Calling All 400s!

[Rybags]

That's a reasonable theory, but then you'd reckon they'd have applied the same to stuff like earlier arcade games, the VCS and standalone TV-games.

[ClausB]

Yes, I did have a look at the 2600 SN threads but they sold in huge numbers by comparison. And maybe they went off shore by the time the 400 came along. The "Heavy Sixers" used a different SN scheme with a sequential letter at the end.

 

It's all conjecture until somebody posts some knowledge.

Edited February 19, 2011 by ClausB

[kool kitty89]

My 400 (formerly Apolloboy's) is:

AV 468285 492

 

The 492 is stamped. (I assume that refers to the 49th week of the 1982 fiscal year); the 4 is 492 is also skewed slightly to the upper left away from the other 2 (presumably a bad stamp).

 

 

I haven't read through the whole thread yet, but I noticed the point about early models having the 8 vs 16k RAM noted: was there any notification as such for later machines that shipped with 32k (or 16k machines after 32k ones started shipping)?

Edited March 7, 2011 by kool kitty89

[Tickled_Pink]

Seeing all these 400s ....

 

Haven't seen one for about 15 years. Was at a car boot sale but wasn't in great shape so didn't pick it up.

[bar897]

My serial is:

AV 243692 042

 

The keyboard is rev. 1

[iratasan]

Atari 400

48K Ram

B-Key Keyboard

S-Video mod (coming soon...)

Serial # is: AV 429921 183

 

 

[Ditto]

How fun. I thought the custom label was just something the store had done but it looks pretty common.

[ClausB]

The expert has spoken! I only had enough patience tonight to load 3 of those big scans, and they all say the 3-digit code is WWY.

[+HatNJ]

only have 1 stock 400

 

83A AV 27055 I93

[ClausB]

The list so far:

 

Atari 400 serial numbers & owners & dates WW/YY:

 

NTSC:

---------------------------

9 45 3375 ClausB 45/80

9 48 5663 (WW061/18) adam242 48/80

AV 173873 10/1 (AV 492934 402) jacobus 10/81

AV 030962 331 5863 orpheuswaking 33/81

431 6737 421 Bryan 42/81 or 43/81

481 1259 jacobus 48/81

AV 243692 042 bar897 04/82

AV 210552 142 (AV083743) Mirage 14/82

AV 361209 292 (AV 194896 7-12) Chilly Willy 29/82

AV 321493 302 tep392 30/82

AV 163775 91120 392 (AV 511363) edward1024 39/82

AV 461?73 422 Stephen 42/82

AV 485595 472 orpheuswaking 47/82

AV 468285 492 kool kitty89 49/82

AV 519454 512 Bryan 51/82

AV 434887 023 orpheuswaking 02/83

AV 459975 023 Spurge 02/83

AV 01799 043 83A jacobus 04/83

AV 02966 063 83A jacobus 06/83

AV 399609 113 Bryan 11/83

AV 418392 123 orpheuswaking 12/83

AV 399234 143 orpheuswaking 14/83

AV 368167 153 (AV397463) BillC 15/83

AV 278113 163 OracleJedi 16/83

AV 430383 173 doctorclu 17/83

AV 429921 183 iratasan 18/83

AV 27055 193 HatNJ 19/83

AV 523584 doctorclu ??/??

AV 302124 Bryan ??/??

AV 316722 (AV 160238 9122) Ditto ??/??

AV 330172 potatohead ??/??

AV 421708 swlovinist ??/??

AV 479540 jsmith73 ??/??

 

PAL:

---------------------------

051 004998 (351) Rybags

G 172 BY 102534 (050 005417) 431 mimo

051 006809 032 skr

BY 116316 032 mimo

BZ 105407 Sleepy

BZ 110353 (082) sup8pdct

 

To those who show as ??/??: Please post the 3-digit code from either the label or the silver stamping on the case.

[OldAtarian]

Don't tell anyone, but every time I've found a CTIA, it's been in a machine that had the ram size printed on the case label.

