Temple of Apshai Trilogy Maps

[Laner]

Hm.  Doing it that way introduces more oddities. Booting the Apshai disk directly in MiSTer seems to be a bit more stable.

[+MrFish]

6 minutes ago, Laner said:

Hm.  Doing it that way introduces more oddities. Booting the Apshai disk directly in MiSTer seems to be a bit more stable.

Too bad. It looks like emulation or the real thing are the ways to go.

 

[youxia]

I'm trying to figure out the release dates for Dunjonquest games for Apple II. Temple Of  Apshai seems the tricky one: Moby and Wikipedia say "1980", which sems to be based on magazine ads. In-game copyright and some other sources (probably based on this copyright) say "1979". 1980 seems more plausible to me, but Datestones of Ryn (a second game in the series) is said to be released in 1979 on Apple. So that's a bit confusing. Perhaps somebody has more concrete info?

[MarcoC]

On 10/15/2021 at 2:43 PM, youxia said:

I'm trying to figure out the release dates for Dunjonquest games for Apple II. Temple Of  Apshai seems the tricky one: Moby and Wikipedia say "1980", which sems to be based on magazine ads. In-game copyright and some other sources (probably based on this copyright) say "1979". 1980 seems more plausible to me, but Datestones of Ryn (a second game in the series) is said to be released in 1979 on Apple. So that's a bit confusing. Perhaps somebody has more concrete info?

The Apple ][ version of Temple of Apshai had at least two versions, which probably explains the different release dates.  I am not talking about the Trilogy version, but the original Temple of Apshai game itself.

 

I don't remember the release dates, but growing up I know I played two different versions.  One version had an intro with a crudely animated fight where Brian Hammerhand decapitates a giant ant, while the other did not.  Another difference is that command 'V' in the original version was 'volte-face' (ie, turn around 180 degrees), while in the newer version 'V' was 'vault' (as in pole vault), where the character would jump forward a very long distance at the cost of a large amount of fatigue.  I think I remember (but I am not 100% certain) that the updated version also showed the character moving forward step by step whenever you pressed a number, like what I believe the trilogy version does.  The original Temple of Apshai version (and expansions) simply have your character appear at the new spot.

 

Marco.

[DavidD]

Dumb question time...

 

I've always been curious about the Temple of Apshai games, but never got them ages ago...

 

If it wanted to try them out now, what's the "best" way to do it?

 

It sounds like the Amiga version contains the room descriptions IN THE GAME, which seems like a major advantage.  Do any other versions have "everything" necessary to play the game within the game itself?

 

I'm a bit surprised there wasn't a console port of this during the mid to late 80s.... or was there?

[Tillek]

10 hours ago, DavidD said:

Dumb question time...

 

I've always been curious about the Temple of Apshai games, but never got them ages ago...

 

If it wanted to try them out now, what's the "best" way to do it?

 

It sounds like the Amiga version contains the room descriptions IN THE GAME, which seems like a major advantage.  Do any other versions have "everything" necessary to play the game within the game itself?

 

I'm a bit surprised there wasn't a console port of this during the mid to late 80s.... or was there?

Sometimes, the best way, is the original way.... then compare it to a modern version.

[Bill Loguidice]

10 hours ago, DavidD said:

Dumb question time...

 

I've always been curious about the Temple of Apshai games, but never got them ages ago...

 

If it wanted to try them out now, what's the "best" way to do it?

 

It sounds like the Amiga version contains the room descriptions IN THE GAME, which seems like a major advantage.  Do any other versions have "everything" necessary to play the game within the game itself?

 

I'm a bit surprised there wasn't a console port of this during the mid to late 80s.... or was there?

The Amiga or ST versions are probably the most user-friendly, but certainly any of the updated 8-bit versions in The Temple of Apshai Trilogy would be good as well. I'd recommend staying away from any of the original versions of the game unless you have a genuine appreciation for the "primitive" games of that era. The originals really didn't take great advantage of the hardware. 

Although several hardcore computer RPGs did in fact get console ports, there was probably minimal appetite/fit for The Temple of Apshai trilogy on any of the consoles due to the relative complexity of the interface and other elements. There was of course "Gateway to Apshai" on cartridge for ColecoVision, as well cartridge versions for Atari 8-bit and C-64, but it's different enough that I wouldn't call it a true "Temple" experience (but can still be fun).

