Atari 8-Bit Advice

[Yart]

I want to buy an Atari 8-Bit computer.

 

I love the aesthetics of the original Atari 800. But is it the best choice?

 

The monitor port... obviously not VGA. Any way to connect it to a composite video signal?

 

It bugs me that it's max RAM is 48KB when some games support 64KB (some in which I want to play). Is this just a max set by Atari and is it possible to go even higher?

 

How are NTSC systems at handling PAL versions of games?

 

What's the deal with the XE and XL lines? Are there exclusives for these not available on the older lines? (Like the XE Game system) I want to avoid anything higher than Atari 800 because I wanna play Shamus (which from what I read, only works on the 400 and 800)

 

Do all computers support 4 controller ports/floppy drives/etc?

 

Lastly, any good 4 player games?

 

I just don't want to buy something and not be happy in the end.

Thanks!

Edited April 26, 2011 by Yart

[+Philsan]

Post for newbies

[Yart]

Cool! Thanks!

 

In that link I also found this: http://faqs.cs.uu.nl/na-dir/atari-8-bit/faq.html

 

Answered a ton of questions! (Specifically the NTSC/PAL deal, and I found that only the 400 and 800 have four controller ports)

 

As far as 4 player games go, a Google search brought me to another thread on this forum: http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/155696-4-player-simultaneous-games/

 

I hear you can upgrade an old 800 beyond 48kb correct?

 

The only thing I don't like about the 800 is the lack of BASIC built in.

 

But other than that, what makes the 800XL better than the 800?

 

Right now I'm leaning towards the 800 for sure.

 

Thanks again for the link!

 

 

EDIT: Though I'm having trouble on finding information on exclusive games to the later 8-bit systems. Will games made for say, the XE Game Console, work on older models given the correct RAM?

Edited April 26, 2011 by Yart

[+Philsan]

800XL is compatible with 99% of software (100% if you add an internal or external memory expansion).

800 has a much lower compatibility (but others forum members can reply to your question better than me).

[+bf2k+]

800XL will run more programs than the 800. It is also easier to expand memory on it. Definitely the way to go... or you could buy both!

[slyde]

As for 4 player games, there are a lot of good ones, but the one that i always think of first is DANDY... 4 player dungeon crawl (kinda pre-gauntlet). I love that game.

[svenski]

The 800 is a cool machine but as bf2k+ said, the 800XL is a better option to get you started. Maybe start with the 800XL and then get yourself an 800 for more retro Atari goodness.

[oky2000]

65xe? or is 800xl cheaper now?

[sloopy]

65xe? or is 800xl cheaper now?

 

usually 800XL are cheaper in NTSC land as they are very common... NTSC 65XE's are usually a little more since they are newer, but have KB issues like 130XE's as they have the same KB in them... but the 65XE also has the issue of its not a 130XE with just 64k ram like in PAL land, they dont have ECI port...

 

 

sloopy.

[+bf2k+]

65xe? or is 800xl cheaper now?

 

Welll... concerning 'Cheepnis' as FZ would say, The XE's are much more cheaply constructed than the XL's.

[JCat]

Other 4-player recommendations:

 

M.U.L.E

Warlords

Ali-Baba

Return of Heracles

[+Faicuai]

...It's certainly a TOUGH dilemma...

 

...In my case, I went from the 400 straight to the 800XL+IndusGT in Sept. 1984... and ever since then, I could never forget that slick-looking 800, which, quite honestly, has NO substitute. You will always keep it in the back of your head, without mentioning the fact that it is already listed in the Top 25 Personal Computers ever made in history (well deserved, by the way).

 

The former 800 ("Jay Miner" as I simply call it) oozes quality and craftmanship, all over it. It is made right here in the U.S.A., highly modular, user-accesible slots (for ROM and RAM boards), only system with two cartrdige slots at the heart of its massive Faraday-cage. On top of that, those units that are still in pristine condition fetch A LOT more than the 800XL.

 

Mind you that I have both (800 and 800XL), but there are some interesting projects here (not sure if they are active) that are aimed at enabling a host of benefits and enhancements (pro-quality) on the 800, thus making it capable of running almost everything the 800XL does (my point is I would not bet against future, high-quality upgrades for this special machine).

 

Anyways, best of luck, as you can't go wrong with the 800XL, which is the best, all-round of the XL series.

 

F.

[Yart]

Aight cool. Thanks guys!

 

I've been thinking of this for a while. Like I said I started with wanting a 800, then I eventually found myself loving the 400. But then I looked into the 800XL and, while I don't care for the way it looks, it's compatibility is really appealing.

 

Arg! Decisions decisions! At this point I'll take any of those three depending on which is the cheapest! (In the case of a 400, depending on how pimped out with extra RAM it is. For me, this option is the highest priority. I really love the 400's small and toyish/consolish design and I plan on sitting whatever Atari I get in front of my TV beside my other consoles)

 

I'll start looking next month when I'll finally have the funds. Turns out I'm busy on the exact day that computer museum is having it's garage sale (this one) so I can't make it. If anyone goes, could you pick me up a system if I PayPal'd money?

