Why I prefer emulation

[SoulBlazer]

I realize that I'm opening myself to flaming by posting this, but my hope was to get some inteligent conversation going, to see if others feel the same way, and to hear what others think.

 

Since hanging out around here, I've noticed the vast majority of people here are collectors, who grew up during the 'classic gaming' era (1974-1984), and stick their nose up at emulation. I'm not sure of all of the reasons, but it seems some of it is related to wanting the 'real' experience of the games and consoles, with all their pluses and minses. It seems kind of snobby sometimes, as if the die hard collectors only consider 'their way is the right way' (although most people here are very friendly and helpfull, even to newcomers).

 

I'm the first to admit that while I had a Atari 2600 as a kid and enjoyed the system, my fav systems were the NES/SNES (and yes, age probaly has something to do with it.) I do still enjoy playing the games. And most of the ports of the classic games are just not as good as the real thing.

 

However, since embracing emulation over 10 years ago, I see it as being the best of both worlds -- I get the 'pluses' of the system and games with none of the 'minuses' of it. Why?

 

I persent for the court the following pieces of 'evidence':

 

1) It's cheaper. Rather then spending hundreds or even thousands of dollars to get a system and games, as well as all the extras that comes with it, I can spend less then a hundred to get some critical things for it.

2) I use the real controllers so no need to mess around with a mouse and keyboard (2600 joystick, NES pad, etc, all modified for USB input)

3) I don't need to bother about repairing old systems, cleaning games, making sure that they work, dealing with hassles, etc....I can just fire up the emulation program and ROM and go.

4) Save states. Enough said.

5) Can use a nice modern large gaming setup with superior sound and options, even on a LCD monitor.

6) Can play over the internet with friends.

7) Less space needed. Just a fairly good computer system and several CD's with the ROM's.

 

I certinaly understand why people feel attached to playing on the real system, but I don't just get it. It's the games that matter, not what you play them on. With the emulators just as good (and in many cases, better) then the original systems, with using real controllers, and less hassle, it's a win-win.

 

I thought maybe that this 'real systems vs emulation' argument would come down straight along the 'collector vs gamer' lines, but it doesn't seem to be that way either. I wonder why?

 

People are hard to figure out.

[Mirage]

Other than sentimental attachment, often times the emulation isn't exact. That's my main beef. Timing can be off, it's not visually authentic and so on.

 

But, that said, I now emulate NES, SNES, and Genesis because I feel that the emulation quality for those systems has reached a point where it's acceptable to me. Also, since those systems were after my main gaming years, any inaccuracies are acceptable to me. I'm just not that picky about that era of gaming. But, as great as Stella is, it's still not exact enough to emulate a real 2600 to me, and I doubt it ever will be, through no fault of it's own. It's just the way the 2600 is... very difficult to emulate accurately (enough) on modern hardware.

 

Still, emulation is a GREAT thing.

[MagitekAngel]

I use both, and appreciate both. Emulation is what got me into classic gaming in the first place, and since then I've accumulated a fair amount of original hardware and software. At the same time, I continue to refine my emulation setup with updates, new ROMS, and fine-tuned control schemes.

 

I also use emulation to "try" before I "buy". If I'm going to put more than a few dollars down on a single piece of software, I want to know whether or not it's any good before I take the plunge. Cue the appropriate emulator and a half-hour test run.

 

All in all, I think original hardware and emulation go hand-in-hand for a sizable portion of classic gamers.

Edited April 24, 2011 by MagitekAngel

[CGQuarterly]

I went through a couple of emulation phases. Back when NES and Genesis emulators came out for DOS I played them a lot. Again when I got my first modded xbox. The modded xbox might have sold me on switching to emulation, but then I got in to RGB. Ultimately I am a collector and a gamer, but I prefer the real thing because the subtle hiccups and imperfections in emulators really annoy me. I also like the experience of perusing my shelves of games, picking out whatever looks good at the time, and popping it into my system. Emulation is cool, but the only thing I use it for anymore is to take screenshots for my website. To me, emulation is like having sex with a prostitute. It makes sense on paper, but it just ain't the same.