[leech]

2 hours ago, Bill Loguidice said:

The Amiga or ST versions are probably the most user-friendly, but certainly any of the updated 8-bit versions in The Temple of Apshai Trilogy would be good as well. I'd recommend staying away from any of the original versions of the game unless you have a genuine appreciation for the "primitive" games of that era. The originals really didn't take great advantage of the hardware. 

Although several hardcore computer RPGs did in fact get console ports, there was probably minimal appetite/fit for The Temple of Apshai trilogy on any of the consoles due to the relative complexity of the interface and other elements. There was of course "Gateway to Apshai" on cartridge for ColecoVision, as well cartridge versions for Atari 8-bit and C-64, but it's different enough that I wouldn't call it a true "Temple" experience (but can still be fun).

I love Gateway to Apshai.  But I always wondered why only three of the other games got updated for the Temple of Apshai Trilogy, and the others did not.  Project for some coder?  ?

[ballyalley]

18 hours ago, MarcoC said:

The Apple ][ version of Temple of Apshai had at least two versions, [...] One version had an intro with a crudely animated fight where Brian Hammerhand decapitates a giant ant [...]

 

Another difference is that command 'V' in the original version was 'volte-face' (ie, turn around 180 degrees), while in the newer version 'V' was 'vault' (as in pole vault), where the character would jump forward a very long distance at the cost of a large amount of fatigue.

 

I would like to try the Apple II version that has the animated scene with Brian Hammerhand decapitating a giant ant.  I've never seen that version of the game and I think a screenshot of it would fit in nicely with this thread.  Also, I wasn't aware of a "vault" command that makes your character jump far and (maybe?) over an enemy.  That's a neat idea, although it's not exactly an easy feat to pull off in dungeon. For one thing, where does one keep the pole vault pole?  In a gigantic backpack?  How the heck is someone wearing armor gonna pole vault?  I'd like to see that event in the next Olyimpics: the Full Plate Mail Pole Vault.

 

Marco, would you please point me to links for these two different Apple II versions of "Temple of Apshai?"  I'm not sure why, but I'm especially eager to see Brian chop the head off a Giant Ant.

 

Adam

[ballyalley]

14 hours ago, DavidD said:

I've always been curious about the Temple of Apshai games [...] If it wanted to try them out now, what's the "best" way to do it?

 

I'm a bit surprised there wasn't a console port of this during the mid to late 80s.... or was there?

 

An easy introduction to the Apshai games would be to play the Commodore Amiga or Atari ST ports, which both include, as DavidD already mentioned, the room descriptions in the game.  However, since you'll want the manuals handy anyway (they're full of background and other needed material), I would suggest playing either the Atari 8-bit or Commodore 64 version of "Temple of Apshai Trilogy."  The trilogy-release of the game is turn-based, rather than real-time, so it is quite different from the original BASIC releases of the Temple of Apshai games.

 

As a quick way to get started with any of the Apshai games, then the trilogy is probably the way to go to get started.  If you like it, then try the games written in BASIC.  If you do play the BASIC games, then I suggest playing the Atari versions, as those have the best graphics.  If you play the Amiga version of the game, then avoid using the mouse, as it slows down the gameplay considerably.  Also, avoid using the joystick to play the "Trilogy," as you get much better control using the keyboard.

 

There wasn't a console port of the "Temple of Apshai," but, as was stated by others here, there was the game "Gateway to Apshai," which plays quite differently from the original game.  There are some unusual ports of the game, such as the French conversion to the Amstrad CPC Computer, which you can read about in an earlier post in this thread, here:

 

https://atariage.com/forums/topic/183584-temple-of-apshai-trilogy-maps/?do=findComment&comment=3040319

 

I'm glad that people still stumble upon this thread that I started eleven years ago.  That sort of amazes me.

 

Adam

[ballyalley]

1 hour ago, leech said:

But I always wondered why only three of the other games got updated for the Temple of Apshai Trilogy, and the others did not.  Project for some coder?  ?

