SUB HUNTER on C64, now ported to CPC... When A8 version?

[Heaven/TQA]

1 hour ago, Mclaneinc said:

I'd not reply to the troll or even quote him, he feeds off that...

 

But on a more interesting note, I'm loving the work on the game engine, most of its a bit too tech for me but its just fun to read and makes me want to try a bit of coding again. Nearest I got back then was a smooth scroll screen, a background and some awful sprites sat doing nothing on it....I liked it

 

Seeing it done properly is great...

That kind of code would qualify you to judge and overrule all by your knowledge and wisdom 

Edited September 5, 2019 by Heaven/TQA

[popmilo]

1 hour ago, emkay said:

 

How great is that ? He has no clue about what's inside the Atari. Forcing the wrong solution, as the Thread is about the game and not about narcissistic presentations.

Why don't you enlighten us one more time, how would you code it ?
What sort of mode, sprites would you use. Please be detailed if you can.
 

[Mclaneinc]

26 minutes ago, Heaven/TQA said:

That kind of code would qualify you to judge and overrule all by your knowledge and wisdom 

Lol...100% assembler and 95% rubbish is what I'd say of my code

 

Anyway, lets see more 'proper' code 

[emkay]

13 minutes ago, popmilo said:

Why don't you enlighten us one more time, how would you code it ?
What sort of mode, sprites would you use. Please be detailed if you can.
 

If I'd repeat "one more time" you think someone would read it "then" ?

I did explain it clearly enough. 

The main point is to save as much CPU cycles as possible for the game itself. 

dmsc showed that "Parallax Scrolling" plus a lot moving objects is possible without using the hardware scrolling. Wich is particular great when using Character Mode. 

[rensoup]

6 hours ago, solo/ng said:

In his 35+ history "codng" all he did is an image with a scroll:

https://demozoo.org/sceners/35955/

 

Well I see some good progression there ?

[rensoup]

3 hours ago, Heaven/TQA said:

How much RAM is left in those examples btw?

 

and how many cycles spend on the preparation per frame?

I'd guess dmsc has plenty of RAM left.

 

Me, I've got 255x152 screen lines containing a double frame buffer of 88x152 + the background pic for restore. The occupied ratio is about 219/255. So I've got 152 slices of 36 bytes unused and not much else ?

 

Preparing the frame doesn't cost a lot in my case. Sprites take up most of the time

[+Stephen]

6 hours ago, solo/ng said:

In his 35+ history "codng" all he did is an image with a scroll:

https://demozoo.org/sceners/35955/

 

I have to say its quite technological achievement. All other 8-bit platforms cant keep up and envy us.

 

Generally it can be two ways: he is a persisent troll or mentally ill person.

 

pure lamer - thats for sure.

 

just ignore him, its the best you can do.

Don't forget that utterly badass BASIC demo of a graphics 2 screen with some random characters.  Utterly stunning, sorry I can't be arsed to waste my time looking for such a mind bending example of A8 coding prowess.

[rensoup]

6 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Don't forget that utterly badass BASIC demo of a graphics 2 screen with some random characters.  Utterly stunning, sorry I can't be arsed to waste my time looking for such a mind bending example of A8 coding prowess.

Please don't, let's not derail the thread too much...

[rensoup]

Well, I've been sitting on that one for a bit...

 

 

The previous update didn't take into account scrolling and that didn't take too long to fix (mostly reused my code from the mode4 version). I was at 12 sprites and lost about half a sprite for that... not too bad.

 

Now the splitting... that turned out to be a little more complicated than I thought and a lot more costly. The setup code now has to

 

1. compute the current slice (it can split any sprite up to 32 pixel high into as many slices as it crosses parallaxes)

2. figure out which of the 4 precompiled sprites to use

3. modify the precompiled sprite code to return at the end of the slice (add an RTS)

4. jump to the beginning of the slice

5. restore the precompiled code (remove the RTS)

6. save slice info for clear routine

 

And again for the next slice.

 

The cost for that (and the restore routine now being called up to twice as much): 3 sprites!!

 

I even removed one of the parallax zones because it was so thin (8 lines) that the subs ended up crossing 3 zones.

 

So while 8 sprites is not bad (and I still have the PMGs but they will be used for coloring), it's not as good as I hoped again (10 would have been good).

 

I have an idea to do the restoring slightly differently, I might try that if I can be bothered and see if I get some CPU back.

