New Run of the Black Box by CSS

[IndusGT]

All the improvements we have made to the MIO so far have been firmware based. And WARERAT is the guy who did it. Not me. This firmware works on the original MIO, as well as the reproduction units I build. Its now much faster than the black box, it supports 512 byte sectors, and it will do 32bit LBA which lets you use extremely large phyisical drives.

 

(and we are working on a major hardware/firmware upgrade board for the MIO that will blow the black box away..)

 

That's interesting, would that be an external or internal board? when will that become available? Will it be as fast as KMK/JŻ IDE and others of its type?

 

Is it feasible to make a greater than 1 MB RAM disk in the MIO?

 

Hate to derail my own thread but...

Edited April 1, 2011 by IndusGT

[themrfreeze]

OMG -- the cable ties to anchor the floppy board down to the BB! I'd forgotten about them, and there's the insulation sheet (I guess that's what it is) glued on with about a half-tube of silicone on top of the FB. OK, slight exageration -- it was only a 1/4 tube! One of mine was "clean" and one was covered like the pic.

 

Holy cow, that picture brought back memories. The one in the pic is a *very* early Floppy Board...the first batches we built had the cable ties because (IIRC) the nylon standoffs we sourced ended up being too short and caused the boards to bend. The insulation sheet was put on there because we were a little concerned about people touching the contacts on the board and frying something. I forget at what point we stopped putting them on.

 

Those early ones should also have a serial number on them (a thin white sticker with the serial number printed by a dot matrix printer, if I remember correctly). I don't remember exactly how I coded it, but IIRC, it includes the batch number and date of manufacture.

[pixelmischief]

I'm in. I used to have one and I really liked it.

[IndusGT]

I'm in. I used to have one and I really liked it.

 

Great, hope Bob is reading this...

[IndusGT]

Anyone else interested or should I start tallying up the numbers?

[MEtalGuy66]

All the improvements we have made to the MIO so far have been firmware based. And WARERAT is the guy who did it. Not me. This firmware works on the original MIO, as well as the reproduction units I build. Its now much faster than the black box, it supports 512 byte sectors, and it will do 32bit LBA which lets you use extremely large phyisical drives.

 

(and we are working on a major hardware/firmware upgrade board for the MIO that will blow the black box away..)

 

That's interesting, would that be an external or internal board? when will that become available? Will it be as fast as KMK/JŻ IDE and others of its type?

 

Is it feasible to make a greater than 1 MB RAM disk in the MIO?

 

Hate to derail my own thread but...

 

The MIO is already faster than the KMK/JZ/IDEa when using 512byte sectors, using Warerat's firmware.

 

It is going to be an internal board that will work in any MIO (old or new), firmware will be reflashable from the atari. I'm not going to publicly discuss the features of this upgrade until the board is ready for production. We are still in the prototype stages.

 

Yes, I have had a 16meg MIO for several years now. Theres no firmware support for this at this time, but since the reproduction MIO uses a SIMM socket, its a pretty trivial matter to add 4 dram adress lines..

[IndusGT]

All the improvements we have made to the MIO so far have been firmware based. And WARERAT is the guy who did it. Not me. This firmware works on the original MIO, as well as the reproduction units I build. Its now much faster than the black box, it supports 512 byte sectors, and it will do 32bit LBA which lets you use extremely large phyisical drives.

 

(and we are working on a major hardware/firmware upgrade board for the MIO that will blow the black box away..)

 

That's interesting, would that be an external or internal board? when will that become available? Will it be as fast as KMK/JŻ IDE and others of its type?

 

Is it feasible to make a greater than 1 MB RAM disk in the MIO?

 

Hate to derail my own thread but...

 

The MIO is already faster than the KMK/JZ/IDEa when using 512byte sectors, using Warerat's firmware.

 

It is going to be an internal board that will work in any MIO (old or new), firmware will be reflashable from the atari. I'm not going to publicly discuss the features of this upgrade until the board is ready for production. We are still in the prototype stages.

 

Yes, I have had a 16meg MIO for several years now. Theres no firmware support for this at this time, but since the reproduction MIO uses a SIMM socket, its a pretty trivial matter to add 4 dram adress lines..

 

Ok thanks, The one great thing about the MIO is that fast ramdisk, however being that it takes 1 drive number it would be great if it could be a little bigger say 4 MB where you can keep you most commonly used programs ready to go while your computer is off

[Mathy]

Hello IndusGT

 

Anyone else interested or should I start tallying up the numbers?

 

What's the hurry? We've waited for two decades (rough estimate) and now you give us two days to give you an answer?

 

sincerely

 

Mathy

[IndusGT]

Hello IndusGT

 

Anyone else interested or should I start tallying up the numbers?

 

What's the hurry? We've waited for two decades (rough estimate) and now you give us two days to give you an answer?