 

Epyx began having problems in the late 1980s and they went from RPG-like games (i.e. the Automated Simulation games) to more action-oriented games, mostly on the Commodore 64.  By the time Bridgestone Media Group bought the rights to their back catalog in 1993, the company only had a few employees left.  Bridgestone has been contacted a few timed by people that would like to revive the Apshai series, but Bridgestone has declined this idea.  You can read about this a bit more in some of the previous posts in this thread.  There is probably more to it than I've described here, perhaps Bill Loguidice can give us some more insight into this subject.

 

Adam

[leech]

4 hours ago, ballyalley said:

 

Epyx began having problems in the late 1980s and they went from RPG-like games (i.e. the Automated Simulation games) to more action-oriented games, mostly on the Commodore 64.  By the time Bridgestone Media Group bought the rights to their back catalog in 1993, the company only had a few employees left.  Bridgestone has been contacted a few timed by people that would like to revive the Apshai series, but Bridgestone has declined this idea.  You can read about this a bit more in some of the previous posts in this thread.  There is probably more to it than I've described here, perhaps Bill Loguidice can give us some more insight into this subject.

 

Adam

So weird, like even if they got some sort of royalty fee on some remakes... it is like all the hardware collectors that have stacks of rare hardware that they are never going to use, and will get trashed by their relatives when they pass.  Let the rest of us have some fun...

[ballyalley]

16 hours ago, leech said:

So weird, like even if they got some sort of royalty fee on some remakes...

 

I think that part of the issue with Bridgestone Media Group not allowing a follow-up to the Apshai games is that the company is "family friendly" and that they doesn't want to have that image tainted by having a game that could be gory.  This is just my personal impression.  You can visit the company's website to see what they're all about, here:

 

https://www.gobmg.com/

 

It should be noted that in 1996, with the release of the Atari VCS Starpath Supercharger games on the "Stella Gets a New Brain" CD, that the company did grant "Cyber Punks" the right to make a limited run of the CDs.  I think 300 of them were made at the time.  This was one of the first modern releases that I ever bought when it was first released, and I loved using it on my Atari console.  There was a second release of the CD that was slightly different.  I have both releases and if you haven't tried those Supercharger games than you're missing out on some good fun.

 

To bring this post back to the world of "Apshai," the Starpath game, "Dragonstomper," was on that CD.  That was also an RPG, although it wasn't at all similar to the Apshai series.

 

Adam

[+Stephen]

5 hours ago, ballyalley said:

the company is "family friendly"

Well, that's always guaranteed that companies such as Nintendo and WWF put out their best content, catering to the family friendly crowd.  Sound business advice!

[Keighn]

Very late reply:

 

In all levels of Apshai there are traps.  In upper reaches I recall the baby dragon is activated by hitting a trap where the shell is.  The spirit of GEB in the Monastery is similarly activated by a trap.  I played the c64 version so I can’t confirm if ALL versions activate the same.  I’m sure the village has such a trap and the cellar.  Basically, search for traps and activate it by stepping on it.  If you can make sure you walk well past it as you activate it so you can get a clear screenshot of the enemy activated.  GEB will kill you easily.  Even a mocked up alt with max stats and highest +armor is going to eventually get wrecked.  He’s like Zues on roids from the Phantasie 1 game.

[ballyalley]

On 9/3/2023 at 9:17 AM, Keighn said:

The spirit of GEB in the Monastery is similarly activated by a trap. [...] GEB will kill you easily.  Even a mocked up alt with max stats and highest +armor is going to eventually get wrecked.

 

Thanks for the comments.  I talk about Geb's Spirit in this post earlier in the thread:

 

https://forums.atariage.com/topic/183584-temple-of-apshai-trilogy-maps/?do=findComment&comment=3056734

 

I even wrote my own description for Geb's Spirit:

 

Geb's Spirit (Rooms 16, 19) - For no reason at all you've killed a peaceful monk in a chamber of Geb's monastery. Geb is not pleased by this and he gives you a brief visit... which lasts for the rest of your very short life.

 

I hope that someone has archived all of the material in this thread.  Looking back, it's hard to imagine how much effort I put into documenting and mapping this game and posting it into this thread and to other threads when I talk with other fans of the DunjonQuest games.

 

Adam