Send in the Clones

[tz101]

With NOAC technology making clones of Genesis, NES, and SNES possible these days, I am wondering why there seems to be no effort to clone some of the other classic systems. As the older consoles begin to fail over time, there will be a definite need for replacement options. Why no Atari 2600, 5200, or 7800 clones? Why no N64 or Jaguar clones? For that matter, the disc based systems will most likely have shorter life spans, so why not PSX or Dreamcast clones?

 

Is it that companies don't think that the market share is there?

[dooglehead]

The Atari Flashback 2 has an Atari 2600 on a chip, if that counts.

[bmcnett]

With NOAC technology making clones of Genesis, NES, and SNES possible these days, I am wondering why there seems to be no effort to clone some of the other classic systems. As the older consoles begin to fail over time, there will be a definite need for replacement options. Why no Atari 2600, 5200, or 7800 clones? Why no N64 or Jaguar clones? For that matter, the disc based systems will most likely have shorter life spans, so why not PSX or Dreamcast clones?

 

Is it that companies don't think that the market share is there?

 

Just my guess - it's possible to clone or emulate NES/SNES/Genesis without counting CPU cycles to match the video scanout hardware perfectly, and still a lot of fun games will work. This isn't true of the Atari consoles. Plus, before NES three-color sprites at 256-wide resolution were possible but tricky. Once you have three colors, you can get characters with moustaches and eyes and shoes and hair. People are hardwired to relate emotionally to those details, so there's more demand for systems that can render them.

 

As for Jaguar, the hardware was complicated and weird (read: interesting!), and there weren't that many games for Jaguar that a large market would feel nostalgia for. N64 had a custom GPU that is hard to clone or emulate. You can target its graphics at an off-the-shelf GPU and get lots of glitching, or maybe run the graphics on a CPU that is too expensive to put in a cheapo clone box.

[tz101]

Y, that's the closest of anything right now beyond the NOAC consoles.

[Reaperman]

I'm rather surprised that SNK hasn't tried to cash in with a reasonably priced handheld or plug-and-play Neo Geo compatible system yet. (without cart compatibility)

The hardware was mostly simple, and they love re-releasing games. Throw an HDMI port on the back and everybody and their brother would want one. Hell, we'd all buy games for the old ones if they just kept making them.

 

I'm even more surprised that china hasn't really managed a clone neo geo yet. They made (and still make) tons of pirated carts, but why no hardware? A real NES costs about what clones do, so it's not like we're saving money--with a neo geo clone though, things would be a little different.

Edited February 9, 2011 by Reaperman

[S1500]

The Atari Flashback 2 has an Atari 2600 on a chip, if that counts.

 

And the FB has been cloned too, much to the dismay of the community. If only Atari made more FB2 consoles... Yeah I know that won't stop bootlegging, but..

[godslabrat]

With NOAC technology making clones of Genesis, NES, and SNES possible these days, I am wondering why there seems to be no effort to clone some of the other classic systems. As the older consoles begin to fail over time, there will be a definite need for replacement options. Why no Atari 2600, 5200, or 7800 clones? Why no N64 or Jaguar clones? For that matter, the disc based systems will most likely have shorter life spans, so why not PSX or Dreamcast clones?

 

Is it that companies don't think that the market share is there?

 

From the similar times I've looked into this question, I've been told that manufacturers simply don't think there's a market for a 2600/5200/7800 clone. I've brought up the fact that the system could probably be sold at a profit for almost nothing, and yet the sentiment remains. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe not. No one will know until someone tries.

 

N64 clones might be tricky, because I don't think the N64 is quite old enough to have all the technology patents expire (remember, the floodgates on NES clones didn't open up until right after the majority of patents expired). I'd also think the design of the controllers would make cheap reproduction difficult, and cheap is the name of the game when it comes to clones.

 

There actually was a clone of the Dreamcast during or right after its initial lifespan... called the Treamcast, and it had a built in screen. I do believe it was very popular.

 

Jaguar clone? I don't think the system was popular enough to warrant cloning at all... I almost said the same thing about the N64, but I think there's enough used games floating around to make that debatable.

 

The more I look into clones, the more I'm willing to spend good money to buy and refurb the real thing.

[Austin]

I could be wrong, but didn't the Treamcast use original Dreamcast hardware? I thought they used existing DC systems to build them. Not really a "clone" per-se, at least not in the same sense as something that uses NOAC tech.

[The Usotsuki]

Wasn't the C64DTV a C64 on a chip?

[thegamezmaster]

Too bad there's not a Colecovision clone.

[128Kgames]

Too bad there's not a Colecovision clone.

 

There was, it was originally called the DINA.

[tz101]

Too bad there's not a Colecovision clone.

 

There was, it was originally called the DINA.

 

Y, but what gamezmaster is really getting at is a need for a modern CV clone, much like the 3 in 1 systems that have MD/NES/SNES capabilities. The DINA systems are rare and hard to find, much like CV consoles themselves. What we really need is the production of modern hardware that plays classic game carts. Not too much to ask, is it?

[ls650]

Personally I'd much rather have a Colecovision clone than an NES clone.

[johnny_boy]

A Colecovision clone could also possibly offer MSX and Sega SG-1000 compatibility, without much trouble. With a decent gamepad and modern video output, it could be pretty neat.

 

I know there's already an MSX-on-a-chip, but I don't think it replicates the Coleco's sound chip if I recall correctly.

[caver]

I think bmc and godslabrat basically sum it up nicely....

