Why I prefer emulation

[Schizophretard]

Oh, here's a better way to put it. "Game" and "collect" are two distinct verbs. That's the difference. You can do one or the other, or you can do both.

 

But if you don't play games you have no reason to collect and if you don't collect you have no games to play. Both verbs go together.

[Mirage]

In my first response, I said "I suppose you could say that someone who collects roms is a collector, but I would say it's obvious that when pretty much anyone says "collector" they are implying a "collector of physical things"" add to that what I said about the entire issue comes down to the 2 verbs "game" (or "play") and "collect", and that's the only answers there are. Sure, one can collect ROMs and/or emulators. But do they play them? Or just collect them? IF they play them, they are a gamer. And a collector of ROMs. (but most people mean collecting physical carts etc when they say "collector" in this context). If they just collect (or save them to a HD), but never play them, they're not a gamer.

This whole issue quite frankly is very simple, and if you don't get the definitions of 2 verbs at this point, then honestly, I think you're just being dense!

[Mirage]

Oh, here's a better way to put it. "Game" and "collect" are two distinct verbs. That's the difference. You can do one or the other, or you can do both.

 

But if you don't play games you have no reason to collect and if you don't collect you have no games to play. Both verbs go together.

 

Untrue on both counts. Sorry, but there's no logic whatsoever to these statements at all. Many people collect but don't play, and plenty play games but don't collect. You're really beating a dead squirrel now. Seeya.

[Schizophretard]

Where would the line between gamer and collector be before emulators were created?

 

<double belabor>

 

Collector = collects games, but doesn't play all the games he has (collects).

Gamer = buys games and plays them all. may trade them or pass them along after playing. OR plays on emulators or via other method (flash cart).

 

One can be a gamer AND a collector. MANY are both. (I am both). I think this may be where the lack of clarity comes in, since many of us are really both. The only grey area I see is maybe if a gamer buys games, plays them, then tosses them in a pile, never playing them again, but not selling them either. Is that collecting or just keeping and not selling? I guess the distinction there would just be with the person themselves... meaning, what is their motivation? Is it just laziness in not passing them along, or do they consciously keep them to collect... in which case they become a collector and a gamer.

 

Again, I really don't see any lack of distinction whatsoever between a gamer and a collector. To me, there's no confusion whatsoever. A gamer has one definition (one that plays games), and a collector has another (one that collects items, in this context, we're generally referring to physical items by default). But, each definition is not mutually exclusive. One can be both.

 

The definition of gamer and of collector is not dependent on the existence of or non-existence of emulators in any way. Emulators just enable people to be gamers without owning hardware or purchased (new or used) software.

 

Ultimately, I think it comes down to intent/motivation in any case. What does the person think they are? If I only have 1 cartridge, but I would like to get more, but just can't find or afford any, maybe I consider myself to be a collector (though most would think that collection is pathetic perhaps!). If I play that game too, then maybe I'm a gamer AND a poor collector!

 

</double belabor>

 

What catagory would you put Rom Hunter in? What category would you put someone that downloads his collection? What if they have his collection but don't play all the games? It isn't physical but it is a collection of games. What if someone downloads every single emulator and ROM known to exist? Are they still just a gamer all because it isn't a physical collection?

 

I've already answered all these including the non-physical collection question(s). I actually thought of Rom Hunter too, when I was typing those responses. I'm sure you can figure out the rest by yourself. The verbs "game" and "collect" are different verbs. One can do one or the other, or one can do both. Any further conversation on this is obviously just semantics and delving into specific cases of the uses of those 2 verbs.

 

Then I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this point. I just don't see how emulation equates to gamer and real thing equates to collector. A collector can collect ROM's. As a collector I consider Rom Hunter's collection part of my collection. A gamer can prefer the real thing. As a gamer I prefer the real thing.

[Schizophretard]

Oh, here's a better way to put it. "Game" and "collect" are two distinct verbs. That's the difference. You can do one or the other, or you can do both.

 

But if you don't play games you have no reason to collect and if you don't collect you have no games to play. Both verbs go together.

 

Untrue on both counts. Sorry, but there's no logic whatsoever to these statements at all. Many people collect but don't play, and plenty play games but don't collect. You're really beating a dead squirrel now. Seeya.

 

Sorry that I didn't know that.

