is preferred. As time progressed, a higher percentage of games and apps expected more than 16k of ram to be present. Either machine was built more sturdy than any of the newer XL/XE machines.

I think the 400 would be preferred if you're on a tighter budget and the keyboard isn't a deal breaker. (especially if you're reasonably competent at soldering for the 48k RAM kit -the price of the kit and a reasonable deal on a 400 would tend to be a lot more favorable than buying a 48k 800)

The compact size is a plus too. (I like the look of the 400 in general over the 800 personally, nice clean angular wedge design -and functionality aside, the keyboard looks neat too)

 

Of the 400 and 800 (stock versions), the 800 is preferred. As time progressed, a higher percentage of games and apps expected more than 16k of ram to be present. Either machine was built more sturdy than any of the newer XL/XE machines.

 

The 800 also includes a composite video out as standard, the 400 only has RF out and looks pretty horrible on most TV sets.

 

Upgrading the 400 to composite/svideo out is a pain in the ***

I could see how the s-video upgrade would be a pain, but I'd though the composite mod was pretty simple. (isn't it something like patching into the composite line just as it goes into the RF modulator and adding a capacitor and resistor in-line with it to buffer for a stable and vibrant picture -even if you needed to build a transitor amp, which I sort of doubt, that's only another few seconds of soldering and not enough components to merit a breadboard even -just chain them together with the pins bent together and add some colder before connecting it to the composite line) after buffering the video it should just be a matter of hardwiring an RCA cable (and another for mono audio), or adding female RCA sockets. (or a DIN5 port if you wanted)

 

I think modding the VCS or 7800 for composite is about the same deal. (7800 is preferable to add a switch to separate TIA and MARIA video)

 

 

You can get an external RF demodulator. There are some that will clean up any ghosting or signal noise as well like the Videotek DM-154. I got one of those and they also have an internal speaker so you can hear the audio form the demodulator and the TV.

Could be easier to find a TV with good RF fine tuning/filtering capabilities. (if you don't have one already)

 

Other than that, a composite mod would be cheaper and easier (for some) than investing in a dedicated demodulator accessory that's going to be at least slightly worse anyway. (more so compared to S-video if you build a luma amp)

 

 

 

I've got very clean RF on my TV and 400, so I'm not too concerned about modding as of yet. (the 40 column text in BASIC and memopad is very clear)

Edited January 25, 2011 by kool kitty89

[atariksi]

iirc BASIC is needed for all tape operations, so a rudimentary tape loading routine built into the OS w/out BASIC would have been nice even without the other features, even without the ability to save to tape -so you could at least load tape based games and such without BASIC

 

It does. You need to hold START when powering up to load a m/l file from tape.

Ah, nice, Appolloboy failed to mention that to me, not that I'm planning on using the tape drive. (just for information's sake)

 

Aside from any programs with built-in tape save routines, BASIC would be needed for that functionality, right?

 

Any cartridge that has the "disk boot" flag set in its footer can boot a program before handing control over to the cartridge and that's a better solution than using a tape.

 

I think the 400 would be preferred if you're on a tighter budget and the keyboard isn't a deal breaker. (especially if you're reasonably competent at soldering for the 48k RAM kit -the price of the kit and a reasonable deal on a 400 would tend to be a lot more favorable than buying a 48k 800)

The compact size is a plus too. (I like the look of the 400 in general over the 800 personally, nice clean angular wedge design -and functionality aside, the keyboard looks neat too)

I have a 400 with a 32K RAM board inside and there was ZERO soldering involved. That's usually enough since 16K cartridges take up rest of RAM space anyways. But you could put in a 16K RAM cartridge and avoid soldering.

 

You can get an external RF demodulator. There are some that will clean up any ghosting or signal noise as well like the Videotek DM-154. I got one of those and they also have an internal speaker so you can hear the audio form the demodulator and the TV.

