XF551 compatibility question

[MEtalGuy66]

I own, have owned, and have used and repaired MANY of each of those drive models discussed above.. As far as raw functionality and features, what it WILL DO, how easily it will do it, and how fast it will do it, the all-around best drive to have is a 1050 with a happy or super archiver. Most 1050s have reached the age now where they need the PSU circuits on the mainboard "refreshed" if it hasnt been done already. The vast majority of failures I see on 1050 these days are related to power issues at the mainboard level.

 

I've never owned an Indus GT with a ramcharger installed.. But Ive known those who did, and they could not even begin to do the things that could be done with the happy or super archiver 1050s, where custom software control of the drive is concerned.. I have owned a stock Indus GT, and it was a really kewl looking, (relatively)quiet, reliable drive for the whole time I owned it.

 

The XF551 has build quality issues for sure. If you own one of these, even if someone has "fixed" the bad solder joints at the SIO connectors, you should leave the SIO cables plugged into it, and just let them stay with that drive.. Plug/unplug them from the other end.. The XF551 mainboard is very weak, and there is no decent way to support the SIO connectors. Every time you plug/unplug an SIO cable from that drive, you are stressing the solder joints, and the copper pads/traces which are just laminated to one side of a poorly made single-layer PCB. The drive mechs are pretty robust. I have seen a few failures on the electronics on the Mitsumi mech, but pretty rare. And if the mech does take a crap, you can replace it with any 360k PC mech that will physically fit in the drive and connect up to the cables. The stock firmware sucks ass. Full of terrible bugs. If you get one, drop a HyperXF (or other replacement/upgrade firmweare) EPROM in it.

[+bob1200xl]

The issue for any drive is what sector size it should read and how does it know that. If it is reading the first 3 sectors, the XF551 will try 128 byte sectors first and switch to 256 byte sectors if 128 bytes fails. It does this all by itself. (this is why SD gives you a boot error when it tries to load - which goes away on the second attempt after it switches to DD, all by itself) In the middle of the disk, it will not switch.

 

Some DOSes get Status from the drives when DOS boots and any 1050 drive (D2:-D8:) that does not report DD at boot will not run/read a DD disk. In this case, you need to make a DD disk ready in the drive before you boot.

 

Anyway, I run XF551s and USD1050s in SD and DD under DOS 2.0s and 2.0D on 5.25 and 3.5 diskettes. It all works along with MyDOS and SD3.2d. But, it probably works better with a new ROM.

 

I don't know what your problem would be with your DD boot disks. It should at least read the first 3 sectors. After that, it's a crap game...

 

Bob

 

 

 

A stock XF551 reads and writes DD (256 byte sectors) just fine, although it takes some coaxing if you're using DOS 2.0.

 

It may be that your DOS is not set for DD. Is there a post in AA about your problem?

 

Bob

 

 

 

You need an XF551 to go with a 65xe, 130xe, or XEGS.

 

I prefer functionality above looks. Selecting a disk drive just for the looks is just stupid.

 

Seriously though, The XF without the HyperXF rom is slow and doesn't read double density disks.

 

A stock XF551 is faster than a stock 1050 and should read/write double density without problems.

 

Thats was a joke... Thats why the next line stared with "seriously though"...

And why would it be stupid to choose a matching accessory? Saying that is stupid, is what is actually stupid.

People chose matching accessories for most things in life.

 

And the XF with the stock atari rom doesn't read or write double density. I got one NIB from Best a couple months ago and went through all that...

 

Hi Bob.

 

The disks are self booting DD disks.

From here: http://www.mushca.com/f/atari/index.php?idx=6

 

So the stock XF may do DD through a DOS or software, but not by itself?

These disks auto boot fine on a 1050USD drive. Not on a stock XF.

[fibrewire]

The stock firmware sucks ass. Full of terrible bugs. If you get one, drop a HyperXF (or other replacement/upgrade firmweare) EPROM in it.

Is there a location where this rom and others are located?

 

I did find this thread with information about the HyperXF.

[Fox-1 / mnx]

Thats was a joke...

That's why we have smiley's. Just forget about it :-)

 

 

And the XF with the stock atari rom doesn't read or write double density. I got one NIB from Best a couple months ago and went through all that...

If you use the right DOS it should work. Never came across one that wouldn't. The fact I'm in a "PAL" country shouldn't matter also.

 

But I really think "stupid" is the right word when only selecting a device for just the looks. If I want to make a long ride with 5 people I'd take a Mercedes over a Corvette any time, even if the Corvette looks better.

[sloopy]

Thats was a joke...

