Do 2600 really dislike LCD monitors?

[Uzumaki]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Yn9aCyd-TA

 

Gotta be a first: LCD TV that rolls. It's too bad there's no V-hold. Maybe I should call up Vizio and ask them where V hold is, and refer the video I made as proof of rolling video.

 

Harmony's not the only one with rolling picture, nearly all of the 2600 games (both real and ROMs on Harmony) rolled on this LCD. I had 2 other LCD TVs, one just wouldn't display with RF and had awful color with AV, and another displayed in weird color almost like reverse palette. That 2 LCD TV were returned because they also didn't work with Nintendo 64 for some reason.

 

I wish it was easy to keep CRT TV just for Atari 2600 but space is limited

[yllawwally]

I've used the 2600, 7800, and 5200 on my lcd Tv's with no problems. The colors were nice, only thing I didn't like was they were too crisp. The atari seems to look better with a little bleed. How are you connecting yours? Do you have an A/V mod?

[+remowilliams]

No, but many new monitors really dislike the 2600s freaky quasi standard video output.

[RevEng]

Out of curiosity, what 2600 games don't roll on the TV?

[keilbaca]

Have you tried a VCR?

 

Try using a VCR to run the Atari 2600 through, then output to the TV in composite.

[0078265317]

Worked fine for me. Got a sears tele 2600 and jungle hunt and 112 space invaders. Both never roll. Copy 18.5" lcd hifdef tv. 130 dollars at office depot. Not bad.

Edited April 11, 2011 by 0078265317

[SlowCoder]

My LCD works with all my consoles. I only have a minor problem with my IntV, where the screen bounces randomly about an inch. It only does it on that one TV and not on my other LCD.

I don't know much about RF, but I believe it has a vertical sync/timing signal that helps keep the TV from rolling. I've heard that some consoles are missing that signal, so the TV will scroll easier.

[+SpiceWare]

My HDTV has issues with my Atari and my Nomad (Genesis). They generate signals that aren't necessarily in spec. Whenever I replace mine I plan to bring both consoles with me to test out the TV as I'd love to play Medieval Mayhem on something larger than my 14" C= 1084 S.

 

One thing that surprised me last time I checked out TVs was some of the newer sets are no longer including an S-Video connection - and they weren't the low-end models.

[+FujiSkunk]

My living room TV, a Samsung 40" LCD, has had no trouble with any old console I've thrown at it, including the Atari.

 

My computer monitor, another Samsung LCD (19"), has cable and video inputs. It can play the old systems too, but it's got an interesting feature that makes playing them more annoying. The not-quite-standard video signals put out by pretty much every video console up through the PlayStation 1 basically allowed old TVs to give progressive video at half the normal resolution, essentially "240p". My computer monitor catches this and actually switches itself to a "real" 240p mode. Unfortunately it makes the old graphics look even more jagged and blocky than they really are. I wish the monitor offered a way to turn that off, but I have yet to find it.

Edited April 11, 2011 by FujiSkunk

[+Nathan Strum]

One thing that surprised me last time I checked out TVs was some of the newer sets are no longer including an S-Video connection - and they weren't the low-end models.

S-video is basically dead on consumer electronics, unfortunately. TVs and A/V receivers have both pretty-much abandoned S-video in favor of component and HDMI. There are ways around it, but they aren't cheap.

[+SpiceWare]

Yowza - good thing they still had composite inputs.

[Stan]

I wish someone could determine a way for figuring out what games are more likely to roll, or develop some sort of list of titles.

[SlowCoder]

Does rolling seem to be caused by certain games? If so it seems to me that it means the actual video signal is generated in the cart and not the console itself. Seems counter-intuitive.

 

@Stan ... if you think such a list would be good, you could head it up. I think it would require knowing specs on affected TV brands and models. In some cases you might be able to get people to lend you their games for testing.

Edited April 12, 2011 by SlowCoder

[eshu]

Does rolling seem to be caused by certain games? If so it seems to me that it means the actual video signal is generated in the cart and not the console itself. Seems counter-intuitive.

 

On the 2600 the video signal is generated by the code on the cart....most systems would output the same standard signal but not the 2600 - you get games with different numbers of scanlines etc...

Edited April 12, 2011 by eshu

[Pilsner73]

For me the newer the LCD (technology wise) the more chance it won't work right or have issues.

[+LS650]

I keep an old 20" picture tube just for my old gaming systems. You can probably find one at a thrift store or on Craigslist for $25-$30.

