Details of Dual-OS Newell RAMROD Board...

[+Faicuai]

Howdy!

 

 

This question is more geared towards those users of "Jay Miner"-800 (NOT about ANY of the XL series).

 

 

I have been researching for quite some time, and I can't really find a clear-cut answer: Does the RAMROD board for this machine comes WITH or WITHOUT Floating Point routines?

 

 

This board has a total of five main/large sockets, and the OS-N (replacement OS code provided by Newell) could come in 2x4K or 1x8K ROMs. In addition to that, you could get OMNIMON-chip (Machine Language Monitor) or OMNIVIEW (80-col. driver) also installed on the board, but unclear in which options, sequence or coexistence rules.

 

 

Now, was the user supposed to PULL OUT the FloatingPoint math code from Atari's OS board and insert it into any of the available RAMROD sockets? Or, on the contrary, were the FloatingPoint routines provided in any of the additional ROMs (like the Omnimon)? Or were you forced to buy the FP routines separately?

 

 

For those who are familiar with this particular board, many thanks in advance,

 

 

F.

[sloopy]

just so i knew what you were talking about, I just googled "Jay Miner"-800, and is this an Amiga 1000? cause i cant seem to find one... did see a couple pic's of the 2600...

 

if you show me what machine your talking about then maybe i could answer your question...

 

sloopy.

[+orpheuswaking]

So it's not just me?

[+Faicuai]

There's a univocal relationship between the older 800 and Jay Miner & team.

 

 

Really, really hard to miss, though.

 

 

Nowadays, when someone writes Atari800, it's hard to tell if it's about the HW or the emulator, unless seen in the context.

 

 

F.

 

 

NOTE: Do you happen to have the RAMRODs for the JayMiner-800? Or not?

Edited May 30, 2011 by Faicuai

[+orpheuswaking]

Sure, but currently there are only two people out of the entire a8 community who continue to use "jay miner 800"

 

convention states it's Atari 800, if you use atari 800 in the current topic context everyone knows what it means.

[sloopy]

There's a univocal relationship between the older 800 and Jay Miner & team.

 

 

Really, really hard to miss, though.

 

 

Nowadays, when someone writes Atari800, it's hard to tell if it's about the HW or the emulator, unless seen in the context.

 

 

F.

 

 

NOTE: Do you happen to have the RAMRODs for the JayMiner-800? Or not?

 

well one of them is an 800 by Atari, also called an Atari 800...

the other is Atari800 a program to emulate the 8bit computers from Atari...

 

i dont see the confuzzlement...

 

And the floating point routines are part of the OS, so any OS (original or after market), would include them...

 

sloopy.

[fibrewire]

Ya, it's mainly my fault, because of other references in this forum I used the term Jay Miner. I thought there was enough of a difference to specify, but I guess by all the negativity I received from the comment... The preferred form of education here at AtariAge is asinine ridicule. I don't think it's the user's fault though. There is no AtariAge 8-bit history section, so people need to come up with creative ways to rephrase the same thing several times so they don't lose interest in explaining what's obvious to them.

 

Calling something a Jay Miner is like calling it a Kevin McKinsey

[+Stephen]

Does this mean I have to start calling it my Jack Tramiel 130XE?

[+warerat]

Nowadays, when someone writes Atari800, it's hard to tell if it's about the HW or the emulator, unless seen in the context.

 

Not really, because there's that nutty little thing called a space between Atari and 800 and then that ambiguity is gone.

 

 

NOTE: Do you happen to have the RAMRODs for the JayMiner-800? Or not?

 

I have a RAMROD board for the Atari 800. The manual states you must pull your OS and FP ROMs from your OS board or jumper it for EPROM use.

[+Faicuai]

Sure, but currently there are only two people out of the entire a8 community who continue to use "jay miner 800"

 

convention states it's Atari 800, if you use atari 800 in the current topic context everyone knows what it means.

 

Convention is not only boring (at times) but also a tiny box for me, though. I perceive it as more of a "followers" theme.