Makes sense - by the time GTIAs were in place, all machines would have been 16K. I have never seen a machine with a CTIA or less than 16k

 

That may be so in the US, but as far as I am aware the UK only ever got 16K GTIA models, you could buy 48K ones later in the 400's life though

 

 

When did the 400 ever sell with 48k? The 400 only has one memory slot so all 48k would have to have been on one board. I have yet to see an Atari 48k memory board. If I had I would have bought three of them for my 800 long ago.

Edited March 24, 2011 by OldAtarian

[+orpheuswaking]

Don't tell anyone, but every time I've found a CTIA, it's been in a machine that had the ram size printed on the case label.

Makes sense - by the time GTIAs were in place, all machines would have been 16K. I have never seen a machine with a CTIA or less than 16k

 

That may be so in the US, but as far as I am aware the UK only ever got 16K GTIA models, you could buy 48K ones later in the 400's life though

 

 

When did the 400 ever sell with 48k? The 400 only has one memory slot so all 48k would have to have been on one board. I have yet to see an Atari 48k memory board. If I had I would have bought three of them for my 800 long ago.

 

There are a number of aftermarket 48k boards, but they all require minimal modification of the mainboard... Atari even released one late in the 400's life. Not sure if any late life models shipped with one as standard though.

[mimo]

Don't tell anyone, but every time I've found a CTIA, it's been in a machine that had the ram size printed on the case label.

Makes sense - by the time GTIAs were in place, all machines would have been 16K. I have never seen a machine with a CTIA or less than 16k

 

That may be so in the US, but as far as I am aware the UK only ever got 16K GTIA models, you could buy 48K ones later in the 400's life though

 

 

When did the 400 ever sell with 48k? The 400 only has one memory slot so all 48k would have to have been on one board. I have yet to see an Atari 48k memory board. If I had I would have bought three of them for my 800 long ago.

 

There are a number of aftermarket 48k boards, but they all require minimal modification of the mainboard... Atari even released one late in the 400's life. Not sure if any late life models shipped with one as standard though.

 

I remember that you could buy a 48K 400 in the UK, had a big round red 48K sticker on the box, not sure if they were official though.

I did have a boxed one until a couple of years ago, but decided that boxed stuff was not my thing

 

The 400 required some wires adding and some traces on the motherboard to be cut, as far as I know they were not compatible with the 800.

Best have some official 48k mods available at a good price.

 

http://www.best-electronics-ca.com/800.htm#48K%202

Edited March 25, 2011 by mimo

[carmel_andrews]

Here's a question, if Atari's retail partner (sears) hadn't suggested making a lo-cost version of the A800 (as sears suggested that the a800 would'nt be as mass-marketable as a lo-cost version) would atari have bothered making the a400

[erazmus]

Here's a question, if Atari's retail partner (sears) hadn't suggested making a lo-cost version of the A800 (as sears suggested that the a800 would'nt be as mass-marketable as a lo-cost version) would atari have bothered making the a400

If they did have second thoughts, it didn't stop them in the next two generations (600XL vs 800XL, 65XE vs 130XE)

[jacobus]

The engineering drawings supplied by Curt certainly confirm the MMY format for the last three digit cluster in the serial number. Unfortunately this indicates that a large proportion (12) of the 400s owned by members here were manufactured during 1983. I was under the impression that manufacturing of the 400 and 800 ceased in early 1982 at the latest. Do these serial numbers tell a different story or did Atari stop using the same numbering scheme at some point?

 

Hmmm... I had another look at the drawings and with one exception, they were all drawn in late 1982. The one exception (done in January 1980) does not list show any formatting information for the serial number.

[tep392]

The engineering drawings supplied by Curt certainly confirm the MMY format for the last three digit cluster in the serial number. Unfortunately this indicates that a large proportion (12) of the 400s owned by members here were manufactured during 1983. I was under the impression that manufacturing of the 400 and 800 ceased in early 1982 at the latest. Do these serial numbers tell a different story or did Atari stop using the same numbering scheme at some point?