 

Chris

[+save2600]

LCD is crap. Resolution, lag time, blockiness, etc. Vintage gaming is not meant to be played back on LCD screens. LCD garbage aside, emulation can also equal sound being "off". Speed is often off. No physical attachment = no real value. PeeCee controllers are shit as well. Stelladapter helps, but I'm talking about the multitudes of Logitech and Gravis shit - that truly, honestly, is nothing but disposable shit that NEVER got the 4-way input right. For over 20 years! And then there is the lightgun game aspect. Good luck!

 

There is absolutely ZERO value in disposable PeeCee emulation from a hardware ownership standpoint. You *will* outgrow your silly current Windoze machine before too long. IF you're lucky, the developers will "keep up", but there's no guarantee of that. Playing classic games on junk... I just don't see the value in that at all. Even modern console's emulating older stuff. Like you're going to keep your Dreamcast or Wii around for very long. LMAO! Besides all that, all your lasers belong to us. Light Emitting Diodes do not last forever.

 

Emulation is only "cool" when testing or trying something out short term. Nothing will ever replace the real thing, played on real controllers, viewed on real TV's or monitors. Ever.

[Mirage]

As usual, Frank (save2600) says it the way I am really thinking it, without the filter LOL

[sheath]

I have a few problems with emulation. First and foremost emulation makes it too easy to overlook games. When everything is free you have no reason to play a game until you "get it." Secondly to that, almost everybody who plays a game over emulation first considers that experience somehow relevant to playing the real game on real hardware using the target output. Countless reviews and review scores, not to mention forum comments, have been based on untold variations in controller types, screen types, resolutions, emulator versions, console compilations or digital downloads, you name it.

 

I'm not being a snob when I say that Streets of Rage 2 or Sonic play and sound much better on a Model 1 Genesis than they do on any of the compilation discs or XBLA/PSN downloads. That is just true. I am all for emulation, and emulated compilations, bringing the next generation of gamers back to these games, I just wish they would all be seen for what they are, ports at best, even adaptations, but not the original material.

[SoulBlazer]

LCD is crap. Resolution, lag time, blockiness, etc. Vintage gaming is not meant to be played back on LCD screens. LCD garbage aside, emulation can also equal sound being "off". Speed is often off. No physical attachment = no real value. PeeCee controllers are shit as well. Stelladapter helps, but I'm talking about the multitudes of Logitech and Gravis shit - that truly, honestly, is nothing but disposable shit that NEVER got the 4-way input right. For over 20 years! And then there is the lightgun game aspect. Good luck!

 

There is absolutely ZERO value in PeeCee emulation from a hardware ownership standpoint. You *will* outgrow your silly current Windoze machine before too long. IF you're lucky, the developers will "keep up", but there's no guarantee of that. Playing classic games on junk... I just don't see the value in that at all. Even modern console's emulating older stuff. Like you're going to keep your Dreamcast or Wii around for very long. LMAO! Besides all that, all your lasers belong to us. Light Emitting Diodes do not last forever.

 

Emulation is only "cool" when testing or trying something out short term. Nothing will ever replace the real thing, played on real controllers, viewed on real TV's or monitors. Ever.

 

I suspose you missed the part where I said I was using real controllers? And who cares about ownership? I'm a gamer, not a collector (hence one of the reasons I posted this). Besides, Windows has been around for years, and it will be around for years to come. Emulators will come and go, but the ROM's will stay the same.

 

I could use a CRT TV or monitor if I wanted, but everything looks and plays just fine on the LCD monitor.

 

So, in response, if I'm playing a real game, with a real controller, and on a real TV, what's the difference, I ask you? Especily if I don't care about ownership but just want the 'high' of the game?