 

 

F.

[+Faicuai]

Does this mean I have to start calling it my Jack Tramiel 130XE?

 

The point is simple: you CAN do it... although there is no "Atari 130XE" emulator, no alternate "Atar 800XL machine", etc.

 

As for me, you should, because Jack is THE man responsible behind the overall horrid quality of these machines.

 

Once you SEE the face and appearance of this little gnome, you wonder whether if Atari was eventually run by a "troll" taken out of a medieval horror story.

 

 

F.

Edited May 30, 2011 by Faicuai

[Mclaneinc]

Technically the 'common name' has bragging rights over a 'pet name', ' Atari 800' is the name its most commonly known as, anything else to most others may, depending on the name serve only as a confusion and therefore make giving help less possible.

[fibrewire]

It would be nice to get rom dumps of the Newell Ramrod board + schematics. I'm doing the same for the Corvus interface, Full-View 80, and ADS Integrater (If I ever get my hands on one). It would be nice if the hardware that started it all could live on. This IS a forum for retro-comupting, after all.

[+Faicuai]

Technically the 'common name' has bragging rights over a 'pet name', ' Atari 800' is the name its most commonly known as, anything else to most others may, depending on the name serve only as a confusion and therefore make giving help less possible.

 

 

There's evidence of the opposite on this very same thread, though.

 

 

F.

[+Faicuai]

Not really, because there's that nutty little thing called a space between Atari and 800 and then that ambiguity is gone.

 

 

...What an irony (!): just a tiny/weensy "blank" space makes the difference between a machine listed as "best 25 PCs made of all time" vs. a software-based solution that also emulates OTHER (and distinctively different) machines... Don't know but it sounds like it rather substantiates my point, though.

 

 

I have a RAMROD board for the Atari 800. The manual states you must pull your OS and FP ROMs from your OS board or jumper it for EPROM use.

 

Finally, an ACTUAL user!

 

First, thanks for the feedback. So how does the board lives to its promise of a DUAL operating system? 2 + 2 sockets for 8KB base code, and ONE shared FP routines (or utility such as OMNIMON / OMNIVIEW)?

 

Last but not least: do you see your mega-expansion kit will ever being a reality? 2 to 4 nice/clean solder-points is my upper-threshold for "clean install" classification, if that worries you. Also, money would not be a problem, either.

 

 

F.

[+Faicuai]

Ya, it's mainly my fault, because of other references in this forum I used the term Jay Miner.

 

 

You can rest assured you are absolutely at NO fault, here, of any kind whatsoever. Not historically, not semantically, not functionally.

 

 

This purpose-built machine is the product of the amazing work of a cutting-edge engineering team, led by Jay Miner, and there is NO OTHER machine (except the 400) in Atari's lineup that is so intimately and authentically connected to its true origins, as the original/classic 800 is (hence JayMiner-800).

 

And for the records, I had the 400, and also currently own the 800XL.

 

F.

Edited May 31, 2011 by Faicuai

[+warerat]

It would be nice to get rom dumps of the Newell Ramrod board + schematics. I'm doing the same for the Corvus interface, Full-View 80, and ADS Integrater (If I ever get my hands on one). It would be nice if the hardware that started it all could live on. This IS a forum for retro-comupting, after all.

 

Nothing to dump because all the board does is provide sockets to either:

- Customize your OS ROM to run off EPROM

- Plug in your stock ROMs

- Allow Omnimon or Omniview to co-exist with OS ROM

- Allow SRAM to populate the 4K hole

 

You could also conceivably break the XL OS down to individual EPROMs and run that, sans the RAM under the ROM.

 

So the ROMs have been dumped and already exist.

[+Faicuai]

It would be nice to get rom dumps of the Newell Ramrod board + schematics. I'm doing the same for the Corvus interface, Full-View 80, and ADS Integrater (If I ever get my hands on one). It would be nice if the hardware that started it all could live on. This IS a forum for retro-comupting, after all.