 

Hmmm... I had another look at the drawings and with one exception, they were all drawn in late 1982. The one exception (done in January 1980) does not list show any formatting information for the serial number.

 

If you look at the upper right corner of 3rd drawing from the top, 400-fcc-tawain-domestic.jpg, you will see that the drawing was revised on 5/3/83. I could see Atari making drawing revisions for service parts even after production has ceased, but it seems strange to update labels that would only be used in production. Maybe they were still making machines into 1983.

[BillC]

400 was way more common here, among the user group I went to it was probably 10 to 1 or more.

 

Really, once 48K upgrades became available, the only real reason for getting the 800 was the better keyboard.

And the monitor port of course.

[BillC]

The engineering drawings supplied by Curt certainly confirm the MMY format for the last three digit cluster in the serial number. Unfortunately this indicates that a large proportion (12) of the 400s owned by members here were manufactured during 1983. I was under the impression that manufacturing of the 400 and 800 ceased in early 1982 at the latest. Do these serial numbers tell a different story or did Atari stop using the same numbering scheme at some point?

 

Hmmm... I had another look at the drawings and with one exception, they were all drawn in late 1982. The one exception (done in January 1980) does not list show any formatting information for the serial number.

 

If you look at the upper right corner of 3rd drawing from the top, 400-fcc-tawain-domestic.jpg, you will see that the drawing was revised on 5/3/83. I could see Atari making drawing revisions for service parts even after production has ceased, but it seems strange to update labels that would only be used in production. Maybe they were still making machines into 1983.

It could be that with slow initial sales of the 1200XL due to incompatibilities with some software, but with sales for 400/800 machines unchanged or even increasing for the same reason, that Atari decided to keep the 400 in production temporarily. The 400 was the logical choice since it was cheaper to produce due to its more compact 4-board design compared to the 7-board 800.

 

A 400 with 48K RAM is almost as capable as an 800, only really lacking the DIN5 monitor port and the inability to use 80-column video cards. I don't know whether the 400 is capable of using any of the larger third-party RAM cards other than the Mosaic 64K, although I have seen a posting about a 400 with 256K, but there wasn't much software requiring more than 48K in 1983 either. There is also the issue with the membrane keyboard of course.

 

The serial #s in this thread show 400 production in Sunnyvale as late as 19th week of 1983(AV 27055 193 HatNJ 19/83) and in Hong Kong as late as 6th week of 1983(83A AV 02966 063 jacobus 06/83)

[jacobus]

The engineering drawings supplied by Curt certainly confirm the MMY format for the last three digit cluster in the serial number. Unfortunately this indicates that a large proportion (12) of the 400s owned by members here were manufactured during 1983. I was under the impression that manufacturing of the 400 and 800 ceased in early 1982 at the latest. Do these serial numbers tell a different story or did Atari stop using the same numbering scheme at some point?

 

Hmmm... I had another look at the drawings and with one exception, they were all drawn in late 1982. The one exception (done in January 1980) does not list show any formatting information for the serial number.

 

If you look at the upper right corner of 3rd drawing from the top, 400-fcc-tawain-domestic.jpg, you will see that the drawing was revised on 5/3/83. I could see Atari making drawing revisions for service parts even after production has ceased, but it seems strange to update labels that would only be used in production. Maybe they were still making machines into 1983.

It could be that with slow initial sales of the 1200XL due to incompatibilities with some software, but with sales for 400/800 machines unchanged or even increasing for the same reason, that Atari decided to keep the 400 in production temporarily. The 400 was the logical choice since it was cheaper to produce due to its more compact 4-board design compared to the 7-board 800.

 

A 400 with 48K RAM is almost as capable as an 800, only really lacking the DIN5 monitor port and the inability to use 80-column video cards. I don't know whether the 400 is capable of using any of the larger third-party RAM cards other than the Mosaic 64K, although I have seen a posting about a 400 with 256K, but there wasn't much software requiring more than 48K in 1983 either. There is also the issue with the membrane keyboard of course.