[Mirage]

Then I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this point. I just don't see how emulation equates to gamer and real thing equates to collector. A collector can collect ROM's. As a collector I consider Rom Hunter's collection part of my collection. A gamer can prefer the real thing. As a gamer I prefer the real thing.

 

I never actually said what you are saying here. At all. I never said "emulation equates to gamer and real thing equates to collector". What we'll need to disagree on simply the semantics of the verbs. I suspect that we actually agree on what matters here (the actual topic of this thread), since as a gamer, I prefer the real thing over emulation as well. I also prefer the real thing over virtual as a collector. (even though, yeah, I too collect both) See? That's the only thing we've been debating the semantics of, is the meaning of those 2 verbs. I've only been trying to withhold the actual definitions of those 2 distinct words. But I think we agree on all the points that really matter.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Mirage

[Schizophretard]

Then I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this point. I just don't see how emulation equates to gamer and real thing equates to collector. A collector can collect ROM's. As a collector I consider Rom Hunter's collection part of my collection. A gamer can prefer the real thing. As a gamer I prefer the real thing.

 

I never actually said what you are saying here. At all. I never said "emulation equates to gamer and real thing equates to collector". What we'll need to disagree on simply the semantics of the verbs. I suspect that we actually agree on what matters here (the actual topic of this thread), since as a gamer, I prefer the real thing over emulation as well. I also prefer the real thing over virtual as a collector. (even though, yeah, I too collect both) See? That's the only thing we've been debating the semantics of, is the meaning of those 2 verbs. I've only been trying to withhold the actual definitions of those 2 distinct words. But I think we agree on all the points that really matter.

 

I like that I'm detecting a peaceful tone. I'm not looking for a heated debate. I'm just wanting a friendly conversation. The emulation equates to gamer... Is what I've been getting at but I'm obviously not expressing myself well. In the OP's argument for emulation only for gamers he is making the arguement that it is a win-win and that he doesn't get why someone would prefer the real thing over emulation unless they are a collector. I'm trying to show that on both sides there are collectors and gamers. People behave as collectors and gamers on the virtual side of things and on the real side of things. I'm also trying to show that someone being a big fan of games type of gamer could be their drive to play the real thing. Kind of like a football fan may prefer to watch the game on TV(emulation) but a BIG football fan may prefer to watch the game at the stadium(real thing). I'm getting tired and about to crash but I hope I explained that well.

[AtariLeaf]

I like emulation for quick gaming. For example, last night since I was on the computer and felt like playing a little "Adventure" I just fired up Stella and played it a bit for a couple of rounds. If I had the time I would have prefered to hook up a 2600 and play the real cart but sometimes the ease of emulation wins out, especially when the convenience is there. Having said that, I prefer the real experience of real hardware, hands down.

[Mirage]

I like that I'm detecting a peaceful tone. I'm not looking for a heated debate. I'm just wanting a friendly conversation. The emulation equates to gamer... Is what I've been getting at but I'm obviously not expressing myself well. In the OP's argument for emulation only for gamers he is making the arguement that it is a win-win and that he doesn't get why someone would prefer the real thing over emulation unless they are a collector. I'm trying to show that on both sides there are collectors and gamers. People behave as collectors and gamers on the virtual side of things and on the real side of things. I'm also trying to show that someone being a big fan of games type of gamer could be their drive to play the real thing. Kind of like a football fan may prefer to watch the game on TV(emulation) but a BIG football fan may prefer to watch the game at the stadium(real thing). I'm getting tired and about to crash but I hope I explained that well.

 

I was never not peaceful or having a heated debate. Just discussing semantics. It does get frustrating sometimes discussing semantics though, when clearly there's a miscommunication or misunderstanding in what is being said, especially when it relates to definitions of words. It's never any skin off my back what someone else thinks. I do think that bringing it back to the original point of emulation vs. real helps bring the whole discussion back to reality though.

 

And yes, I think you're explaining it much better here. I completely agree with the way you have said it here, especially "People behave as collectors and gamers on the virtual side of things and on the real side of things. I'm also trying to show that someone being a big fan of games type of gamer could be their drive to play the real thing." Absolutely agree with that, which is not at all what it sounded like you were saying ever before until now. It was just the semantics before that was really confusing.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Mirage

[scotty]

OK here is my take.... First of all.... To the people who say emulation is wrong or emulation sucks....... In a nutshell, HONK ON BOBO!!