 

btw you can press TAB to view the CPU time and how wildly it varies when sprites cross a parallax zone.

 

subh2_190905.obx

[+Stephen]

That's one hell of an impressive bit of code there.

[Faicuai]

2 hours ago, rensoup said:

Well, I've been sitting on that one for a bit...

 

 

The previous update didn't take into account scrolling and that didn't take too long to fix (mostly reused my code from the mode4 version). I was at 12 sprites and lost about half a sprite for that... not too bad.

 

Now the splitting... that turned out to be a little more complicated than I thought and a lot more costly. The setup code now has to

 

1. compute the current slice (it can split any sprite up to 32 pixel high into as many slices as it crosses parallaxes)

2. figure out which of the 4 precompiled sprites to use

3. modify the precompiled sprite code to return at the end of the slice (add an RTS)

4. jump to the beginning of the slice

5. restore the precompiled code (remove the RTS)

6. save slice info for clear routine

 

And again for the next slice.

 

The cost for that (and the restore routine now being called up to twice as much): 3 sprites!!

 

I even removed one of the parallax zones because it was so thin (8 lines) that the subs ended up crossing 3 zones.

 

So while 8 sprites is not bad (and I still have the PMGs but they will be used for coloring), it's not as good as I hoped again (10 would have been good).

 

I have an idea to do the restoring slightly differently, I might try that if I can be bothered and see if I get some CPU back.

 

btw you can press TAB to view the CPU time and how wildly it varies when sprites cross a parallax zone.

 

subh2_190905.obx 17.96 kB · 14 downloads

 

FYI, this version consistently CRASHES on real HW, both Ultimate and Incognito, when attempting to load via [SIDE-Loader] or [SIO-to-USB + RespeQt]. Mysteriously, it does NOT crash on Altirra (!?) Also, ALL prior versions seemed to work fine on real HW, when loaded with any of the above mechanisms.

 

(FYI I like the parallax & horizon-structure optimizations on this last one better, it looks a lot less motion-sickness inducing, on a more cohesive screen-play overall). 8 sprites seems quite enough for me, though.

 

 

Edited September 6, 2019 by Faicuai

[TheNameOfTheGame]

Very impressive! I agree with Faicuai with 8 soft sprites seems fine (but I know you probably are going to try to push it further and that's awesome).

Edited September 6, 2019 by TheNameOfTheGame

[rensoup]

3 hours ago, Faicuai said:

 

FYI, this version consistently CRASHES on real HW, both Ultimate and Incognito, when attempting to load via [SIDE-Loader] or [SIO-to-USB + RespeQt]. Mysteriously, it does NOT crash on Altirra (!?) Also, ALL prior versions seemed to work fine on real HW, when loaded with any of the above mechanisms.

 

(FYI I like the parallax & horizon-structure optimizations on this last one better, it looks a lot less motion-sickness inducing, on a more cohesive screen-play overall). 8 sprites seems quite enough for me, though.

 

 

 

of course it does, it's org at $800 which is too low... could you try Wrathchild's trick and simply compress it with exomizer and try again ?

 

Wait I didn't read that properly... you said all other versions worked fine ? or just the one I made for skr which was org at $1000 ?

Edited September 6, 2019 by rensoup
didn't read properly

[rensoup]

1 hour ago, TheNameOfTheGame said:

Very impressive! I agree with Faicuai with 8 soft sprites seems fine (but I know you probably are going to try to push it further and that's awesome).

I already tried ? that's why I was sitting on this one... I just gave it one last shot which looked a bit more promising but couldn't get it to work properly...

 

Well on to PMGs!

[Faicuai]

39 minutes ago, rensoup said:

 

of course it does, it's org at $800 which is too low... could you try Wrathchild's trick and simply compress it with exomizer and try again ?

 

Wait I didn't read that properly... you said all other versions worked fine ? or just the one I made for skr which was org at $1000 ?

Trying to clarify (and with some updates):

1. The last version you posted DOES NOT work on real HW (when attempting to load with SIDE-Loader or RespeQt FAST "EXE" loader). 
2. When disabling RespeQt "high-speed" feature of EXE loader, it DOES load and run correctly on the computer / host.
3. ALL of the prior versions I tested loaded without problems either through SIDE-Loader or RespeQt high-speed .XEX loader.

You may need to raise a bit the starting load address of this last demo version, if possible.

