A 5Kb. SIDsong how much would be on A8 POKEY?

[José Pereira]

Hi, probably a little difficult to answer without the song...

But in general a 5Kb. song of C64 SID (seems the normal/permition size during C64 games) would be how much kb. of 6502 code of A8 POKEY?

(a song like this one here played 'in-game':

 

Just a try/conversion of it into A8 how many Kb., but also how many cycles lost with the song?

 

 

Thanks.

José Pereira.

 

(P.s.- Emkay no )

Edited May 21, 2011 by José Pereira

[emkay]

 

(P.s.- Emkay no )

 

LOL

 

You should rename the title. I guess you don't want a SID song. You want a POKEY tune. Which means probably not to be recognised as a SID at all. Which may use 2-3K because you have to use much less commands for the sounds.

 

[José Pereira]

Emkay you always get me

That song we talked it's 5kb..

Now think you would try to get it into A8... yes, try to Emulate those C64 sounds.

Is this what I want.

 

Simple to understand, I think.

[Rybags]

You can't really do a direct comparison. Different trackers, different control methods etc.

 

Plus you're generally talking 3 voices being controlled vs 4.

[José Pereira]

Yes, but as you all know I am not a coder...

The idea is if a coder try to 'Emulate' that song into A8 POKEY (if he will need 2/3or4channels it's coder's territory)

 

 

More or less, not accurate, if I could know how many Kb. (and most important 'How many cycles lost in a song like this?)

The cycles is just for the 'in-game' screen Gfxs., screen width Mode, DLIs, PMs., soft sprite,...

[+Stephen]

Search for a demo called SIDPLAY. It shows full emulation of a SID song.

[José Pereira]

Just found it...

But seems very CPU intensive.

probably just playing songs...

Probably this way they couldn't be 'in-game' played.

 

 

testdisk.atr

Thanks.

José Pereira.

[emkay]

Emkay you always get me

That song we talked it's 5kb..

Now think you would try to get it into A8... yes, try to Emulate those C64 sounds.

Is this what I want.

 

Simple to understand, I think.

 

 

Hm.... interesting. You want someone to try to emulate those sounds, You know, I am the only one doing so, but want me not to write in the thread?

hm....

[emkay]

Just found it...

But seems very CPU intensive.

probably just playing songs...

Probably this way they couldn't be 'in-game' played.

 

 

testdisk.atr

Thanks.

José Pereira.

 

 

Ouch ouch ouch......

 

 

Ofcourse it is too CPU intensive for ingame music.

What do I have to do to make people understand WHY I always propose Hardsynth for mid and high range sounds/music, and Softsynth/DIGI for bass & drums?

[+Stephen]

Ouch ouch ouch......

 

Ofcourse it is too CPU intensive for ingame music.

What do I have to do to make people understand WHY I always propose Hardsynth for mid and high range sounds/music, and Softsynth/DIGI for bass & drums?

Code us up a 256 color Gr.7 intro with digi-sounds and multi-plexed sprites :D

[Sikor]

Just found it...

But seems very CPU intensive.

probably just playing songs...

Probably this way they couldn't be 'in-game' played.

Sorry, Jose, You are dumb. Try end ones from your project.

Yes, it can play in game. Look at "Nibble" by TeBe - he used Saint's player (Yes, SID Player) ingame. Yes, it's take many cycles. But this player is not native player for Atari. It is programing emulator of SID chip for Atari. So - in fully funcional mode - it must take many cycles. It translate music during play (native commodore SID voices), not use converted music. If you pre-convert music - you probably must use about 20-30% of CPU time max.

[emkay]

Ouch ouch ouch......

 

Ofcourse it is too CPU intensive for ingame music.

What do I have to do to make people understand WHY I always propose Hardsynth for mid and high range sounds/music, and Softsynth/DIGI for bass & drums?

Code us up a 256 color Gr.7 intro with digi-sounds and multi-plexed sprites :D

 

 

In my next life, probably

[emkay]

Just found it...

But seems very CPU intensive.

probably just playing songs...

Probably this way they couldn't be 'in-game' played.

Sorry, Jose, You are dumb. Try end ones from your project.

Yes, it can play in game. Look at "Nibble" by TeBe - he used Saint's player (Yes, SID Player) ingame. Yes, it's take many cycles. But this player is not native player for Atari. It is programing emulator of SID chip for Atari. So - in fully funcional mode - it must take many cycles. It translate music during play (native commodore SID voices), not use converted music. If you pre-convert music - you probably must use about 20-30% of CPU time max.

 

 

This so called "SID emulation" is nothing else than the right way to play Music on the Atari. Someone should build a tracker around this, remove the "SID overhead" and bring POKEY features in.

 

It's similar with hires graphics games. No one would code them on the A8. But, using a Spectrum Emulator for running them on the A8 is possible

[Tezz]

There are several methods for bringing SID music over to Pokey: recreation, emulation, interpretation, conversion.

 

Recreation: recreating the SID music manually for native playback via programs such as RMT, CMC for example.

 

Emulation: This is what most think of when talking about playing music written for the SID, a complete full on emulation such as SIDplay. SIDplay is a CPU intensive sample based SID emulator, cool to do but of limited use such as for title screens and simple intros. The method negates in game use.

 

Interpretation: This is the latter method mentioned by Sikor, the SID program is still included unaltered from the c64 but rather than full on emulation, the SID calls are patched through an interpreter in real-time for Pokey equivalent playback. The interpreter written by Saint includes numerous conversion tables to deal with SID wave conversion along the code so you have roughly 4k additional to the SID program. Like Sikor said, reinterpreting the c64 code is more CPU intensive than natively written code however it's not so intensive that it's completely unusable for games. Depending on the complexity of your game i.e. if wasting some CPU time is not an issue then this is an option for a labour free way to include SID music in your game.

 

Conversion: This is the ideal method however complicated and time consuming to do. The SID program is fully disassembled and rewritten for Pokey natively. This is the method I am working on with Chimera and others to follow.

Edited May 22, 2011 by Tezz

[José Pereira]

Emkay you always get me

That song we talked it's 5kb..

Now think you would try to get it into A8... yes, try to Emulate those C64 sounds.

Is this what I want.

 

Simple to understand, I think.

 

 

Hm.... interesting. You want someone to try to emulate those sounds, You know, I am the only one doing so, but want me not to write in the thread?

hm....

 

 

No, you and all can write here.

Just don't want that you start saying that this is not possible in the way we were talking in private.

This is just nº of Kb. and cycles...

 

If it fits in what we talked it's another thing

[José Pereira]

Probably a little bit out of Topic, but just discouver this:

BLADE RUNNER end on A8 by Poison

And the original:

[emkay]

Probably a little bit out of Topic, but just discouver this:

BLADE RUNNER end on A8 by Poison

And the original:

 

 

Belonging to a 4chn version, I still prefer this one ....

 

 

blade4bass.xex

[MrFish]

Probably a little bit out of Topic, but just discouver this:

BLADE RUNNER end on A8 by Poison

It was used in the game "Monex" by Matosimi.