Why does historical significance take such a back seat to rarity?

[+wood_jl]

I with those who said they don't collect for rarity. I collect for fun. If I were in the business of rarity, I'd probably switch to collecting coins, or some other commodity of certain value and a value that appeals to a broader demographic, than do video games. If the economy bites the big one hard, I don't think you'll see Heavy Sixers going for 20x the price of the more common models.

 

You certainly won't see auctions like this:

 

eBay Auction -- Item Number: 290532042895

 

....which is at $710, has 2 days left, and THEY'RE BOTH 4-SWICHERS!!! What's crazy is that the reserve still hasn't been met. I'm laughing, but I might stop if the seller actually rakes in that kind of dough. But he may be too greedy: The reserve still hasn't been met, and he's changed it twice. Wonder if he's going up or down?

[Rex Dart]

the thing about rarity is that you have a number scale- it's easy to assign a price based on the the rarity number.

 

there's no measument for units of historical value.

 

 

Yup yup. I'm sure sellers would love to know which games you cherish from your childhood so they can gouge you on the prices, but they have no way of knowing. This is probably not unrelated to eBay sellers listing everything under the sun as L@@K RARE with twenty-dollar starting bids.

[Frostbite76]

Supply and Demand is what counts.

 

As a former history major I realize that, unfortunately, history doesn't mean much to many people.

No correction. History doesn't mean much to Atari 2600 collectors.

 

Yeah I agree with you. I don't understand why people shell out hundreds of dollars for all those 8-10 rare games when 99% of them suck. I wouldn't mind spending alot of money on a rare game if it was fun to play. But spending $300 bucks on a game that belongs in the trash is not for me.

[SpaceDice2010]

I really truly don't understand it. I mean for instance the Heavy Sixer is heaped with praise, but when it comes down to it, it really isn't much more than a regular Atari 2600. With comics the first printing means something. With books the first printing has a HUGE significance, but with the Atari 2600 even though the Heavy Sixer is about 10 times as rare as the 4 switch woody, it still only commands about 20 more dollars on the open market. Even the design of the system looks better in my opinion. If it stopped at that, then that would be one thing, but it goes on. Scrabbler recently sold two very minty Centipede competition shirts. The shirts had a boat load of history, and yet they only went for $150.

 

For whatever reason. It is almost ALWAYS about the rarity. Screw the rarity, how bout historically significant is the game, how did it influence a culture. Yet it takes a back seat to rarity. There is so much history with this system that gets overlooked constantly in favor of crummy games that are super rare. It is time to take a look at ourselves in the mirror, and ask ourselves if this really should be the end all, and be all to looking at things.

 

Comics don't do this. Movie poster collectors don't do this. Baseball card collectors don't do this. Heck almost any other collecting industry does not do this. Yet we have zombified ourselves into thinking rarity, rarity, rarity, rarity, rarity. Nothing else matters. Not game play, not condition, not historical significance. No nothing. Just rarity, rarity, rarity.

 

I think that much of it boils down to education. There are some collectors that are VERY educated in the Atari market. Let's be real, how many that buy an Atari on Ebay actually know that the heavy sixer was made in the US and was Atari's first console? And is much harder to find than the others? Hell. Most people when they see a six switch Atari have no idea what they are getting. And Ebay sellers don't help the matter at all.

 

I for one like to collect games that are technological firsts on the Atari and actually created a thread about just that, though I am sure that in that thread a lot of games were missed.

 

I also like to collect games that started a generation. Pitfall was one of the first platformers. Enduro was one of the first racing games of it's type etc. But, the prices don't reflect that just for the simple fact that there is so much supply.

 

My nib copy of MegaMania along with the mint/new patch to go along with it is worth way more to me than a copy of an Ultravision title. Not so much for "historical" reasons, but the fact that it was my favorite games. (Kinda obvious from my screen name.)

 

As for rarity, I don't even thing the rarity charts are all that accurate.

[SpaceDice2010]

Supply and Demand is what counts.

 

As a former history major I realize that, unfortunately, history doesn't mean much to many people.

No correction. History doesn't mean much to Atari 2600 collectors.

 

Yeah I agree with you. I don't understand why people shell out hundreds of dollars for all those 8-10 rare games when 99% of them suck. I wouldn't mind spending alot of money on a rare game if it was fun to play. But spending $300 bucks on a game that belongs in the trash is not for me.

