sermajic Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 hi everyone was wondering how a super mario bross like game would be on the vcs, bobby`s going home is a great example, missed that game when i was a child, i`m beginning to appreciate it just now, great colours, lots of moving objects balanced gameplay but no lateral scroll can`t it be done on the 2600? vanguard has "nice" scrolling backgrounds! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorsten Günther Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Horizontal scrolling will always be (more or less) choppy on the VCS (as is the case in Vanguard) due to hardware limitations. Vertical scrolling is much easier (River Raid, Squish'Em and Pitfall II are good examples), so a Jump'n'Run on the VCS that scrolls vertically - e.g. in this style http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hwrjkgs5Mo should work much better. Thorsten Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
high voltage Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 (edited) Barnstorming and Grand Prix have some decent scrolling Edited June 3, 2011 by high voltage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Yeah, it's a shame, vertical scrolling is pretty feasible as opposed to horizontal being pretty choppy, I assume because the pixels are so wide and flat. So... why not program a game where you have a character who looks like he's lying on his back running up a wall to his right, then you just have to tilt your tv/monitor 90 degrees clockwise (or include a screen rotate option in an emulator, if possible) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0078265317 Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Horizontal scrolling will always be (more or less) choppy on the VCS (as is the case in Vanguard) due to hardware limitations. Vertical scrolling is much easier (River Raid, Squish'Em and Pitfall II are good examples), so a Jump'n'Run on the VCS that scrolls vertically - e.g. in this style should work much better. Thorsten Thaty looks cool, btw what game is that in the example. What platform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwane413 Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Yeah, it's a shame, vertical scrolling is pretty feasible as opposed to horizontal being pretty choppy, I assume because the pixels are so wide and flat. So... why not program a game where you have a character who looks like he's lying on his back running up a wall to his right, then you just have to tilt your tv/monitor 90 degrees clockwise (or include a screen rotate option in an emulator, if possible) Something similar has been done for the purpose of a 3D game. Video Game Critic's review of Merlin's Walls Partial quote: In order to "achieve the desired 3D effect" while playing the game, you must either tilt your head or your television by 90 degrees. The manual has some imaginative and unintentionally hilarious illustrated suggestions for accomplishing this. You can turn your TV on its side, or set it on its back like a tabletop! It says more at the link I gave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorsten Günther Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Thaty looks cool, btw what game is that in the example. What platform. That's "Captain Dynamo" (DOS version). The game also exists for the Speccy, though, so it doesn't need megabytes pf RAM or a fast CPU: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57kKdDWeiFA Thorsten Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maiki Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 There are games with smooth horizontal scrolling as well, mostly by Activision... So again, don't make general statements on what is or is not possible on VCS... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phredreeke Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 (edited) At best you can scroll the playfield at 4 pixel increments. See Super Cobra. Other horizontally scrolling games don't scroll the playfield at all (Barnstorming and Grand Prix as already mentioned) and achieves "scrolling" through movement of players. However for Super Mario Bros you can't afford to use players for the background, you'll need both for Mario and enemies. Hence no/choppy scrolling. Edited June 3, 2011 by Phredreeke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0078265317 Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Thaty looks cool, btw what game is that in the example. What platform. That's "Captain Dynamo" (DOS version). The game also exists for the Speccy, though, so it doesn't need megabytes pf RAM or a fast CPU: Thorsten WOW, that is pretty good graphics for DOS then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toptenmaterial Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 However for Super Mario Bros you can't afford to use players for the background, you'll need both for Mario and enemies. Hence no/choppy scrolling. What about Pitfall? There was at least one enemy per screen.... Well, I guess no Latiku then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schizophretard Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 A game could be designed for putting a TV on it's side. That way the limitation on scrolling would be solved and the game would have that tall screen arcade look like in this video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Can't be done!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+atari2600land Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Eh, it's been done. Or should I say, partly done. check this out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toptenmaterial Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Eh, it's been done. Or should I say, partly done. check this out. I certainly hope someone resumes this! Good stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phredreeke Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 However for Super Mario Bros you can't afford to use players for the background, you'll need both for Mario and enemies. Hence no/choppy scrolling. What about Pitfall? There was at least one enemy per screen.... Well, I guess no Latiku then. Pitfall didn't have scrolling. Pitfall 2 had vertical scrolling only (which is no problem) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toptenmaterial Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 However for Super Mario Bros you can't afford to use players for the background, you'll need both for Mario and enemies. Hence no/choppy scrolling. What about Pitfall? There was at least one enemy per screen.... Well, I guess no Latiku then. Pitfall didn't have scrolling. Pitfall 2 had vertical scrolling only (which is no problem) Oh, of course you are right. So I guess we'd be looking at a screen by screen game. I'm