[SoulBlazer]

As usual, Frank (save2600) says it the way I am really thinking it, without the filter LOL

 

And the filer is a good thing sometimes, and for that you get a +1

[godslabrat]

If you like playing emulated stuff, cool, go for it. I don't. The fact that we have different preferences isn't going to ruin my breakfast.

[NE146]

I emulate

.. but I'm realistic about it. I know it's often not accurate in a lot of little ways. For example, I know that by hooking up a 5200 and an Xbox to the exact same CRT TV, starting a game such as Space Dungeon, then just flipping between the 2 (Input 1 & Input 2, etc.) and you WILL see the differences in video & overall looks right off the bat. You'll also hear some sound differences (volume of sound effects, etc.). This is often a lot more noticeable in stuff like SNES games. But you know what, at the end of the day as long as you're aware of it I think it's fine for the most part. Unlike a lot of people out there, we have the original stuff to check out if we really feel like it.

 

Where emulation generally will always fall short for me though is a lot of classic arcade games.. with physical attributes (e.g. visual hardware, lights, & controls) that just obviously can't be emulated. But that's another story. And yes I'm aware of the artwork options in Mame, but that's a far cry from an actual piece of painted plexiglass.

[Kirbot]

So, in response, if I'm playing a real game, with a real controller, and on a real TV, what's the difference, I ask you? Especily if I don't care about ownership but just want the 'high' of the game?

 

 

If you can get that "high" with emulation, than it doesn't really matter what anybody else thinks.

 

But personally, I get much more enjoyment out of the "real thing".

I like to be able to hold a cartridge or cd, and the system.

I'm looking at my Sears Super Video Arcade right now, and there is a certain amount of pride of ownership and joy that comes with owning and using the real thing.

 

I use emulation too on occasion, but if I find a game I really like, I'll generally buy it so I can play it properly.

Edited April 24, 2011 by Kirbot

[rhindlethereddragon]

I realize that I'm opening myself to flaming by posting this, but my hope was to get some inteligent conversation going, to see if others feel the same way, and to hear what others think.

 

Since hanging out around here, I've noticed the vast majority of people here are collectors, who grew up during the 'classic gaming' era (1974-1984), and stick their nose up at emulation. I'm not sure of all of the reasons, but it seems some of it is related to wanting the 'real' experience of the games and consoles, with all their pluses and minses. It seems kind of snobby sometimes, as if the die hard collectors only consider 'their way is the right way' (although most people here are very friendly and helpfull, even to newcomers).

 

I'm the first to admit that while I had a Atari 2600 as a kid and enjoyed the system, my fav systems were the NES/SNES (and yes, age probaly has something to do with it.) I do still enjoy playing the games. And most of the ports of the classic games are just not as good as the real thing.

 

However, since embracing emulation over 10 years ago, I see it as being the best of both worlds -- I get the 'pluses' of the system and games with none of the 'minuses' of it. Why?

 

I persent for the court the following pieces of 'evidence':

 

1) It's cheaper. Rather then spending hundreds or even thousands of dollars to get a system and games, as well as all the extras that comes with it, I can spend less then a hundred to get some critical things for it.

2) I use the real controllers so no need to mess around with a mouse and keyboard (2600 joystick, NES pad, etc, all modified for USB input)

3) I don't need to bother about repairing old systems, cleaning games, making sure that they work, dealing with hassles, etc....I can just fire up the emulation program and ROM and go.

4) Save states. Enough said.

5) Can use a nice modern large gaming setup with superior sound and options, even on a LCD monitor.

6) Can play over the internet with friends.

7) Less space needed. Just a fairly good computer system and several CD's with the ROM's.

 

I certinaly understand why people feel attached to playing on the real system, but I don't just get it. It's the games that matter, not what you play them on. With the emulators just as good (and in many cases, better) then the original systems, with using real controllers, and less hassle, it's a win-win.

 

I thought maybe that this 'real systems vs emulation' argument would come down straight along the 'collector vs gamer' lines, but it doesn't seem to be that way either. I wonder why?

 

People are hard to figure out.