 

BTW, this little demo is an EXCELLENT test for any Video Processor / De-interlacer / Line-doubler, as it puts to test the processor's engine ability to handle multiple sections of the screen moving at differential scrolling speeds (parallax-bands), which should ALL render as sharp as possible, regardless of the speed at which any particular band maybe moving. NICE (!!!)

[_The Doctor__]

perhaps using an atr with a gamedos loader etc will work in place conjunction with those other devices.

 

I just loaded the demo with APE on a NTSC 130XE with MIO attached, APEloader didn't have an issue.

 

tab doesn't show me anything but an intermittant ghostly transparent pulsing overlay at the top portion of the screen though...

Edited September 6, 2019 by _The Doctor__

[_The Doctor__]

Black Box Ultra Speed active with APE loader worked just fine at high speed.

might I add you get nine subs clearly on the screen sometimes which is pretty cool.

Edited September 6, 2019 by _The Doctor__

[rensoup]

8 hours ago, Faicuai said:

Trying to clarify (and with some updates):

1. The last version you posted DOES NOT work on real HW (when attempting to load with SIDE-Loader or RespeQt FAST "EXE" loader). 
2. When disabling RespeQt "high-speed" feature of EXE loader, it DOES load and run correctly on the computer / host.
3. ALL of the prior versions I tested loaded without problems either through SIDE-Loader or RespeQt high-speed .XEX loader.

You may need to raise a bit the starting load address of this last demo version, if possible.

 

BTW, this little demo is an EXCELLENT test for any Video Processor / De-interlacer / Line-doubler, as it puts to test the processor's engine ability to handle multiple sections of the screen moving at differential scrolling speeds (parallax-bands), which should ALL render as sharp as possible, regardless of the speed at which any particular band maybe moving. NICE (!!!)

 

I'll upload some more tests tonight, it's only meant to show off your atari's capabilities but glad it serves a practical purpose too ?

 

3 hours ago, _The Doctor__ said:

perhaps using an atr with a gamedos loader etc will work in place conjunction with those other devices.

 

I just loaded the demo with APE on a NTSC 130XE with MIO attached, APEloader didn't have an issue.

 

tab doesn't show me anything but an intermittant ghostly transparent pulsing overlay at the top portion of the screen though...

 

my ultra simple keyboard code works in Altirra, so I doubt the emulator has a bug, I'm going to guess you're running in NTSC ?

 

3 hours ago, _The Doctor__ said:

Black Box Ultra Speed active with APE loader worked just fine at high speed.

might I add you get nine subs clearly on the screen sometimes which is pretty cool.

 

As much as I'd like that I think it's an optical illusion ?  (or TV post processing or CRT persistance or something)

 

[emkay]

18 hours ago, Stephen said:

Don't forget that utterly badass BASIC demo of a graphics 2 screen with some random characters.  Utterly stunning, sorry I can't be arsed to waste my time looking for such a mind bending example of A8 coding prowess.

 

What have you exactly done ON the Atari that allows you to judge over anything?

The point within that Basic Demo you might never understand , because you seem to miss to know how software works, particular if you create games .

As long as people like you post here, things really won't get done, and take your Friend "McLainInc" with you, if you allow further development on the Atari.  

[+Stephen]

57 minutes ago, emkay said:

 

What have you exactly done ON the Atari that allows you to judge over anything?

The point within that Basic Demo you might never understand , because you seem to miss to know how software works, particular if you create games .

As long as people like you post here, things really won't get done, and take your Friend "McLainInc" with you, if you allow further development on the Atari.  

Why is it, that you can realize the argument that "what I have I done to be qualified to judge", yet you cannot see this in yourself?  This is a clear representation of the "mental illness" you seem to suffer from.  At least you finally get my point, and what countless others have tried to point out to you.  Five years ago I tried to be nice.  After non stop repetitiveness from you, my patience (and it seems many others) has worn out so I am no longer nice about it.

 

One other MAIN point. I am not the one who constantly puts down work by others, tells them how to do things, tells them what will and will not work.  You are also obviously blind to this fact.  There is no realization of self with you and your nasty behaviour at this place.  My only conclusion, is you are either trolling people, or you do have a mental illness of some sort.

[Lastic]

16 hours ago, rensoup said:

 

of course it does, it's org at $800 which is too low... could you try Wrathchild's trick and simply compress it with exomizer and try again ?

 

Wait I didn't read that properly... you said all other versions worked fine ? or just the one I made for skr which was org at $1000 ?