 

Because some collectors are those that want a complete collection and will pay anything when they get down to the last few games that they need. For some it may even be an "investment" as those are the games that have the most potential to go up in value.

[fffff]

One other observation I had while reading this very intriguing discussion. Pehaps another reason for the difference in video game collecting is that video games are relatively new items. Perhaps there isn't much historical significance yet (well to us maybe but not to the public at large). I was trying to think of my days collecting baseball cards in the 90's, and it seemed it was still about the rarity with newer cards. The valuable ones were the 219:1 odds gold cards, etc, etc. I have no idea what the industry is like now, I know newer cards aren't worth crap. Can give a similar anaolgy to comics in the 90s with special hologram covers, etc, etc.

 

EDIT: Just remembered this but rarity still reers its head even in classic card collecting. If I remember correctly later series 1962 Topps commons were worth more than earlier series because they were rarer. But yes, history seems to have trumped that for the most part...it's an interesting thing to try to break down.

Edited February 16, 2011 by fffff

[nofrills100]

I collect rare historic obscure atari games!

 

 

[DickNixonArisen]

One thing with collecting atari - the common titles are Very common. Without looking up sales figures, I'd feel confident saying that there's one copy of defender, asteroids, combat and pac-man for each human that is alive or has ever lived. That's why they just can't be worth that much - even if demand for original era atari products climbs, which it seems to be doing, there are just too many copies around that will sell for cheaper. You see a lot of people at flea markets who don't know that, they automatically think that it's rare "because it's old" or "was the first video game" (of course we all know better, but...) and want ten or fifteen for a dollar game. Pac-man and combat are still dollar games. I overheard a guy bragging in gamestop about having a boxed 2600, how it was a 'holy grail'. That's what the civilian population thinks. The old me would have burst his bubble, but the slightly newer me just let it go.

 

I bought a roman coin for a dollar from an antique dealer when I was a kid and could not wrap my heard around the fact that it was worth so little despite being in fairly nice shape and well over a thousand years old. There were just so, so many of them, in so many places in the world, that the supply isn't going to run short. Atari games last a long time, and there are lots of them. Rare games will always be more sought-after for this reason - BUT you could create demand through beanie-baby like bubble hype, or by obtaining and witholding a great deal of stock, buying out the competitors to create artificial scarcity. That's how diamonds work - there are a LOT of diamonds sitting in vaults. If they were all on the market, their value would drop, perhaps even into sane regions. This would be bad for DeBeers and such. So they stay in the vaults.

 

The point? Buy up all the Air-Sea battles and lord it over everyone else!

Edited February 16, 2011 by DickNixonArisen

[DickNixonArisen]

The hologram covers is a good point too. I don't know for sure, but I'd safely bet that they're not worth much, simply because people kept them, and kept them in nice shape. The same goes for newspapers of historical significance - like dead elvis, man on moon, etc - worth something, but not much, because LOTS of people kept them. The things that will be worth lots are the things that we are wearing down or destroying now, but have some kind of beauty, appeal or utility. Things that we do not value highly. Display boxes and units from retail stores, maybe? Tapes and CD's? Plastic bottles?

 

What amuses me is the fact that most videogames from all eras cost more at launch than they're worth now, even without correcting for inflation.

[HatefulGravey]

Game play is why I collect, history is what I talk about when people ask about the collection. If I find a rare game that is also cheap I'll buy it, but I'm not running off to buy rare games because they are rare. I do understand people that will buy them because they are rare though. There is something about being able to say "I own 1 of the 25 or 30 of this item that are known to exist". Many of the rare games in Atari land have more copies then that out there, but the point stands for it's self.

 

The thing I am hooked on is boxes. The Atari 2600 is older then I am, atleast older then I could have enjoyed. I would have been an infant during the last part of its run. Having the boxes for even the most common games makes me happy because I can see what games looked like before I was born. There is also a certain rarity appeal to that though. Who keeps boxes? It couldn't have been many because I own many many Atari games, and maybe 20 in box.

[the 5th ghost]

History is a thing of the past.

 

 

 

 

But seriously...

 

My take on the discussion is this: I'm sure most of those collectors paying insane prices for obscure, sub-par Atari games are doing so in order to help preserve the OVERALL HISTORY of the Atari. In other words, even the crappiest games have some sort of historical significance. Without them, they'd be lost forever, and a part of Atari's history along with them.

 

We've learned to cherish these oddities.