Could be easier to find a TV with good RF fine tuning/filtering capabilities. (if you don't have one already)

 

Other than that, a composite mod would be cheaper and easier (for some) than investing in a dedicated demodulator accessory that's going to be at least slightly worse anyway. (more so compared to S-video if you build a luma amp)

 

I've got very clean RF on my TV and 400, so I'm not too concerned about modding as of yet. (the 40 column text in BASIC and memopad is very clear)

 

But RF demodulators are better than the tuners within normal TVs/VCRs. And they allow you to adjust the gain on the audio/video as well. I have found the demodulators signals to be much cleaner than the stock ones within VCRs/TVs. Nowadays, with analog going out the window, those expensive demodulators used by broadcast TV stations can be had for <$50 and feature quadrature outputs, multiple amplified video outs, 4.5Mhz subcarrier output, MPX audio output, IF in/out, etc.

[JPjuice23]

Can you save high scores on the 400/800? I'm asking because if there is a word possessor, than it HAS to save data right?

 

If it can, I'm going to buy an 800 like now.

[Nukey Shay]

By itself, no. RAM memory in the computer is cleared when you turn the thing off. Any data present (whether it's high scores in a game or text in a word-processing program) is erased from memory. The game or app in question would need to store the data prior to the machine being turned off. Not all cartridges were written to include I/O routines or boot DOS to save and load scores and such...but there are some that do (such as Eastern Front, Atariwriter, even BASIC itself). It's more common to see game high score saving/loading among disk drive-based programs. But even then, it's probably in the minority. I know that Wizard Of Wor and Stealth are a couple of commercial game disks that store high scores on sector 720 of their disk. Some...like Temple Of Apshai, Ultima, or many other RPGs...require an entire disk just to save your progress in the game.

[Chilly Willy]

I think the 400 would be preferred if you're on a tighter budget and the keyboard isn't a deal breaker. (especially if you're reasonably competent at soldering for the 48k RAM kit -the price of the kit and a reasonable deal on a 400 would tend to be a lot more favorable than buying a 48k 800)

The compact size is a plus too. (I like the look of the 400 in general over the 800 personally, nice clean angular wedge design -and functionality aside, the keyboard looks neat too)

I have a 400 with a 32K RAM board inside and there was ZERO soldering involved. That's usually enough since 16K cartridges take up rest of RAM space anyways. But you could put in a 16K RAM cartridge and avoid soldering.

 

I got the 400 because: it was cheaper; it was smaller; it looks cool.

 

The 32KB ram card required no soldering or anything more than inserting the ram card. The Mosaic 64KB ram expansion also didn't require soldering if you used it in Mosaic mode - it had a special board/connector that attached to the bottom of the main PCB... very ingenious design. If you used the Mosaic in XL mode, you had to solder lines to the PIO to control the bank selection.

 

I started with the 400, a 410 cassette, and the 32KB ram card. Over the next couple years, I got the Mosaic 64KB expansion, the B-Key full-stroke replacement keyboard, and a Percom DD floppy. It was a REALLY nice system. I still have it, but have it packed away for safe keeping.

Edited January 25, 2011 by Chilly Willy

[Bryan]

Can you save high scores on the 400/800? I'm asking because if there is a word possessor, than it HAS to save data right?

 

If it can, I'm going to buy an 800 like now.

That's why Atari made these:

 

[Havok69]

Can you save high scores on the 400/800? I'm asking because if there is a word possessor, than it HAS to save data right?

 

If it can, I'm going to buy an 800 like now.

 

If you're really into gaming that much and want to save high scores, why not build a Mame machine? I love my 8 bits, but they can't compare to the real arcade version. You might want to check out this site:

 

 

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php

 

and buy this book:

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/047089153X?ie=UTF8&tag=atariage

[Nukey Shay]

Different animals, really. One might prefer a port of a game over an original.

 

Besides, there's no arcade version of Star Raiders

[Havok69]

And that's where an arcade machine can shine; I have pretty much every emulator known to man on my cab. I can play Star Raiders on my machine. (However, I prefer playing it on 800XL)

[atariksi]

I think the 400 would be preferred if you're on a tighter budget and the keyboard isn't a deal breaker. (especially if you're reasonably competent at soldering for the 48k RAM kit -the price of the kit and a reasonable deal on a 400 would tend to be a lot more favorable than buying a 48k 800)

The compact size is a plus too. (I like the look of the 400 in general over the 800 personally, nice clean angular wedge design -and functionality aside, the keyboard looks neat too)

I have a 400 with a 32K RAM board inside and there was ZERO soldering involved. That's usually enough since 16K cartridges take up rest of RAM space anyways. But you could put in a 16K RAM cartridge and avoid soldering.