wondering how many moving sprites can be on one screen (latiku, hammer bros, etc)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tz101 Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Does Private Eye have horizontal scrolling? It has been a long time since I have played that game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maiki Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 At best you can scroll the playfield at 4 pixel increments. See Super Cobra. Other horizontally scrolling games don't scroll the playfield at all (Barnstorming and Grand Prix as already mentioned) and achieves "scrolling" through movement of players. However for Super Mario Bros you can't afford to use players for the background, you'll need both for Mario and enemies. Hence no/choppy scrolling. It's obvious that without tricks there's no chance on a system like 2600... But I can imagine the techniques similar to Barnstorming and Grand Prix could be used to create a Super Mario "clone"... obviously with limitations on how many pixels could be processed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phredreeke Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 (edited) Oh, of course you are right. So I guess we'd be looking at a screen by screen game. I'm wondering how many moving sprites can be on one screen (latiku, hammer bros, etc)? You can have 2 players (user defined sprites) per line. There are tricks you can use to repeat player objects multiple times on the same line but I'll leave it to someone more knowledgeable to explain how that works. You can also have 2 missiles and a ball, these are solid objects 1,2,4 or 8 pixels wide, and share colors with players and the playfield. It's obvious that without tricks there's no chance on a system like 2600... But I can imagine the techniques similar to Barnstorming and Grand Prix could be used to create a Super Mario "clone"... obviously with limitations on how many pixels could be processed... There aren't enough players for it. You'll need one for Mario and the other for goomba, koopa, whatever enemy you're gonna use. Edited June 4, 2011 by Phredreeke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maiki Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 First have a look at what Atari 2600 can do and then start talking about that you don't have enough players... I am quitting this topic because the discussion is becoming pointless loop... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sermajic Posted June 4, 2011 Author Share Posted June 4, 2011 Mega italian twins look awesome, Wonder if the machine is capable of that kind of scroling with some enemy sprites on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toptenmaterial Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 (edited) Oh, of course you are right. So I guess we'd be looking at a screen by screen game. I'm wondering how many moving sprites can be on one screen (latiku, hammer bros, etc)? You can have 2 players (user defined sprites) per line. There are tricks you can use to repeat player objects multiple times on the same line but I'll leave it to someone more knowledgeable to explain how that works. You can also have 2 missiles and a ball, these are solid objects 1,2,4 or 8 pixels wide, and share colors with players and the playfield. It's obvious that without tricks there's no chance on a system like 2600... But I can imagine the techniques similar to Barnstorming and Grand Prix could be used to create a Super Mario "clone"... obviously with limitations on how many pixels could be processed... There aren't enough players for it. You'll need one for Mario and the other for goomba, koopa, whatever enemy you're gonna use. So you're saying no way? This isn't my domain at all so please pardon me if my questioning seems redundant. Let's pretend for a moment that we are doing a hack of Pitfall and turning into Super VCS Bros or whatever. You have that white scorpion coming towards the player. But how many white scorpions (goombas) can you have on one screen? Can they in turn fire one or more projectiles (hammer bros, latiku)? I have read the specs about what you guys have determained the machine can and cannot do, I just don't don't have a point of reference. Kind of like someone who enjoys watching the stars enrolling in an advanced astronomy class involving all types of math. I will say this: I am surprised that we haven't seen an SMB homebrew port yet. My guess is that doing so is extremely difficult. Not only that, we haven't seen ports on ANY platform except the PC, and I would think that INTV, CV, 5200 etc might have the chops. But damn I would pay good money to get my hands on one with a nice colorful manual and box. I'd like to see one of our own create that product. Edited June 4, 2011 by toptenmaterial Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sermajic Posted June 4, 2011 Author Share Posted June 4, 2011 If its on the nes, i bet it can be done on the 7800 as well But we re talking 2600 version here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schizophretard Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Jr. Pacman is a horizontal scrolling arcade game but they made it a vertical scrolling game for the 2600 and it works nicely. He can move all over the screen with no problem. If they made it like the arcade game he would probably be in the center of the screen the whole time with the maze moving or he could move all over the screen but it would switch screens like in Pitfall when he gets to the edge. Now if they made a game variation for it that you could put your TV on the side then it would be horizontal scrolling arcade perfect. It looks kind of funky because of the score, ghosts, and toys facing the wrong direction but it is playable with the TV on the side as is. Give it a shot and see if it looks like Mario could work that way. If you made a Mario game for a sideways TV then he can move all over the screen, it would scroll smoothy horizontally. the real sides of the screen would be the top and bottom now. So. if Mario went down a pipe he would pop into another screen underground and if he climbed a vine he would pop into another screen in the clouds. I think it would work the best on a sideways screen with both methods of scrolling(Jr. Pacman and Pitfall) in the right places. I bet it would work great. I would like to see a huge more complex Donkey Kong with platforms so long that you are scrolling into other screens before you get to jump on the next platform. Have the barrels and hammers but some other goodies. Make the platforms randomly generated mazes where you can come up to walls if you go up the wrong ladder. Someone could turn it into an adventure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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