Heaven/TQA Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 teh multiplex can be handled more easily as you would use bitmap mode which makes stuff more simple as the DMA scheme is predictable more than charbased one and can be used for Starray-like parallax. I still think that the RAM usage will not be too heavy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym00 Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 (edited) I simply wanted to take advantage of something the A8 can do very nicely.. Aha, OK, but this will of course only work nicely when you don't make use of software sprites. But I assume you're talking in the graphics-mode context, whereas I'm more thinking in the font-mode context (which might have some benefits when integrating swsprites). Taking Heaven's comment into account: Only use background gfx for scrolling parts. Use PMs for the rest. I can see it working with only PMs, but then again I don't like the restrictions that come with that colour wise, and in a straight 1:1 conversion I think there's too many per line, but that's workable around.. But if I'm honest, I was actually finding myself thinking more of the lines along Darius Gaiden (which I think has some of the nicest parallax effect backgrounds) and by finding a good solution for sprites and things over this kind of background you'd crack that too Edited February 22, 2011 by andym00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Darius? ujujuj... have fun implementing it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym00 Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Darius? ujujuj... have fun implementing it... Isn't that what it's all about ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 yeah. sure, but scanline based Parallax plus parallax layer on top... that will be tricky... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sack-c0s Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 ...the 6581 filters can vary wildly over every machine.... But, does it really depend on the SID 6581 chips themselves? Or is it a matter of choosing the right capacitors? Remember, the SID filter is a pair of external RC-circuits, IIRC. Me for example, I have the following 6581s (see picture below). Do these chips themselves have different filter effects? (by the way, sorry for off-topic stuff) I think it's pretty much down to R/C tolerance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym00 Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 yeah. sure, but scanline based Parallax plus parallax layer on top... that will be tricky... Hence me wanting to find out how fast I can blit to the screen taking into account each lines different positions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted February 22, 2011 Author Share Posted February 22, 2011 I can see it working with only PMs, but then again I don't like the restrictions that come with that colour wise, and in a straight 1:1 conversion I think there's too many per line, but that's workable around.. Hi, greets to all. Good to see people thinking and discussing ways of getting this into A8... that's a begining FIRST: -> Scrollings and all that stuffs seems what I have in mind and yes, C64 is using exactly a maximum of four colours maximum each Line. It's for sure A8 IMAP MODE the right one to choose. More, if you going into A8 BitMap you get more with less if you're going into SoftSprites: 3bytes+1shifting wide but no need for vertical shifting (if we were in CharMore) ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________ SECOND: -> If you get Scrollings like C64 I don't see some Gfxs. overlaying top/other scrolling... But you can also do that... ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________ THIRD: -> C64 Sprites: they are 12pixels wide, but some are 10or11... Translate this into just 2PMs01Multicolour A8 will be 10pixels maximum... See all the different Creature and SubMarine doesn't seem doable. Just Hardware Sprites and you'll have only two 10pixels wide each Line, more flicker (and here more, are two or three more with other colours and shapes) -> The different Sprites by Line: ---------1.)-Normally two Enemys (Normal size) but harder Levels have three. ---------2.)-Large Sharks are 24pixels wide and two C64 sprites: -------------2.a.)-One Shark by Line and two mall Sharks crossing its Line -------------2.b.)-two Sharks by Line crossing eachother and no small Sharks on their Line. --------3.)-Enemys (two or three) more our 12pixels Submarine more 8pixel Horizontal shooting --------4.)The Enemys (two or three) more the "down" Bomb (OR) more the Man to rescue at the Ground -> Maximum C64 Sprites by Line: --------1.)-Submarine+shooting+3Enemys = FIVE --------2.)-SubMarine+shooting+2Sharks = SIX --------3.)-Submarine+shooting+1Shark+1small Shark = FIVE -> Maximum C64 Sprites o Screen: Submarine+shooting+Down Bomb+Man to rescue+4 attacking waves Lines(4x3Enemys)= SIXTEEN ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________ MY SOLUTION: -> BitMap Mode 4colours. -> I count cycles of Softsprites maximum on Screen and it see doable. (the 4 Lines attacking waves are a clean screen with just DLIs. many of the times, this ways just 16cycles BitMap Masking instead of normal AND/OR 21cycles). -> All the Levels different Scrolls colours can be A8 DLIb and get the colours to fit in PRIOR0 with 1PM each Enemy. Here is what I intend to show on my Proposal on the next days Greets. José Pereira. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted February 22, 2011 Author Share Posted February 22, 2011 I can see it working with only PMs, but then again I don't like the restrictions that come with that colour wise, and in a straight 1:1 conversion I think there's too many per line, but that's workable around.. Hi, greets to all. Good to see people thinking and discussing ways of getting this into A8... that's a begining FIRST: -> Scrollings and all that stuffs seems what I have in mind and yes, C64 is using exactly a maximum of four colours maximum each Line. It's for sure A8 BITMAP MODE the right one to choose. More, if you going into A8 BitMap you get more with less if you're going into SoftSprites: 3bytes+1shifting wide but no need for vertical shifting (if we were in CharMore) ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________ SECOND: -> If you get Scrollings like C64 I don't see some Gfxs. overlaying top/other scrolling... But you can also do that... ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________ THIRD: -> C64 Sprites: they are 12pixels wide, but some are 10or11... Translate this into just 2PMs01Multicolour A8 will be 10pixels maximum... See all the different Creature and SubMarine doesn't seem doable. Just Hardware Sprites and you'll have only two 10pixels wide each Line, more flicker (and here more, are two or three more with other colours and shapes) -> The different C64 Sprites by Line: ---------1.)-Normally two Enemys (Normal size) but harder Levels have three. ---------2.)-Large Sharks are 24pixels wide and two C64 sprites: -------------2.a.)-One Shark by Line and two mall Sharks crossing its Line -------------2.b.)-two Sharks by Line crossing eachother and no small Sharks on their Line. --------3.)-Enemys (two or three) more our 12pixels Submarine more 8pixel Horizontal shooting --------4.)The Enemys (two or three) more the "down" Bomb (OR) more the Man to rescue at the Ground -> Maximum C64 Sprites by Line: --------1.)-Submarine+shooting+3Enemys = FIVE --------2.)-SubMarine+shooting+2Sharks = SIX --------3.)-Submarine+shooting+1Shark+1small Shark = FIVE -> Maximum C64 Sprites o Screen: Submarine+shooting+Down Bomb+Man to rescue+4 attacking waves Lines(4x3Enemys)= SIXTEEN ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________ MY SOLUTION: -> BitMap Mode 4colours. -> I count cycles of Softsprites maximum on Screen and it see doable. (the 4 Lines attacking waves are a clean screen with just Backgr. colour register DLIs. many of the times, this ways just 16cycles BitMap Masking instead of normal AND/OR 21cycles). -> All the Levels different Scrolls colours can be A8 DLIb and get the colours to fit in PRIOR0 with 1PM each Enemy. Here is what I intend to show on my Proposal on the next days Greets. José Pereira. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteD Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 ...the 6581 filters can vary wildly over every machine.... But, does it really depend on the SID 6581 chips themselves? Or is it a matter of choosing the right capacitors? Remember, the SID filter is a pair of external RC-circuits, IIRC. Me for example, I have the following 6581s (see picture below). Do these chips themselves have different filter effects? (by the way, sorry for off-topic stuff) I think it's pretty much down to R/C tolerance Nope As I said on the previous page, part of the filter is on the chip and while it's sometimes just manufacturing differences (they changed the silicon used over time etc) I think there was also some difference to the die design. The chips Analmux has for eg are seemingly all R3 apart from the single one labeled R4. You can tell by the dates (the 4 digit number is week/year) and the either 6581, 6581 R3 or 6581 CBM all mean R3. If it was as simple as matching the external components then people would be doing that and I don't think I've ever heard of that happening.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Jose... are the sprites multiplexed on c64? or how many enemy sprites are on screen per frame and how many bullets? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted February 22, 2011 Author Share Posted February 22, 2011 Jose... are the sprites multiplexed on c64? or how many enemy sprites are on screen per frame and how many bullets? C64=8Sprites This game use: -> Constant: 2sprites: Submarine+Shoot -> More/other by Line: 3normal size Enemys OR 4Sprites(2+2Sprites) as 2large Sharks OR 2normal size Enemy and 2(1large Shark) -> Others two more gives you eight (seems soo): 1 down Bomb and one man to rescue (win some Levels) It Multiplexexes the 3or4 by Line Sprites of the Enemys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted February 22, 2011 Author Share Posted February 22, 2011 Jose... are the sprites multiplexed on c64? or how many enemy sprites are on screen per frame and how many bullets? It Multiplexexes the 3or4 by Line Sprites of the Enemys. Submarine+Shoot+Man = three sprites Enemys: Three by Line normal size Maximum (and maximum Multiplex/different ibn four Lines) OR Enemys: 2Sharks=4sprites by Line (and maximum multiplex/different two Lines: 1st Line: 2Large Sharks=four sprites 2nd/other Lines: 2or3 Small sharks=2or3 sprites Other (one Sprite: Down shooting/Bomb: never the same Line as our sub (could use same PM as our Sub, like probably it is done by MaPa in Ocean Detox) Greets. José Pereira. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 I will play the game now... I need to see it on my own... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 ok... the c64 parallax is a joke... at least on the c64... 3 big zones splittet by flickering rasters at least while playing the demo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 can someone rip the font for me for level 1? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 ok... Jose, are you sure that there are more than 8 sprites on screen at once? I played it to level 3 and I still do not see any major issue... esp. level 2 can be done completly with soft sprites as the background are rasters... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted February 23, 2011 Author Share Posted February 23, 2011 ok... Jose, are you sure that there are more than 8 sprites on screen at once? I played it to level 3 and I still do not see any major issue... esp. level 2 can be done completly with soft sprites as the background are rasters... Hi, just see in the 1st Page of this thread, my second Post send you to all the game C64 version W.I.P. done by the author. You have all you need there But here are C64 version screens, Level by Level screens: LEVEL1: LEVEL2: LEVEL3: LEVEL4: LEVEL5: LEVEL6: LEVEL7: LEVEL8: LEVEL9: LEVEL10: END LEVEL: I'll update and explain some things about each one lately (no Time by now...) Greetings. José Pereira. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted February 23, 2011 Author Share Posted February 23, 2011 (edited) Finally get all Sprites shapes and Levels colours to get into the A8 DLIs./PRIOR0. Hope to start a daily "W.I.P." of the Gfxs.&Sprites in the next day(s) . Just this simple one here, Level Two: This Level could be Enemy Submarines as just SoftSprites, but they are in other Levels where they go above the backgr. Gfxs. Like this I must have them, shapes and PMs. like if they were above or not Gfxs. And you could have more by Line, no problem (three like in C64). ALL THE GAME: -> In BitMap Mode 4colours. -> Like this no shifting vertical (less cycles spend...) ON LEVEL TWO: All the Screen are just Backgr. colour register, this way you'll have: -> The Enemy Submarines are just scrolling Gfxs. (not SoftSprites) as they move constant speed. -> The only SoftSprites here, on Level Two, are: Our Submarine, Shooting and Bomb. -> Better is that on this empty/DLI Lines are SoftSprites above (00) Backgr. colour register and 16cycles BitmapMasking instead of the normally 21cycles. OTHER LEVELS: -> BitMap Mode and PRIOR0. -> Instead of C64 I can have our submarine same colours for all the Levels -> And yes, mostly of the Enemys would have, like you see in here on the Enemy Submarines, different ones with different colours, even if more than one on the same Line. (it's just a question of right choose of the Backgrounds Gfxs. and the PRIOR0 it's a piece of cake", and I have the right colours for all the different Levels right away ) You're work in the DLIs./Parallax it's no problem, just do and have it in a way to get the SoftSprites above... (that we could discuss better if any of you is interested...) Greetings to all. José Pereira. Edited February 23, 2011 by José Pereira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted February 23, 2011 Author Share Posted February 23, 2011 Especially the music in this video sounds awesome. I'm a bit surprised. Can I be sure this is really SID? Or, maybe 1 or 2 digivoices are used here? Or 200 Hz updates? Or stereo SID? No digivoices, stereo or 200 Hz update used. It's from this demo: Centric Preview OK, thanks for the link. I tested it with the Vice emulator. I turned SID-filters off, and made a small recording of the SID instrument playing in the opening of the tune. I wonder how SID does this type of waveform: - Did they use a mixed waveform? F.e. noise&pulse or noise@triangle or pulse@triangle? - Did they use some kind of 2-voice effect? F.e. one syncs the other - Possibly a combination of the first two options? Oh, here's the recording, by the way: The C64 Music at YouTube, see if it helps in anything: Greets. José Pereira. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteD Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 As far as I can tell that music (Centric Preview) is running off timer and calls the routine twice per frame so it's 100hz update. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted February 24, 2011 Author Share Posted February 24, 2011 (edited) A8 colour POWER!... and something more Just open a Blog, but it is empty, later on I'll re-direct you into there Greets. José Pereira. Edited February 24, 2011 by José Pereira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted February 24, 2011 Author Share Posted February 24, 2011 (edited) level2_started_4colours_5.xex Here is the File of this screen. Would like to ask if someone could get this into a real Machine and post here how it looks... Thanks. José Pereira. P.s.- Just a small contest: Have in account A8 colour clock movement of all the Sprites: "Do you think that 'down' Bomb will do a collision with any of the bottom approaching Enemy Submarine and 'KABOOM! it !!!!!......?" Answers on a Postcard!... Edited February 24, 2011 by José Pereira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted February 24, 2011 Author Share Posted February 24, 2011 Story and W.I.P. of C64 version Probably what anyone interested want to know... Was to say this many days ago but tatally forgot: In this W.I.P. if you want to go into Page4 you'll get an Error if you're using 'Internet Explorer' or just don't do nothing if you're into 'Firefox'... To solve this just get yourself into Page5. Here you can click on Page4 and it works. Greets. José Pereira. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted February 25, 2011 Author Share Posted February 25, 2011 A8 colour POWER!... and something more Just open a Blog, but it is empty, later on I'll re-direct you into there Greets. José Pereira. Hi guys. On this screen of Level2 with all that Lines DLIs./Rainbows Blues of the Playing Area they are just DLIs. Background register. I would like people intrested in just get other DLIs. colours on this Lines/Rainbows, please!... level2_looking.zip Thanks. José Pereira. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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