 

The serial #s in this thread show 400 production in Sunnyvale as late as 19th week of 1983(AV 27055 193 HatNJ 19/83) and in Hong Kong as late as 6th week of 1983(83A AV 02966 063 jacobus 06/83)

 

Or possibly they warehoused a bunch of complete units and only added the stickers just before shipping.

 

This 400 (eBay) has a serial number of 514. last week of December 1984 - this really makes the MMY theory implausible! But then again, maybe we should all bid on this one - it could be the last 400 ever made!

 

Edit: Although the photo is blurry, I double checked with the seller who confirms the 514.

Edited March 30, 2011 by jacobus

[BillC]

The list so far:

 

Atari 400 serial numbers & owners & dates WW/YY:

 

NTSC:

---------------------------

9 45 3375 ClausB 45/80

9 48 5663 (WW061/18) adam242 48/80

AV 173873 10/1 (AV 492934 402) jacobus 10/81

AV 030962 331 5863 orpheuswaking 33/81

431 6737 421 Bryan 42/81 or 43/81

481 1259 jacobus 48/81

AV 243692 042 bar897 04/82

AV 210552 142 (AV083743) Mirage 14/82

AV 361209 292 (AV 194896 7-12) Chilly Willy 29/82

AV 321493 302 tep392 30/82

AV 163775 91120 392 (AV 511363) edward1024 39/82

AV 461?73 422 Stephen 42/82

AV 485595 472 orpheuswaking 47/82

AV 468285 492 kool kitty89 49/82

AV 519454 512 Bryan 51/82

AV 434887 023 orpheuswaking 02/83

AV 459975 023 Spurge 02/83

AV 01799 043 83A jacobus 04/83

AV 02966 063 83A jacobus 06/83

AV 399609 113 Bryan 11/83

AV 418392 123 orpheuswaking 12/83

AV 399234 143 orpheuswaking 14/83

AV 368167 153 (AV397463) BillC 15/83

AV 278113 163 OracleJedi 16/83

AV 430383 173 doctorclu 17/83

AV 429921 183 iratasan 18/83

AV 27055 193 HatNJ 19/83

AV 523584 doctorclu ??/??

AV 302124 Bryan ??/??

AV 316722 (AV 160238 9122) Ditto ??/??

AV 330172 potatohead ??/??

AV 421708 swlovinist ??/??

AV 479540 jsmith73 ??/??

 

PAL:

---------------------------

051 004998 (351) Rybags

G 172 BY 102534 (050 005417) 431 mimo

051 006809 032 skr

BY 116316 032 mimo

BZ 105407 Sleepy

BZ 110353 (082) sup8pdct

 

To those who show as ??/??: Please post the 3-digit code from either the label or the silver stamping on the case.

These first 2 on the list appear to have the date code at the start and were most likely produced in the 45th and 48th weeks of 1979, not 1980, respectively. The 400 and 800 were available in limited quantities for Christmas 1979 and these are low serial/production #s. :!:

Claus: I noticed the post about the later ROM, but perhaps it failed and was replaced before you acquired it.

9 45 3375 ClausB 45/80

9 48 5663 (WW061/18) adam242 48/80

 

There are inconsistencies in labeling of 400s(800s and other models too?), in the 1979 to 81 period. They must have standardized labeling in 1982, although the double labeling is confusing with the 82/83 devices too.

 

In your list you have moved the Plant Code(83A) to between the serial/production # and date code instead of at the start.

It is possible that the same serial/production # could be used on 2 different models, or even the same model manufactured at different plants, the difference in plant code or model number in the complete # is sufficient. This is likely given the low serial numbers for the Honk Kong produced 400s on the list.

 

For the PAL 400s, BY and BZ could be Plant Codes but are most likely Product Codes, instead of AV for NTSC, for different PAL versions.

 

I know this thread is about the 400, but thought I would mention what I have noticed of the Warner/Atari labels overall. I have multiple samples of all but the 410/850/1020 labels. This is by not complete by any means, my 800/810 were acquired unlabeled and there are others I don't have.