 

sincerely

 

Mathy

 

 

Hehehe, well said, you're right, there's no hurry, we can surely wait a little longer, hopefully we'll get more takers...

[Defender II]

It needs a design update BADLY, and he needs to recover the source for the firmware.. otherwise, its pretty much a dead-end project.

 

As far as the floppyboard goes, it's not MUCH faster than ultraspeed IO.. in fact, its considerably slower that Hias's 12x ultraspeed SIO.. Also, its not very compatable with non-dos (custom sector loading and copy protected) software, and the support for HD floppy drives is "shakey at best." It made alot of sense for a means of hardisk backup (using higher density floppies), before flash media was so cheap/common.

 

I own a black box, "fully loaded".. Floppyboard, 64k SRAM, parity upgrade, latest firmware.. Yeah it's almost 20 years old.. Am I worried about it deteriorating with time? no.. Every component on it is still commonly available and relatively easy to change.

 

If a new one was made, I would make several reccomendations:

 

1) change the board layout so it isnt shaped like a Giant "T" (preferably, design it to a form factor that fits a commonly available enclosure)

2) put a layout for REAL DB9/DB25 parallel and serial ports on the board, rather than card edges that require custom adapters..

3) come up with a MUCH BETTER mounting/mating solution/scheme for the Floppyboard.

4) correct the board layout for the largest/latest (64k) firmware and 64k of SRAM, so you dont have to add jumper wires, etc..

5) remote mount the switches & buttons, so you can put the thing in a case. (the flimsy shrink-formed plastic case that CSS offered was a waste of money)

6) as I said before, recover the source for the firmware. It needs an update really bad. The SCSI handler is very slow, and could be updated to better support alot of more modern device configurations.

 

I like your update ideas. They would really make the CSS Black Box compete for top of the line again. Without a case they are overly exposed to dust and accidental damage.

 

Does Bob have any plans to update it or just produce another run of the previous design with the most current firmware, RAM, and floppy boards?

Will a case be available?

What price range is it expected to be?

 

Thanks for looking into this.

I really respect the work he did producing the original and look forward to new runs and/or products.

[IndusGT]

It needs a design update BADLY, and he needs to recover the source for the firmware.. otherwise, its pretty much a dead-end project.

 

As far as the floppyboard goes, it's not MUCH faster than ultraspeed IO.. in fact, its considerably slower that Hias's 12x ultraspeed SIO.. Also, its not very compatable with non-dos (custom sector loading and copy protected) software, and the support for HD floppy drives is "shakey at best." It made alot of sense for a means of hardisk backup (using higher density floppies), before flash media was so cheap/common.

 

I own a black box, "fully loaded".. Floppyboard, 64k SRAM, parity upgrade, latest firmware.. Yeah it's almost 20 years old.. Am I worried about it deteriorating with time? no.. Every component on it is still commonly available and relatively easy to change.

 

If a new one was made, I would make several reccomendations:

 

1) change the board layout so it isnt shaped like a Giant "T" (preferably, design it to a form factor that fits a commonly available enclosure)

2) put a layout for REAL DB9/DB25 parallel and serial ports on the board, rather than card edges that require custom adapters..

3) come up with a MUCH BETTER mounting/mating solution/scheme for the Floppyboard.

4) correct the board layout for the largest/latest (64k) firmware and 64k of SRAM, so you dont have to add jumper wires, etc..

5) remote mount the switches & buttons, so you can put the thing in a case. (the flimsy shrink-formed plastic case that CSS offered was a waste of money)

6) as I said before, recover the source for the firmware. It needs an update really bad. The SCSI handler is very slow, and could be updated to better support alot of more modern device configurations.

 

I like your update ideas. They would really make the CSS Black Box compete for top of the line again. Without a case they are overly exposed to dust and accidental damage.

 

Does Bob have any plans to update it or just produce another run of the previous design with the most current firmware, RAM, and floppy boards?

Will a case be available?

What price range is it expected to be?

 

Thanks for looking into this.

I really respect the work he did producing the original and look forward to new runs and/or products.

 

from what he said it will just be another run, did not mention cases, i'll ask him about price next time I talk to him...

[+wood_jl]

from what he said it will just be another run, did not mention cases, i'll ask him about price next time I talk to him...

 

Honestly, does he have any idea - the level of enthusiasm for the Atari computer? There is tremendous enthusiasm (me) and a remarkable quantity of expertise (not me. but the gurus here and even within this thread) here. Frankly, as oblivious and incapable as I am, if I am tuned into this scene, then I can't help but wonder why people who have been immeasurably more competent and involved in Atari computers (like Bob Puff) are not here. Obviously, I don't see the big picture, but I have to wonder.

[pjbramley]

One for me!

[+skr]

Minimum one for me, perhaps 2 or more (depending on price).