For me on a PAL 130XE with either AVG Cart or SIO2SD only the version you made for skr worked, this latest version (https://atariage.com/forums/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=660532) doesn't.

 

It does work on Altirra.

Edited September 6, 2019 by Lastic
PAL

[_The Doctor__]

once it loads it no longer allows the black box to get back in the  bb's menu area again, that's unexpected.

 

Yes my post states 'NTSC 130XE", the program is rock sold but what i suspect would be an added status line or overlay is the only part that fails when select the cpu key... it doesn't bother the speed or anything else... I suspect you will get rid of this in favor of program space and needed cycles for the rest of the game logic etc. at some point anyway.

 

the subs move smoothly and quickly by the way

 

when you have 9 subs on the screen it is when the demo fades in the ninth sub just before/as the program then decide to fade another out.

 

Edited September 6, 2019 by _The Doctor__

[emkay]

3 hours ago, Stephen said:

Why is it, that you can realize the argument that "what I have I done to be qualified to judge", yet you cannot see this in yourself?  This is a clear representation of the "mental illness" you seem to suffer from.  At least you finally get my point, and what countless others have tried to point out to you.  Five years ago I tried to be nice.  After non stop repetitiveness from you, my patience (and it seems many others) has worn out so I am no longer nice about it.

 

One other MAIN point. I am not the one who constantly puts down work by others, tells them how to do things, tells them what will and will not work.  You are also obviously blind to this fact.  There is no realization of self with you and your nasty behaviour at this place.  My only conclusion, is you are either trolling people, or you do have a mental illness of some sort.

You ARE actually a 100% Troll. 

As it seems, you don't have done anything. But you always put that toward me . 

Really funny. Mental Illness ?  If people like you wouldn't take part in those threads, other people wouldn't get angry by a legal discussion. It's always this "background  acting" with negative influence by people who don't really have anything to say.

Threads really get derailed , if people like YOU come into the round. Pushing their attitude in , because they have an attitude... just an attitude, nothing more.  

 

This is what makes MY argumentations looking silly. Not just mine. You guys already dissipated other Atari Users.

You only don't dissipate me, because I have my own cause for pushing things for the Atari. There is no need for me to kiss your self beloved "imaginations".    

[rensoup]

3 hours ago, Lastic said:

For me on a PAL 130XE with either AVG Cart or SIO2SD only the version you made for skr worked, this latest version (https://atariage.com/forums/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=660532) doesn't.

 

It does work on Altirra.

 

I've attached 2 versions:

 

_c00 is org at $c00... I don't know if that high enough.

 

_800 is org at $800 which we already know doesn't work BUT it's exomized so in theory it should work ( tip mentioned by Wrathchild)

 

Could you test both ?

 

2 hours ago, _The Doctor__ said:

once it loads it no longer allows the black box to get back in the  bb's menu area again, that's unexpected.

 

 

I have no idea how the blackbox works... do you press reset to get back to the menu ?

 

Quote

Yes my post states 'NTSC 130XE", the program is rock sold but what i suspect would be an added status line or overlay is the only part that fails when select the cpu key... it doesn't bother the speed or anything else... I suspect you will get rid of this in favor of program space and needed cycles for the rest of the game logic etc. at some point anyway.

 

 

Ok so the problem with NTSC is that it goes over a frame so you only see the bar at the top.

 

Btw you are watching it at 30HZ, so it's not as smooth as it should be.

 

Quote

the subs move smoothly and quickly by the way

 

when you have 9 subs on the screen it is when the demo fades in the ninth sub just before/as the program then decide to fade another out.

 

So I've added a key for you NTSC fellas: space bar to change the sub count .Keep pressing to increase it up to 8. Now you'll be able to see how smooth it really is.

 

subh2_c00.obx subh2_800exo.obx

[Lastic]

7 hours ago, rensoup said:

 

I've attached 2 versions:

 

_c00 is org at $c00... I don't know if that high enough.

 

_800 is org at $800 which we already know doesn't work BUT it's exomized so in theory it should work ( tip mentioned by Wrathchild)

 

Could you test both ?

 

subh2_c00.obx 17.21 kB · 8 downloads subh2_800exo.obx 9.24 kB · 5 downloads

Tested both on PAL 130XE on AVG Cart and SIO2SD, worked perfectly except for one strange artifact I didn't notice in the previous version. a green sub ?

 

 

Thanks for giving us the chance to follow your project on REAL hardware also.