That's why we have smiley's. Just forget about it :-)

 

 

And the XF with the stock atari rom doesn't read or write double density. I got one NIB from Best a couple months ago and went through all that...

If you use the right DOS it should work. Never came across one that wouldn't. The fact I'm in a "PAL" country shouldn't matter also.

 

But I really think "stupid" is the right word when only selecting a device for just the looks. If I want to make a long ride with 5 people I'd take a Mercedes over a Corvette any time, even if the Corvette looks better.

 

if three of those people are my kids, they are going in the trunk and we are taking the vette... especially if its a '60's vette ;'D

 

sloopy.

[svenski]

I never had any problems with my XF551s - as already stated they are DD drives, very quiet too.

[RodCastler]

Hi, I have an XF551 that seems to be working OK. I have only one Precision branded floppy left from back in the day, and it reads it smoothly even if I flip it.

 

However, I have been unable to format a single floppy coming from a brand new box of Maxell diskettes (most likely manufactured for PC use).

From SpartaDos, not a single format mode has worked, same for Dos 2.5.

 

Are these diskettes incompatible? I tried using a strong magnet to have these floppies forget they were made for PC, but no luck.

 

Any thoughts?

Edited September 5, 2011 by RodCastler

[kurtm]

Hi, I have an XF551 that seems to be working OK. I have only one Precision branded floppy left from back in the day, and it reads it smoothly even if I flip it.

 

However, I have been unable to format a single floppy coming from a brand new box of Maxell diskettes (most likely manufactured for PC use).

From SpartaDos, not a single format mode has worked, same for Dos 2.5.

 

Are these diskettes incompatible? I tried using a strong magnet to have these floppies forget they were made for PC, but no luck.

 

Any thoughts?

 

They're not high density, right?

[RodCastler]

They're not high density, right?

 

To be honest, I haven't checked. And most likely they are. Now, I don't remember HD diskettes were a no-no (although my memory is as old as any chip in the atari).

Wouldn't a powerful magnet take care of that?

[kurtm]

They're not high density, right?

 

To be honest, I haven't checked. And most likely they are. Now, I don't remember HD diskettes were a no-no (although my memory is as old as any chip in the atari).

Wouldn't a powerful magnet take care of that?

 

Nope. 5.25" High Density is an entirely different formulation. Requires much more power to write. And while I haven't played with cross-compatibility, I've seen plenty of folks who say trying to use SD or DD diskettes in a HD drive leads to heartache when the disk goes back to a non-HD drive. (I believe it had to do with the track width being much smaller, so the old tracks wouldn't be erased completely, confusing the non-HD drive).

[RodCastler]

Nope. 5.25" High Density is an entirely different formulation. Requires much more power to write.

 

Thanks! I didn't know that.

[RodCastler]

Humm, I just found out that I was able to format these disks in a 1050.

 

I also acquired some Double Density diskettes, which I could easily format with a 1050 but couldn't format with the XF551. It starts the format and after a minute it complains about not being able to read sector 1 and interrupts the format process.

 

This XF can read an entire pre-formatted disk but refuses to format anything, using any type of format.

I actually placed it side by side with a 1050 and even both can read every diskette I put into them, only the 1050 is able to format them all while the XF will not, regardless of the density or brand. I'm running out of ideas...

Edited September 13, 2011 by RodCastler

[+bob1200xl]

The XF551 reads the INDEX hole on the diskette when it formats. No other Atari drive (1050 or 810) does that. So, if the diskette is a flippy or has the index hole covered, only an XF551 will fail. The procedure for a format is to write all the sectors and then go back and see if you can read them. If the XF551 can't see an INDEX pulse, it just croaks without writing anything.

 

I would guess that your INDEX circuit is bad on your drive. (or, the controller could be failing - not as likely...)

 

Bob

 

 

 

Humm, I just found out that I was able to format these disks in a 1050.

 

I also acquired some Double Density diskettes, which I could easily format with a 1050 but couldn't format with the XF551. It starts the format and after a minute it complains about not being able to read sector 1 and interrupts the format process.

 

This XF can read an entire pre-formatted disk but refuses to format anything, using any type of format.

I actually placed it side by side with a 1050 and even both can read every diskette I put into them, only the 1050 is able to format them all while the XF will not, regardless of the density or brand. I'm running out of ideas...

[RodCastler]

The XF551 reads the INDEX hole on the diskette when it formats. No other Atari drive (1050 or 810) does that. So, if the diskette is a flippy or has the index hole covered, only an XF551 will fail.

 

I would guess that your INDEX circuit is bad on your drive. (or, the controller could be failing - not as likely...)