 

In general the following appears to be the format used by the later labels for most models. One conflict among the devices I have is 2 600XLs labeled Hong Kong/83A plant code and an 850 labeled U.S.A./83A plant code. Does the 850 label have a typo, with 83S being the correct plant code? Another exception is my early model 410, serial #X4434, no date code stamp or imprint but DOM known to be in 1980, there was also a metal label plate on the bottom which has gone missing.

 

Plant Code, 3 character:

Not included for Sunnyvale labeled 400/410(others too?), those start with model #.

72R = Taiwan (800XL/1200XL labels)

7VD = Singapore (Singapore 1050 label starting with 7VDFF)

83A = U.S.A. (USA 850 label starting with 83AHN)

83A = Hong Kong (600XL label)Also the Hong Kong 400s listed above.

83S = U.S.A. (1200XL label) Maybe the code for Sunnyvale Plant omitted on 400 labels?

9Z6 = Japan (Japan 1020 label starting with 9Z6FB)

 

Model #, 2 character:

AV = 400

AC = 410

HN = 850

EA = 600XL

HA = 800XL

DA = 1200XL

FB = 1020

FF = 1050

 

Serial/Production #, up to 6 digits(could be higher but I haven't seen any). This gives up to 1 million/product/plant.

Followed by 3 digit date code in WWY format, usually stamped, sometimes absent.

 

I can't say much about the label format of the later devices, I only have a 130XE, an XEGS and an XF551, not enough samples.

 

130XE: A1(851 or 8511 stamp)1108522 (most likely 8511/YYWW)

XF551: W1845016676(845 slightly darker than other characters, possible date code format YYW or YWW)

XES: A17A1038955 (most confusing, 7A or 7A1 appears to be slightly darker, if date code what would it decode to)

 

This 130XE does have bad MT 4264 memory I have yet to repair, I can't see the date code as 1st week 1985 or 51st week 1988 because all ICs except POKEY and PIA have a late 1984/early 1985(latest is 8504) date code. This allows 6 or 7 weeks between DOM of last IC and of the computer.

Edited March 30, 2011 by BillC

[BillC]

The engineering drawings supplied by Curt certainly confirm the MMY format for the last three digit cluster in the serial number. Unfortunately this indicates that a large proportion (12) of the 400s owned by members here were manufactured during 1983. I was under the impression that manufacturing of the 400 and 800 ceased in early 1982 at the latest. Do these serial numbers tell a different story or did Atari stop using the same numbering scheme at some point?

 

Hmmm... I had another look at the drawings and with one exception, they were all drawn in late 1982. The one exception (done in January 1980) does not list show any formatting information for the serial number.

 

If you look at the upper right corner of 3rd drawing from the top, 400-fcc-tawain-domestic.jpg, you will see that the drawing was revised on 5/3/83. I could see Atari making drawing revisions for service parts even after production has ceased, but it seems strange to update labels that would only be used in production. Maybe they were still making machines into 1983.

It could be that with slow initial sales of the 1200XL due to incompatibilities with some software, but with sales for 400/800 machines unchanged or even increasing for the same reason, that Atari decided to keep the 400 in production temporarily. The 400 was the logical choice since it was cheaper to produce due to its more compact 4-board design compared to the 7-board 800.

 

A 400 with 48K RAM is almost as capable as an 800, only really lacking the DIN5 monitor port and the inability to use 80-column video cards. I don't know whether the 400 is capable of using any of the larger third-party RAM cards other than the Mosaic 64K, although I have seen a posting about a 400 with 256K, but there wasn't much software requiring more than 48K in 1983 either. There is also the issue with the membrane keyboard of course.

 

The serial #s in this thread show 400 production in Sunnyvale as late as 19th week of 1983(AV 27055 193 HatNJ 19/83) and in Hong Kong as late as 6th week of 1983(83A AV 02966 063 jacobus 06/83)

 

Or possibly they warehoused a bunch of complete units and only added the stickers just before shipping.