[themrfreeze]

 

Honestly, does he have any idea - the level of enthusiasm for the Atari computer? There is tremendous enthusiasm (me) and a remarkable quantity of expertise (not me. but the gurus here and even within this thread) here. Frankly, as oblivious and incapable as I am, if I am tuned into this scene, then I can't help but wonder why people who have been immeasurably more competent and involved in Atari computers (like Bob Puff) are not here. Obviously, I don't see the big picture, but I have to wonder.

 

Last I knew, Bob has other business endeavors going on that undoubtedly don't leave him with much time to tinker with Atari stuff. The man has to pay the bills, and as much as we might like the Atari scene, it hasn't been a viable way of supporting yourself financially for a really long time now.

[+wood_jl]

 

Honestly, does he have any idea - the level of enthusiasm for the Atari computer? There is tremendous enthusiasm (me) and a remarkable quantity of expertise (not me. but the gurus here and even within this thread) here. Frankly, as oblivious and incapable as I am, if I am tuned into this scene, then I can't help but wonder why people who have been immeasurably more competent and involved in Atari computers (like Bob Puff) are not here. Obviously, I don't see the big picture, but I have to wonder.

 

Last I knew, Bob has other business endeavors going on that undoubtedly don't leave him with much time to tinker with Atari stuff. The man has to pay the bills, and as much as we might like the Atari scene, it hasn't been a viable way of supporting yourself financially for a really long time now.

 

That is a true "reality break." I get it now. But man, what a run he had. I'd like to think he could make one more "encore," but it could be fantasy. He went into other electronics, like amplifiers and such, eh?

[tregare]

Just spoke with Bob Puff, I've E-mailed him this thread, hopefully he will register here and reply as well...

 

 

Might be interested, especially if there were some updates to the design

[dungeonmaster]

If the price will not be higher than the original, then I would be interested in purchasing one as well. Upgraded or not, it would be nice to add to my colletionn of Atari goodies!

[themrfreeze]

 

That is a true "reality break." I get it now. But man, what a run he had. I'd like to think he could make one more "encore," but it could be fantasy. He went into other electronics, like amplifiers and such, eh?

 

It's been quite a while since I talked with him, but he's been focused on the audio world (both designing and selling audio equipment and doing large scale audio system design and installation) for several years now. As I recall, he was interested in that kind of stuff during the CSS days too.

[carmel_andrews]

will the 'new' blackbox (bb) incorporate the floppyboard as an 'all in one' add on

 

I also seem to remember that either the bb or the floppyboard had an orboard 'archiver' or 'superarchiver' chip, will that still be the case with this re-released version

Edited April 4, 2011 by carmel_andrews

[IndusGT]

ehem....about 15-20 so far, anyone else?

[mimo]

It all depends on price before I can commit, I am really stretched for Atari $'s with all the cool stuff being released at the moment

[IndusGT]

Just spoke with Bob Puff, he was and I quote " very swamped with work" But fowarded the number of people interested in a blackbox so far and he seemed suprised, hopefully if there's more people interested he will eventually decide to do a run. I m trying to get him to make me some UltraSpeed plus OSes but he has to dig up the parts, I guess I'll have to be "persistent" enough until he does them...

[Stephen J. Carden]

Forgive my ignorance, but how does the Black Box differ from the MIO? They seem similar.

 

Tempest

The Black box is a third generation pbi device.

 

First Gerneration PBI Device Supra/K-Products SCSI/printer device.. Worked good but you had to burn a rom for your harddrive.

Second Generation PBI Device MIO. SCSI/SASI printer/serial device. Onboard Software control

Third Generation PBI Device. Orginal Design The Black Box SCSI/SASI Serial and Printer Port Firmware Controled Menus.

Second type Black Box Added an Rom Based Sector editor

Third type Device Added a very cool Floppy Board to control 1.44 1.2 3 1/5 and 5 1/4 floppy drives.

 

My View this is the BEST PBI device to come out for the Atari during the 1990's. The Black Box is a very useful device if you wish to program because you can jump right into the code and see where your errors are! The only thing that could have been done better on the black box is that Puff did not put the rom control lines on the main board when he went from a 27128 rom to a 27512 rom. There have been add ons since then to give a 64k print Buffer and a flash rom configuration. I am sure I would purchase at least 3 just because one of the 4 I have left might go down. I would really love to see this hardware redone with all the mods and no kineir wire. I use a scsi to IDE bridge and the an IDE to Compact flash and it works Great!

 

This is the one bit of hardware I can not do without! And if you get one you will agree I am sure of it.

 

Stephen J. Carden

[MEtalGuy66]

The design itself would have to be completely redone to make it compete on a cost per functinality basis with what's available today. The most advanced thing about the black box (for it's day) was it's firmware.