 

Heck, often I'll see old CRT TVs just sitting on the curb abandoned, waiting for the recycle truck to show up.

[maiki]

1. Don't tell me you don't have room for a nice 14 inch CRT portable TV. Who needs more to play video games on the real systems...

 

2. Whow! Good news they abandoned S-Video. That will keep the "modding" nerds out of doing it and forcing them to stay with CRTs where they should be.

[SlowCoder]

2. Whow! Good news they abandoned S-Video. That will keep the "modding" nerds out of doing it and forcing them to stay with CRTs where they should be.

They'll have to phase put composite and component before that logic becomes valid. Besides, while I suppose it would be nice to use a CRT for my old games, in my case I need the space more than I need the CRT.

 

Personally I applaud those who have made playing old systems on new TVs possible. Were it not for them, there would be many less people able to play and enjoy them.

[rockman_x_2002]

I haven't tried my 2600 on every television in the house but so far it's worked on mine. Mine is an older HDTV though (720p), so I'm not sure if that makes much of a difference. Seems to work just fine on it, as does every other classic video gaming console (although the NES, SNES, and Genesis do display like a pixelated horror show).

[+Nathan Strum]

Harmony's not the only one with rolling picture, nearly all of the 2600 games (both real and ROMs on Harmony) rolled on this LCD. I had 2 other LCD TVs, one just wouldn't display with RF and had awful color with AV, and another displayed in weird color almost like reverse palette. That 2 LCD TV were returned because they also didn't work with Nintendo 64 for some reason.

Are you using a modded or unmodded 2600? And if modded, which mod? If unmodded, are you connected directly with RF to the TV, or are you going through a VCR?

[SeaGtGruff]

Gotta be a first: LCD TV that rolls.

[silly]That is so freakin' cool! Maybe somebody could use that trick to make a vertically-scrolling playfield without actually scrolling the playfield?[/silly]

 

Okay, I can see where that would make it more challenging to play a game. But I'm wondering if it's doing it on all carts, or just that one? Where I'm going with this is-- Doesn't the Harmony cart (or at least its menu screen) display 264 lines instead of the standard (non-interlaced) 262 lines, for musical purposes, or am I thinking of something else? If I'm right about the 264-line display, could that be causing the picture to creep down 2 lines each frame (or field?) because of the way the Vizio is trying to convert the incoming signal into a standard 480i display? Of course, if that's what's happening, it might have a problem with other carts, because don't some games draw slightly more or slightly fewer than 262 lines? You might try a cart that's known to draw fewer than 262 lines and see if the picture scrolls in the opposite direction. It would also be easy the create some simple test ROMs that display different numbers of lines-- e.g., 258, or 260, or 262, or 264, or 266, etc.

 

Does the Vizio have any options hidden in its menu for handling older game consoles and computers? Maybe there's a setting somewhere that will allow it to display a stable picture even if the signal contains an "oddball" number of lines?

 

Michael

[Dweller7777]

It's interesting, I have the exact same problem, but only with two carts. Solaris and Basic Programming.

 

I use a Tosiba 20" flat CRT from probably 2002. There is no vertical hold control.

 

I've been dying to play Solaris (and I don't do emulators anymore.. ).

 

And I've used three different model VCSs (a heavy six-switch, a light six-switch, and a Sears Video Arcade II)..

 

Ah well..

[SeaGtGruff]

It's interesting, I have the exact same problem, but only with two carts. Solaris and Basic Programming.

According to Stella, "BASIC Programming" displays 264 lines, which fits my theory-- but "Solaris" displays 262 lines, which doesn't.

 

Edit: Unless "Solaris" occasionally displays more or less than 262 lines.

 

Michael

Edited April 13, 2011 by SeaGtGruff

[Thomas Jentzsch]

According to Stella, "BASIC Programming" displays 264 lines, which fits my theory-- but "Solaris" displays 262 lines, which doesn't.

 

Edit: Unless "Solaris" occasionally displays more or less than 262 lines.

I don't think 2 extra lines would cause any problem on any display. Anyway IIRC Harmony does 262 lines exactly.

 

It could however be, that the monitor doesn't like vertical sync signal created by those carts. But since those carts don't roll on other monitors, I suppose that's a problem of the monitor not allowing the slightest difference to specification.

[Stan]

Hmmm, perhaps I could make such a list! I think I'll start today!