 

I like your style. "Evidence" to the court, I like that!

 

I have enjoyed Emulation in the past, and I think it's certainly one of the modern miracles of the Internet.

 

That said, I'm going to "go" where nobody else has: I believe that the original Colecovision and the original cartridges eminate an "energy" from the time period of which they came - and I think this is important.

 

Thing about being a coin collector. You hold a mercury-faced dime in your hand from 1927. Not to get metaphysical on you, but you can FEEL the energy from all of the thousands of people who have touched it over the years. This little piece of metal made it's way around the country. It bought a comic book for a kid in 1928. It bought a movie and popcorn in 1929, etc. - You take and stamp an exact "copy" of that dime cast from aluminum or tin, you're not going to feel ANY of that!

 

The Colecovision, Atari, Intellivision, etc., have a similar energy to it. These games were the worlds and hopes and dreams of someone back in the 80's. It was everything to them. There is a lot of energy there. You can directly "tap" into that energy from that time period by way of having the original hardware and original cartridges.

 

You can amass a collection of games these days that you NEVER would have been able to have/afford back then. Now, what's the difference? A few decades in time. You've got it now. That's what's important. Think about that.

 

It all gets pretty abstract, the feelings a person has for thier game collections. YES, I could buy a Colecovision "multicart" with everything on it in one shot. But I would be missing out on the full experience.

[Chuplayer]

Eh, getting PC controllers that are good isn't too hard to do. There are USB adapters, 360 controllers are decent (although some programs don't play nice with Xinput), and there's my personal favorite, a modded XBOX 1 controller and XBCD drivers.

 

I was first blown away by emulation when I played Streets of Rage 2 on an XBOX emulator. I own the cart and love the cart, but it sounds so much better emulated and played through decent speakers. Seriously. It sounds fantastic.

 

As for the inaccuracies, well, we all dealt with little nagging things in our gameplay experiences back in the day. Faulty NES 72-pin connectors, cramp-inducing Atari controllers, and arcade buttons and joysticks that failed to work two years before the machine was finally retired. Emulation's little nagging things are usually just a replacement for those more annoying things. So what if the character select screen in NES Micro Machines looks a bit glitchy in an emulator? The game plays fine, and you don't have to worry about your game suddenly turning into garbage when the 10NES lockout chip decides to ruin your day.

 

I also believe that free emulation is generally better than emulation you pay for. I've seen discussions about it before. Even in the recent iPad Atari collection topic, there was talk about entitlement culture and whatnot. That may or may not be true, but that's not inherent to emulation. If something's not emulated well enough (I'm looking at you, Model 3 emulation), I don't whine about it. I patiently wait for the next release. In addition, a bunch of those XBLA and classics compilations are emulated like trash compared to the free emulators.

 

The XBLA TMNT arcade game's sound crackles for me. It just turns into static. I never had that problem on MAME32 back in 2001, and I still don't.

 

The XBLA Streets of Rage 2 has poor sound emulation. The "fwip" sound of punches sounds all wrong, among other things, even compared to the actual cart and Genesis console and not the godlike emulation of it.

 

The recent Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection is a complete farce. They claimed that they couldn't include S3&K or else they would have had to cut all the arcade games in order to emulate its lock-on technology which is so hard to do that it has never been done before. Except it has been done before. For free. And better. That particular collection was incompetent at best and malicious PR spin damage control at worst. Even the Nintendo DS could handle it, for crying out loud!

 

It even took SEGA 10 years to emulate the sound of their own system properly. Remember those early SEGA Smash Packs? The sound was atrocious. Once again, free emulators won long before anything official.

 

And don't even get me started on some of the Digital Eclipse stuff. Granted, their SNES Williams Greatest Hits was fantastic, but I've got to wonder if that collection was a collection of ports rather than emulation. I mean, this is the SNES we're talking about.