 

I got the 400 because: it was cheaper; it was smaller; it looks cool.

 

The 32KB ram card required no soldering or anything more than inserting the ram card. The Mosaic 64KB ram expansion also didn't require soldering if you used it in Mosaic mode - it had a special board/connector that attached to the bottom of the main PCB... very ingenious design. If you used the Mosaic in XL mode, you had to solder lines to the PIO to control the bank selection.

 

I started with the 400, a 410 cassette, and the 32KB ram card. Over the next couple years, I got the Mosaic 64KB expansion, the B-Key full-stroke replacement keyboard, and a Percom DD floppy. It was a REALLY nice system. I still have it, but have it packed away for safe keeping.

 

Those would have been a better upgrade option for A400 users in the 1970s/80s rather than that 48K upgrade which requires soldering. At present it seems every ATari 400 has a GTIA chip upgrade and if the 32K or 64K upgrade was solder free, almost every Atari 400 would have 32K or 64K. Just like PCs gradually migrated from CGA->EGA->VGA because it was just a matter of plugging in a new board into a slot.

[+orpheuswaking]

....it's hard to get rid of.

 

 

AX

 

 

Not that hard

 

although I'm not sure what I'll do with four of these beasts!

[JPjuice23]

By itself, no. RAM memory in the computer is cleared when you turn the thing off. Any data present (whether it's high scores in a game or text in a word-processing program) is erased from memory. The game or app in question would need to store the data prior to the machine being turned off. Not all cartridges were written to include I/O routines or boot DOS to save and load scores and such...but there are some that do (such as Eastern Front, Atariwriter, even BASIC itself). It's more common to see game high score saving/loading among disk drive-based programs. But even then, it's probably in the minority. I know that Wizard Of Wor and Stealth are a couple of commercial game disks that store high scores on sector 720 of their disk. Some...like Temple Of Apshai, Ultima, or many other RPGs...require an entire disk just to save your progress in the game.

Ugh... lame. I'm over Atari computers >_>

[toptenmaterial]

By itself, no. RAM memory in the computer is cleared when you turn the thing off. Any data present (whether it's high scores in a game or text in a word-processing program) is erased from memory. The game or app in question would need to store the data prior to the machine being turned off. Not all cartridges were written to include I/O routines or boot DOS to save and load scores and such...but there are some that do (such as Eastern Front, Atariwriter, even BASIC itself). It's more common to see game high score saving/loading among disk drive-based programs. But even then, it's probably in the minority. I know that Wizard Of Wor and Stealth are a couple of commercial game disks that store high scores on sector 720 of their disk. Some...like Temple Of Apshai, Ultima, or many other RPGs...require an entire disk just to save your progress in the game.

Ugh... lame. I'm over Atari computers >_>

dude you should see if there is an expansion pack out, especially a modern one, before you give up. plus can't data be stored on cassettes? i remember my daddy jumping through all types of hoops with his early machines...

[+Stephen]

By itself, no. RAM memory in the computer is cleared when you turn the thing off. Any data present (whether it's high scores in a game or text in a word-processing program) is erased from memory. The game or app in question would need to store the data prior to the machine being turned off. Not all cartridges were written to include I/O routines or boot DOS to save and load scores and such...but there are some that do (such as Eastern Front, Atariwriter, even BASIC itself). It's more common to see game high score saving/loading among disk drive-based programs. But even then, it's probably in the minority. I know that Wizard Of Wor and Stealth are a couple of commercial game disks that store high scores on sector 720 of their disk. Some...like Temple Of Apshai, Ultima, or many other RPGs...require an entire disk just to save your progress in the game.

Ugh... lame. I'm over Atari computers >_>

I have to ask, what functionality were you expecting? It's not a modern game console with a hard drive or flash storage in it. No machines from the 70s or 80s would store data when turned off. The Famicon had game saves on cart, but these were battery backed and not reliable.