 

 

This looks like a pretty decent guess. Does the XF551 use the INDEX circuit for anything else than formatting?

[Bryan]

The XF551 reads the INDEX hole on the diskette when it formats. No other Atari drive (1050 or 810) does that. So, if the diskette is a flippy or has the index hole covered, only an XF551 will fail.

 

I would guess that your INDEX circuit is bad on your drive. (or, the controller could be failing - not as likely...)

 

 

This looks like a pretty decent guess. Does the XF551 use the INDEX circuit for anything else than formatting?

See post #5

 

The Chinon drive apparently won't even read without index pulses. The XF551 also doesn't work with "hard sectored" disks with multiple index pulses per rotation.

[+bob1200xl]

That seems strange... the controller and code are the same for a Chinon drive? The drive really has very little to say about reading, writing and formatting. About all INDEX is used for when reading is a timeout - something like 5 revolutions (INDEXes) with no Address Marker, or some such. And, this is all in the controller and code, not the drive.

 

If you had to wait for INDEX in order to Read, it would be pretty darn slow...

 

Bob

 

 

 

The XF551 reads the INDEX hole on the diskette when it formats. No other Atari drive (1050 or 810) does that. So, if the diskette is a flippy or has the index hole covered, only an XF551 will fail.

 

I would guess that your INDEX circuit is bad on your drive. (or, the controller could be failing - not as likely...)

 

 

This looks like a pretty decent guess. Does the XF551 use the INDEX circuit for anything else than formatting?

See post #5

 

The Chinon drive apparently won't even read without index pulses. The XF551 also doesn't work with "hard sectored" disks with multiple index pulses per rotation.

[+bob1200xl]

I don't think so.

 

Bob

 

The XF551 reads the INDEX hole on the diskette when it formats. No other Atari drive (1050 or 810) does that. So, if the diskette is a flippy or has the index hole covered, only an XF551 will fail.

 

I would guess that your INDEX circuit is bad on your drive. (or, the controller could be failing - not as likely...)

 

 

This looks like a pretty decent guess. Does the XF551 use the INDEX circuit for anything else than formatting?

[ijor]

This also belongs to some FAQ ...

 

That seems strange... the controller and code are the same for a Chinon drive? The drive really has very little to say about reading, writing and formatting.

 

It is the drive.

 

Older drives were very dumb. They didn't care about the index hole at all. The index signal was passed to the controller. Newer drives, including most HD drives, are smarter, they monitor the index signal. And if they don't see the index, they assume something is wrong and they don't become ready. If they don't become ready, they simply disconnect the read and write channels, no read or write can happen.

 

The floppy controller, in turn, can read and write (if configured correctly) without the index, but it can't format. The format operation goes from one index active edge t the next one. This is true for all Atari drives. But in older Atari drives the index signal is simulated by the board hardware. Atari decided, in its infinity wisdom, that being a double sided drive, this wasn't required for the XF-551.

[+kheller2]

Has anyone designed a happy like upgrade for the XF? I would love one with track buffering.

[Mathy]

Hello kheller2

 

There was a Speedy version for the XF called SpeedyXF. Problem was, it worked on some XF's but not all. And AFAIK the reason for this still isn't clear.

 

CU

 

Mathy

[RodCastler]

The Chinon drive apparently won't even read without index pulses. The XF551 also doesn't work with "hard sectored" disks with multiple index pulses per rotation.

 

Well, mine is a Mitsumi drive. Is there a mod that replaces the INDEX sensor with some fake pulse generated by relatively simple circuitry?

It will bee a good mod if it allows flippies on an XF551 drive at the time it helps me with the formatting issue.

Edited September 21, 2011 by RodCastler

[+bob1200xl]

Bob Puff, at CSS had an upgrade that did that, as I recall.

 

Bob

 

 

 

The Chinon drive apparently won't even read without index pulses. The XF551 also doesn't work with "hard sectored" disks with multiple index pulses per rotation.

 

Well, mine is a Mitsumi drive. Is there a mod that replaces the INDEX sensor with some fake pulse generated by relatively simple circuitry?

It will bee a good mod if it allows flippies on an XF551 drive at the time it helps me with the formatting issue.

[Mathy]

Hello guys

 

Bob's right about the other Bob. Click on this, then choose "XF551 Enhancer".

 

CU

 

Mathy

[sloopy]

Hyper XF rom also did this, no?

 

sloopy.

[31336haxx0r]

Probably a dumb question, but can't you just glue a small magnet to the spindle motor and detect the rotations with a hall effect sensor, completely bypassing the stock index hole circuitry? 3.5" floppy do it hall effect style (and that's where I got this idea from ).