 

Not to mention all the customization free emulators give you. Paid-for emulators are usually on consoles, so they get made to the lowest common denominator. Then you get garbage like the PS2 Midway Arcade Treasures 3 where the gas is mapped to R1 and the brake is mapped to X in every game, and you can't change it. I was sooooooooo ticked off when I bought that game. Luckily the XBOX version generally has better controller mappings even though you can't change them.

 

That being said, paid-for emulation isn't all bad. The XBOX Midway Arcade Treasures 3 has a nice emulation of San Francisco Rush: The Rock that you can't get anywhere else, and Bleemcast was good for the three games it was made for. However, those are the exceptions and not the rules.

 

Even though I love emulation, I also love the original consoles, so I'm not really partial to either.

Edited April 24, 2011 by Chuplayer

[Videogamecollector123]

I only really emulate MAME, just on my comp, I'm still a hardware purists if I buy something. I buy original hardware and use the RF outputs on all of my systems as I like to experience all my consoles as someone back in when they came out would. Also I'm just one of those people who likes to have something physical that I own rather then a bunch of files on my computer. Though there are just some systems that can't be emulated correctly, like Vectrex or Virtual Boy(I like it). Also I'm somewhat of a preservationists (16mm all the way! )so I just like making machines work well into the future.

Edited April 24, 2011 by Videogamecollector123

[Mirage]

Okay, I'm going to drop the bomb: Kaboom!

[Ransom]

Emulation's great. I'm glad it's there.

 

I use it for games I'm evaluating, and for post-crash games. I don't have much attachment to the post-crash consoles and don't usually want to bother with them.

 

But for classic gaming, I prefer using the real hardware. Yeah, it's an emotional attachment kinda thing. I tried using 100% emulation, and it just didn't do it for me when it comes to pre-NES gaming systems. Only the real hardware brings back those great memories and feelings in full.

 

But if emulation's your thing for all systems, I think that's great. No need to justify it.

[NE146]

Okay, I'm going to drop the bomb: Kaboom!

 

Can't play it via emulation really..or of course you can, but it's 100% un-fun unless you jump through a bunch of hoops.

[RedTank]

Not a huge collector here... for me it's more of an ethical dilemma than a question of authenticity. I can certainly rationalize that the original creators of, say, the copy of Strider I bought today won't see a dime from that purchase -- so in that sense there's probably not much difference. But still, it just doesn't feel right... especially for games that are readily available today via legal means. (retro collections, etc)

 

But then there are titles stuck in licensing hell, like the Capcom D&D games, that help to muddy the waters. Unless you have a Saturn that can play imports and lots of spare cash, or the actual arcade boards, you'll never play these legally.

 

I think it also takes some fun out of the hobby when every game ever made is a mere mouse click away -- stumbling upon something you never knew existed is all part of the fun. Once it's reduced down to a list of files on a hard drive there's nothing left to discover. (more or less)

Edited April 24, 2011 by RedTank

[CGQuarterly]

For those who use emulation to "evaluate" games or because it's cheaper, why not use flash carts? I love them. You have to pay for them, but they allow you to play ROMs on actual hardware.

 

Chris

[BrianC]

I use emulation for PD games, homebrews, protos, hacks of games I have, and the 2600 games I have on the Atari 80 in 1 collection, but I prefer to play games on the real system. Not for collecting reasons either. I do get some official emulation collections, and I like to support them when they are done well. I don't feel ROMs of games that aren't PD or freeware are free. I also feel that games aren't a need. Expensive games are something that I can wait for and I don't mind getting games cart only.

Edited April 24, 2011 by BrianC

[gooch3008]

Emulation is the reason the PSP is the single greatest piece of consumer electronics sold in the last 10 years. I love save states. Of course people will debate things like sound quality and whatnot, (I prefer the real deal to be honest) but for on-the-go times, emulation is just great. Its a personal goal of mine to acquire a cheap laptop and stuff it to the gills with every rom I can get my hands on, kind of like a virtual archive. I wanna have a copy of every single game I own on the beast, and take it with me everywhere. You just can't do that with a collection that fills half a room or more. Still, to me nothing beats poking through your collection, powering on your system of choice and having at it. There is just nothing like it.