[Godzilla]

video game collecting is the new kid on the block, give it time...

[fffff]

Was thinking today about how a few years ago the used game shop started randomly assigning super high values to Mega Man and the gold Zelda's and a few others. Perhaps an example of "history", some sort of popularity that made them more valuable? I personally thought it was rediculous. They definately weren't as rare and we have both of them and have had them since release.

[homerwannabee]

One thing with collecting atari - the common titles are Very common. Without looking up sales figures, I'd feel confident saying that there's one copy of defender, asteroids, combat and pac-man for each human that is alive or has ever lived.

 

 

My guess is that you are extremely off on this estimate. I would say they probably made around 10 to 15 million carts in total for Defender, Asteroids, Combat, and Pac-man. I would also venture to guess that over 90 percent of these games have been thrown out, reused for homebrews, and destroyed. So in actuality there are probably 1 to 1.5 million examples of these games floating around somewhere.

 

The problem is this. There is not that many collectors for the Atari 2600. Sure we have our fair share, but not enough to make up for supply. If there ever was an influx of Atari 2600 collectors than things will change.

[carmel_andrews]

I wish i were Bill Gates (or that Mr Buffet/Buffett), I'd buy out all the main 2600 collectors here of their collections....making me the world's only 2600 games collector)

 

I think the likes of wonder007 and his ilk are a credit to the atari scene but please....stop paying *bay prices for rares/proto's, your'e driving the rest of the people out of the main 2600 market

Edited February 16, 2011 by carmel_andrews

[bojay1997]

One thing with collecting atari - the common titles are Very common. Without looking up sales figures, I'd feel confident saying that there's one copy of defender, asteroids, combat and pac-man for each human that is alive or has ever lived.

 

 

My guess is that you are extremely off on this estimate. I would say they probably made around 10 to 15 million carts in total for Defender, Asteroids, Combat, and Pac-man. I would also venture to guess that over 90 percent of these games have been thrown out, reused for homebrews, and destroyed. So in actuality there are probably 1 to 1.5 million examples of these games floating around somewhere.

 

The problem is this. There is not that many collectors for the Atari 2600. Sure we have our fair share, but not enough to make up for supply. If there ever was an influx of Atari 2600 collectors than things will change.

 

Even if there were tens of thousands of 2600 collectors (which I don't believe there are and likely never will be), a million carts would more than fill their collections many times over. The reality is that like all mass produced items made from durable materials, these games will always be common and the outrageous prices for rarer items are being paid by a few people who are completists. Why should any of us hope for a change? Personally, I'm happy I can find everything I want or need for my collection at still fairly reasonable prices. I could care less if a few wealthy collectors are driving up prices of rare stuff I have no interest in owning.

[rob fulop]

1

Edited February 17, 2011 by rob fulop

[rob fulop]

 

 

Comics don't do this. Movie poster collectors don't do this. Baseball card collectors don't do this. Heck almost any other collecting industry does not do this. Yet we have zombified ourselves into thinking rarity, rarity, rarity, rarity, rarity. Nothing else matters. Not game play, not condition, not historical significance. No nothing. Just rarity, rarity, rarity.

Because "collecting" is not about what one has ... it is all about what one does NOT have. The items that a collector does NOT have drives that collector CRAZY ... they care not about the thousands of items in their collection that they already have .. it's the HOLE that fuels their compulsion/obsession.

 

So anything that is "rare", ie .. not many of that thing exist .. are obviously going to become items that collectors will value, by definition as there won't be enough of those rare items to go around to complete enough collections in the world. So they will pay a premium for such items, which is why those are the items that everybody in the collector community talks about.

Edited February 17, 2011 by rob fulop

[Godzilla]

for example, I froth madly over cubicolor, for I never found out about it until after it was long gone. At least I got in on okie dokie and the original numbered edtris'es etc (so I don't have to froth over those...)

 

I hope some kind soul will donate a cubicolor to the International Museum of Art in Games and Interactive Creations once I get it going... wife and volunteers are helping me with this. I had no idea it was so much work, it's like starting a full-fledged business but with added layers of complexity (non profit status and such...)

[accousticguitar]

Because "collecting" is not about what one has ... it is all about what one does NOT have. The items that a collector does NOT have drives that collector CRAZY ... they care not about the thousands of items in their collection that they already have .. it's the HOLE that fuels their compulsion/obsession.

I think you hit the nail on the head.