 

Nothing to dump because all the board does is provide sockets to either:

- Customize your OS ROM to run off EPROM

- Plug in your stock ROMs

- Allow Omnimon or Omniview to co-exist with OS ROM

- Allow SRAM to populate the 4K hole

 

You could also conceivably break the XL OS down to individual EPROMs and run that, sans the RAM under the ROM.

 

So the ROMs have been dumped and already exist.

 

 

...Even more thanks... But what about Newell's FP ROM? Where's that dump?

 

I understant the following config. is possible: Newell's OS-N (2x4KBs) + Newell's Fast FP ROM + {Omniview or Omnimon}... and then some dip-switching... or am I wrong?

[fibrewire]

Nothing to dump because all the board does is provide sockets to either:

- Customize your OS ROM to run off EPROM

- Plug in your stock ROMs

- Allow Omnimon or Omniview to co-exist with OS ROM

- Allow SRAM to populate the 4K hole

 

You could also conceivably break the XL OS down to individual EPROMs and run that, sans the RAM under the ROM.

 

So the ROMs have been dumped and already exist.

Any chance there is a schematic somewhere? Mr Small said if I could find the integrator, he could figure out how the latch he used worked on the ADS board. Maybe the Newell board would be useful to him.

[fibrewire]

Newell FastChip - eBay Auction -- Item Number: 390080732953

[+Faicuai]

Newell FastChip - eBay Auction -- Item Number: 390080732953

 

 

OOUUUCHHH!!!

 

Man, I do have plenty of cash but... that seems like a waste, though...

 

 

In the presence of the 800XL, I would rather load TurboBasic-XL and be with it.

 

 

F.

[+warerat]

So how does the board lives to its promise of a DUAL operating system? 2 + 2 sockets for 8KB base code, and ONE shared FP routines (or utility such as OMNIMON / OMNIVIEW)?

Yes its, two 8K EPROMs with shared FP and Omnimon/Omniview. But this requires additional modifications to the board and the manual has the instructions for it.

 

Last but not least: do you see your mega-expansion kit will ever being a reality?

Yep, its real and on my desk in the other room. There's interest but maybe not at the volume I'd expect to make a run of boards with a reasonable price point for all. Not to mention those who don't want to do any soldering. I could be wrong but I think there was maybe a dozen interested parties.

 

2 to 4 nice/clean solder-points is my upper-threshold for "clean install" classification, if that worries you.

I'm certainly not worried and I'm glad I don't use your criteria because it's more like six connections to the CPU board including the custom paddle board that goes under the cart plastic after pulling two ICs on the motherboard.

[+warerat]

I understant the following config. is possible: Newell's OS-N (2x4KBs) + Newell's Fast FP ROM + {Omniview or Omnimon}... and then some dip-switching... or am I wrong?

 

Yes, that's the configuration of my board, as seen here: http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=196093

[fibrewire]

Warerat: I've looked on the threads for schematics of the Newell board with no success, any chance you know where some may be? Also put me down on the list for two of your boards. Thanks for the picture!

[+Faicuai]

 

 

Yep, its real and on my desk in the other room. There's interest but maybe not at the volume I'd expect to make a run of boards with a reasonable price point for all. Not to mention those who don't want to do any soldering. I could be wrong but I think there was maybe a dozen interested parties.

 

I'm certainly not worried and I'm glad I don't use your criteria because it's more like six connections to the CPU board including the custom paddle board that goes under the cart plastic after pulling two ICs on the motherboard.

 

 

Thanks.

 

1. What would be reasonable price for you? $70? $90?

2. How reversible would it be? Do you have some pictures of the install requirements? Six connections is still manageable, but I know exactly what it means to reach the CPU caged-section, as well as removing the plastic component around the cart-sockets.

3. Any HW stability/timing issues to be concerned? Or is it a piece of cake?

 

BTW: any other way to have access to that FP-rom pack from Newell? Are you selling your RamRod?

 

GOSH, there's got be SOMETHING I can buy from you (!)

 

 

F.