 

This 400 (eBay) has a serial number of 514. last week of December 1984 - this really makes the MMY theory implausible! But then again, maybe we should all bid on this one - it could be the last 400 ever made!

 

Edit: Although the photo is blurry, I double checked with the seller who confirms the 514.

The date code is WWY, not MMY. Given the serial# this should have been manufactured much earlier, I notice that it is very close to this # in the list, AV 302124 Bryan ??/??, for which no date code has been posted.

 

According to the Official FAQ at Atarimania: http://www.atarimania.com/faq-atari-400-800-xl-xe-what-is-the-history-of-atari_92.html

 

quote from 1983
May: Production of Atari 400/800 computers and 810 disk drives ended.

This fits with the last date code, 19th week of 1983, given in this thread.

 

It also mentions the Atari 400 48K memory upgrade was introduced later that summer, after 400 production ceased.

 

It is possible that this machine was part of unsold inventory when Jack took over without having been date coded. Perhaps the systems were date coded when processed for shipment instead of when manufactured. Although this doesn't make much sense when you have warehouses full of product.

 

When Jack disposed of this unsold inventory at greatly reduced prices this particular 400 could have been date coded then.

[Fox-1 / mnx]

Finally dug up my Atari 400, to discover it has sticky OPTION key.

 

PAL, 16KB, GTIA.

 

ATARI / 362

BY 118067

BY 111548 830

 

 

[owinnimo]

AV 201267

AV 221992

AV 293339 & G 214 AV106682-16 06/03 L10 T

AV 359757 522

AV 379819

AV 420359 203

AV 458143

AV 463312

G 16K 023356 & G 144 AV055060-16 1/13 L40 P

G 16K 381 6793

G 16K 391 8230

[ClausB]

Updated list:

 

 

Atari 400 serial numbers & owners & dates WW/YY:

 

NTSC:

---------------------------

9 45 3375 ClausB 45/80

9 48 5663 (WW061/18) adam242 48/80

AV 173873 10/1 (AV 492934 402) jacobus 10/81

AV 030962 331 5863 orpheuswaking 33/81

381 6793 owinnimo 38/81

391 8230 owinnimo 39/81

431 6737 421 Bryan 42/81 or 43/81

481 1259 jacobus 48/81

AV 024184 022 Sean39 02/82

AV 243692 042 bar897 04/82

AV 210552 142 (AV083743) Mirage 14/82

AV 361209 292 (AV 194896 7-12) Chilly Willy 29/82

AV 321493 302 tep392 30/82

AV 163775 91120 392 (AV 511363) edward1024 39/82

AV 461?73 422 Stephen 42/82

AV 485595 472 orpheuswaking 47/82

AV 468285 492 kool kitty89 49/82

AV 519454 512 Bryan 51/82

AV 359757 522 owinnimo 52/82

AV 434887 023 orpheuswaking 02/83

AV 459975 023 Spurge 02/83

AV 01799 043 83A jacobus 04/83

AV 02966 063 83A jacobus 06/83

AV 399609 113 Bryan 11/83

AV 418392 123 orpheuswaking 12/83

AV 399234 143 orpheuswaking 14/83

AV 368167 153 (AV397463) BillC 15/83

AV 278113 163 OracleJedi 16/83

AV 430383 173 doctorclu 17/83

AV 429921 183 iratasan 18/83

AV 27055 193 HatNJ 19/83

AV 420359 203 owinnimo 20/83

AV 523584 doctorclu ??/??

AV 302124 Bryan ??/??

AV 316722 (AV 160238 9122) Ditto ??/??

AV 330172 potatohead ??/??

AV 421708 swlovinist ??/??

AV 479540 jsmith73 ??/??

several owinnimo ??/??

 

PAL:

---------------------------

051 004998 (351) Rybags

G 172 BY 102534 (050 005417) 431 mimo

051 006809 032 skr

BY 116316 032 mimo

BZ 105407 Sleepy

BZ 110353 (082) sup8pdct

BY 118067 362 (BY 111548 830) Fox-1 / mnx