 

Aside from people going, anyone got any spare systems for sale? eBay is starting to get ridiculous in prices.

 

 

And thanks JCat. I'll check those out.

 

The first Atari 8-Bit games I want to get are:

Shamus

Alley Cat

Mail Order Monsters

Missile Command

Pacman

Donkey Kong

Joust

Moon Patrol

 

I'm already making a list! Hehe! I'm so excited to get into this system!

 

 

EDIT: Actually, speaking of pimping out with RAM, I can't seem to find any places to buy extra RAM for these things. Is RAM for 8-bit Atari systems rare?

Edited April 28, 2011 by Yart

[mimo]

You need a RAM upgrade kit unless you are going to do it from scratch yourself.

There are various upgrades available from a 32k plug in board for a 400, a 48k upgrade for a 400 that requires 4 wires soldering on the motherboard, both available from best electronics to 320k plug in expansions for the xl range and 1meg upgrades with RTC multiple OS's etc.

dont forget that the 400 only has rf output unless you mod it for s-video or composite.

as much as i love my 3 400s I would recommend an xl as a starting place if you can only have one system

[mimo]

FYI a 64k or beyond 400 or 800 would still not be able to use xl or xe games as it will not handle the extra RAM in the same way.

Also look at investing in an sio2pc device or sio2sd etc so you can play all the games on your list from the outset

[Yart]

Alright. If the extended RAM beyond 64k for a 400 or 800 restricts what I can run, I'll go with the XL.

 

...unless the XL can't play Shamus or Gorf.

 

Going by this list: http://my.execpc.com/~krieg/links/8bit.carts

It says they only run on the 400/800.

 

How can I tell if a game is for the XL/XE line and not for anything before that? I want to see if there's any games I wanted that fit that category.

 

If that's the case, I'm gonna have to save up for both a 400 and a 800XL. If I end up having to get both, I'll go for the 400 first solely because I really want to play Shamus that badly. Haha!

 

But yes, obtaining both is definitely an option, but one will have to come first.

 

 

Thanks for the heads up though about the RAM issue beyond 64kb.

 

 

I might get a SIO2SD later on if I decide to get serious into the system.

Edited April 28, 2011 by Yart

[mimo]

Those carts will only run on a 400/800 unless you add a multiple OS to an xl/xe.

The other option is an sio2xx device and then you will be able to play the cracked/fixed versions

[+wood_jl]

What you need (not too cheap) is the "Atarimax 32-in-1 O.S." (for XL or XE) that will give you the 400/800 O.S., plus a whole lot more.

 

If I had to choose ONE machine, it would be either 800XL or 130XE. Probably 800XL, and put in the 32-in-1.

 

edit: mimo's right - you can get cracked versions to play on the XL - from disk or disk image. If it's cartridges, you'd need the switchable O.S. but it is a nice thing to have, anyway.

Edited April 28, 2011 by wood_jl

[Yart]

Oh! So there IS a way to play them on the XL!

 

A loop I have to jump through, but definitely nice to know.

 

Alright! At this point it looks like it's going to be the XL if I can get one cheap enough. There's no way to expand the amount of joysticks from 2 to 4 though?

[+orpheuswaking]

What you need (not too cheap) is the "Atarimax 32-in-1 O.S." (for XL or XE) that will give you the 400/800 O.S., plus a whole lot more.

 

Or do a 4 in 1 os yoursefl

[mimo]

You can increase the number of joysticks with a multijoy interface, I have a 16 joystick interface, but the games have to be hacked to be useable with the multijoy. Cheaper and easier to get an 800 as well

I think you may struggle to get a copy of status on cart for less than $70

[Yart]

Cheaper and easier to get an 800 as well

Did you mean 800XL or 800?

 

 

Oh wow some of the games I REALLY want are more expensive than I thought!

 

Shamus I found one for $50 but it ends in 8 hours. I won't have the money for days. Haha!

 

Some of the other titles I want are making me raise an eyebrow too. Maybe that SIO2SD is a good investment...

[WizWor]

No love for the XEGS? My favorite atari (and I have a 1200xl). Good composite out for newer HDTVs. Great compatability. Attractive. And you can extend the keyboard cable for kicking back.

[svenski]

I like the XEGS too, but don't tell anybody I said that.

[JCat]

No love for the XEGS? My favorite atari (and I have a 1200xl). Good composite out for newer HDTVs. Great compatability. Attractive. And you can extend the keyboard cable for kicking back.

 

I'm in the same boat as the topic starter, though I'm opting for the SIO route. Despite my having owned every Atari back in the 80's, I never looked into the XEGS. Does this have the same I/O port like the XL/XE so that I can pop in one of SIO options that are available (without cutting, soldiering, destroying, screwing up etc.) anything? :-) I'm looking into the 800XL, but I kind of like the idea of the XEGS. Thanks!