 

Let me explain myself. I GUARANTEE I can prove you to be a hypocrite. Did you ever see The Wizard of Oz? The ORIGINAL King Kong? Its A Wonderful Life? Gone With the Wind? Frankenstein? Dracula? Do you own them on DVD? VHS? Watch them on cable? Guess what!! All of these classics were made BEFORE PEOPLE HAD TVs IN THEIR HOUSE!!! They were be made to be viewed in their ORIGINAL FORMAT on the SILVER SCREEN. I do not care how good your 80" 3D flat screen with a 3D Blu-Ray player or a 1080 up-converting DVD player with a million point one surround sound system is, It is EMULATING the way the movie was meant to be viewed.

 

True story Bro.

 

/Rant mode off

 

Now with that out of the way.... I have a storage locker full of 6-8 Atari 2600's. a 7800, an 800, several 800XLs, 600XL, Odyssey 2, Intellivision, Adam, Couple of Vic 20's, Two Commodore 64s, two Amiga 500s, and I am sure I am forgetting some. I also have monitors, joysticks, Cassettes and floppy drives to go with most if not all the systems. I have a lot of software to go with the various systems. I have 15 coke crates FULL of floppy discs for various systems and as well as old dos based, and early windows PC games. . http://byemylife.com...coke7crates.jpg . Here at the condo, I have a Dreamcast, PS1, PS2, PS3, Wii, XB360, Gameboy, GBA, Nintendo DS 2 NESs, SNES, 2 Microvisions, PSP. and again, I am sure I have a few more that escape me. I live in a small two bedroom Condo, and I have 3 upright arcade games here as well. I think I am more than qualified to talk as a collector.

 

Herein lies the problem. SMALL CONDO. Would I love to have a house with a huge basement and have all these things set up? Of course. Can I do it? Not yet. Hopefully some day, but not any time soon. That is where emulation comes in. I have tested every emulator known to man. I was emulating a Mac and PC back in the Atari ST days. Sold the STs and bought an Amiga and did the same thing. I have been with Mame since it was known as the Multi Pac-Man emulator. You name it, I have it. Full sets of Atari 2600, 8bit, 5200, 7800, ST, Lynx, Jag, Jag CD, Mame, Mess, NES, SNES, GB, GBA, Sega Master System, Genesis, Saturn, Sega CD, 3DO, Virtual Boy, MSX, TRS-80.... You name it I have it. Guaranteed. I also have a huge collection of controllers along with USB adapters to connect alomost any controller. I have been collecting for many years. No, I will not send you roms, so do not waste my time or yours asking me for them. That being said, I think I am more than qualified to talk as a gamer.

 

NOTE: Not being sarcastic or bragging, as that is not my style. I am actually a quiet and low-key person. Just listing my credentials.

 

I love the real thing, but I also love emulation. Would I pay more than $10 for Chase the Chuck Wagon or Air Strike? Hell no. I love emulation. Every thing I could ever want or need, right in front of me. Aside from the large cabinet of controllers sitting next to my desk, you would never know. I hate clutter, and emulation allows me to play virtually anything I want whenever and wherever. I have both a 21" CRT and a 24" LED connected to the gaming PC to keep the authenticity of the CRT games. For the record, the 21" CRT is a NEC MutiSync FE2111 SB. SB is Super Bright. You will not get a blacker grill with brighter pixels. This thing has fooled people in to thinking it was a real vector monitor, It really IS that good. I am sorry, but I have not noticed the slowdowns other people have complained about. I dual boot XP and 7 x64. Intel 7300 Dual Core at somewhere around 2.66 or so. Really do not remember, as I have no problems with lags. Can I play PS2 games at full speed? No. I have a real one. Can I play the newest 3D games MAME is emulating at 60 fps? No. Can I play MILLIONS of other games just fine and discover new favorites and have great parties? You betcha!! Anyone who complains about emulation has not connected 4 PCs together and ran the Model 2 emulator and played 4 Player Daytona USA!

 

Like I said at the top of the message, how can you honestly say how great your home theater is when all you are doing is emulating a movie theater? Both real hard ware and emulation are wonderful, but you have to remember, not everyone can afford their own cinemaplex.

Edited February 27, 2012 by scotty

[scotty]

BTW... Anyone have a copy of Dusty Diamonds All Star Softball for the NES that they want to sell at a REASONABLE price? I can not quit playing this game!!! Each kid has their own abilities, and you have to really play it alot and take notes to assembe your team, and what position to put each player at.