[+save2600]

I suspose you missed the part where I said I was using real controllers?

Yes, I must have. But then, there's always the I/O adapter issue which is imperfect at best and buggy at worst

And who cares about ownership?

Collectors and those that appreciate and recognize the difference between the real thing I guess.

Emulators will come and go, but the ROM's will stay the same.

Incorrect. ROM dumps and versions change (IE: MAME) and are rendered incompatible with different revisions. Mainstream OS's, disposable motherboards and chipsets come and go. 95 is not the same as 98. PIII is not the same as PII MMX. PIV is not the same as your iCoreX. ME is not the same as XP, blah, blah, Windoze, Blah... but if you're lucky, patches might exist for some of these things so you can continue to enjoy emulating into the future. I wouldn't take for granted certain emulators will be around "forever". Authors lose interest in this stuff all the time. Sure, they then might be made "open source" at some time, but again - wouldn't bank on it is all I'm saying.

I could use a CRT TV or monitor if I wanted, but everything looks and plays just fine on the LCD monitor.

There's differences in how vintage gaming manipulates and uses the color palette and imperfections of NTSC to their advantage for display on a CRT that loses its effect when viewed on an LCD. Some game may look "okay", while others can look completely ugly. PS1 and PS2 are great examples of this. Two systems that look absolutely horrible on an LCD screen and barely passable on plasma IMO.

 

Hey, you're the one who thought they'd don their flame suit, starting such a thread!

[the.golden.ax]

Could you type, or write a book with speech to text? Sure. Some people just enjoy the tactile experience of writing with a high quality pen and paper.

 

I've found the vast majority of emulation to fail at an accurate experience. Perhaps because I've experienced the real thing enough to notice or care. Atari, Sega, and Neo Geo are the closest. Most of the others fail horribly at emulation.

 

AX

[Austin]

Great topic, SoulBlazer.

 

These days I do not shun people that prefer to strictly emulate, although I admit I used to when I was firm about collecting. With personal irresponsible spending over the last who knows how many years, I can perfectly understand your stance and I am moving more and more in that direction myself. I have bought and sold so many of the same games over the years that standing in an independent videogame store no longer makes me feel like a kid in a candy shop. I browse the shelves, saying "been there, done that.. not feeling it.. what's the point?". Prices are also rising and much of the great stuff is getting to the point where the money involved simply isn't worth it anymore. Emulation is becoming an increasingly enticing prospect as time moves on for me.

 

Anyways, regardless of recent times and feelings, my stance on emulation has always been that it's a great thing. Like someone already stated above, it's been one of the greatest gifts of the internet age: They have led me to rediscover classic systems I may have otherwise forgotten, they have let me "try before I buy", they have given me easy-access to screen-grabs for web sites and high score contests, and they have given me access to games that were never released in physical form, not to mention arcade games that never got the home treatment (or ones that never got the proper home treatment!). I admit that it wasn't always rosy though. I have been through my moralistic periods where I felt guilt in emulating. I have been through my elitist-collector phases where anyone that didn't take good care of their games, keep their boxes, and play on real hardware, were considered inferior. Where am I right now? I'm in a "I don't give a damn" phase, one that's most-likely here to stay. At least for a while.

 

There are clearly some trade-offs between emulation and the real thing. The biggest thing is that it's not the real thing. You can't grasp the cart, you can't feel it lock into the slot, and you can't slap that eject button because it's not there. You can't browse the packaging or dive into the instruction manual to get a feel for the game before playing. You can't appreciate the unique, of-the-time art style found within, or take a look at the back-story because it's not described in detail within the game itself. Of course, minor video and sound quirks aside, the majority of the experience is the game itself, not the physical product. It does all play a small part in the overall experience though, but how big of one? I attribute that to mindset, and no mindset is as correct as any one will ever be. Think about that for a minute..

 

Anyways, my brain is fried. Good night.