 

They have to be cheap so that Joe Average will pick them up, Patents get in the way, and they have to have something Joe Average relates to (mario, sonic, just a popular system overall, etc)... As much as we like this kind of stuff, we need enough Average Joes to buy them that they can sell them cheaply (economy of scale), since if it cost 2x as much to buy a clone then the real thing then even most of us won't buy them, let alone Joe Average.

 

That pretty much eliminates any unpopular system, or any overly complex system... Though the PS1 seems like something that could seriously happen, once the patents expire (or making the chips is cheap enough, since we know the patents don't really stop china) none of the hardware seems too difficult, plus the system was insanely popular, controllers (non Dual Shock) are simple enough, Remove the optical drive and pop on a SD card slot (while I would rather have a cd drive proper, I can see that being cost prohibitive).... I can see that happening.... I'd love it if on some future trip to asia I can pick up both a PS4 looking FamiClone, and a Nintendo Wii2 looking PS1clone... That'd be funny!

 

I do think the practice may see troubles ahead though, after the ps1, the hardware gets kinda tricky... Emotion engines, Nvidia, and ATI GPU's, PPC processors running at hundreds of mhz.... These don't seem like things easy to copy... Then again, maybe I don't give china enough credit, or maybe china steals it's credit, I don't know.... Well see.... And I hope to see....

 

chris

Edited February 10, 2011 by caver

[SRGilbert]

I've said it before, but all I want is a Flashback2 with an SD card slot like the Flashback portable was going to have.

[ls650]

Yes, I'd really like to see a small portable 2600 clone that either has internal flash storage accessed with USB or an SD-card.

[SEgamer]

I'd love to see an N64 or PS1 clone, but as people have said, the technology is too far ahead or there's not enough information publicly available to make them for a decent price. The reason that most of what we've seen are older systems is because it's fairly simple to imitate them with just a microcontroller, rom chip, and a simple graphics circuit (I think, it's been awhile since I've opened up a plug n play "system").

 

After reading this thread and being reminded about the super everdrive, it makes me want to put my degree to some better use

Edited February 11, 2011 by SEgamer

[bmcnett]

Technically speaking a PS1 clone is pretty easy, which is why PS2 and PS3 and PSP can play them. Licensing remains the hard part. Good luck if your company's name doesn't rhyme with Fony.

[caver]

Technically speaking a PS1 clone is pretty easy, which is why PS2 and PS3 and PSP can play them. Licensing remains the hard part. Good luck if your company's name doesn't rhyme with Fony.

In the us at least patents expire after 20 years, Wikipedia states that the us relase date of the PS was September 9, 1995, so as long as they don't call it a sony, or a playstation, assuming they can and want to do it, they won't have to licence anything starting Sept. 9 2015 at the latest (since you'd have to patent everything before you released it)... Also Licencing never stopped china before.

Edited February 13, 2011 by caver

[nathanallan]

Not sure if it counts as a clone or not, but PS1 emulation in a dedicated box already exists. Having trouble finding a link right now, but it's out there and looks pretty cool. It uses SD as carts and has two controllers with TV out. Very nifty little thing. Maybe someone can help me out with what it's called.

 

Also makes me wonder why someone hasn't done the same to a Dreamcast yet. I would adore a clone that uses SD and not CD's on that thing.

 

/edit Found it, and it was on these very forums. LINK

 

And again LINK to another site.

 

Kudos to ls650 for finding it

Edited February 13, 2011 by nathanallan

[caver]

Not sure if it counts as a clone or not, but PS1 emulation in a dedicated box already exists. Having trouble finding a link right now, but it's out there and looks pretty cool. It uses SD as carts and has two controllers with TV out. Very nifty little thing. Maybe someone can help me out with what it's called.

 

Also makes me wonder why someone hasn't done the same to a Dreamcast yet. I would adore a clone that uses SD and not CD's on that thing.

 

/edit Found it, and it was on these very forums. LINK

 

And again LINK to another site.

 

Kudos to ls650 for finding it

 

This is an interesting point, and possibly a hint as to what's coming with these things... I had taken clones to mean devices that did the emulation in hardware, but considering the goals of the creators (low cost hardware, low cost development), it very well might be that the future of clones are to all be emulated in software....

 

I hope not, I like the idea of hardware clones because I want to at least be able to dream of using the original software (IE my disks/carts) on the clone, even if I have to mod it, (like the FB2)...

 

Chris

[Desfeek]

Why do we need a PS1 clone? I could go out right now and find 3 or 4 PS1s for under $20. I only get interested in clone systems when the original is rare, expensive, or both. Someone start building Vector monitors again! A Dina 2 would be pretty sweet.

 

How about this: A Kindle / iPad text-based adventure compilation

[nathanallan]

The reason for a clone like that one in particular (PS1) to me would be for homebrewing games. And having a disk-less PS1 is neat all by itself.

[StoneAgeGamer]

Why do we need a PS1 clone? I could go out right now and find 3 or 4 PS1s for under $20. I only get interested in clone systems when the original is rare, expensive, or both. Someone start building Vector monitors again! A Dina 2 would be pretty sweet.

 

How about this: A Kindle / iPad text-based adventure compilation

 

They won't build clones for rare systems, they want to make money. The high majority of people aren't interested in the Vectrex, that's just the reality.

 

For a clone to be successful now-a-days it has to do something original didn't do out of the box (SD card support, s-video, portable, GOOD wireless controllers, and/or multiple systems in one) and it also has to be for a very popular system. The only exception may be the cheap $15 NES clones, they are popular because they are so cheap.

 

I think the only way we will see clones beyond the 16-bit era will be via clones that emulate like the AtGames clones do. Also I am unsure if we will see clones for CD based systems or not. IMO the less moving parts in Chinese electronics the better.