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ballyalley

Temple of Apshai Trilogy Maps

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Yeah, saw on eBay a few copies of some of the series on floppy that were unopened, but some were asking for 100+ for it. Too bad i already sunk a ton of money I shouldn't have into one of my other Jay Miner systems....

The key with Apshai is to be patient. It's not super well known, and if you wait, and are vigilant, you can get some great deals. For example, I picked up Curse of Ra and Keys of Acheron sealed for about $30 each. Gateway and Upper Reaches were both $50 each at conventions.

 

Plan on it taking several years and you'll get there. Well worth it for such a historic (and often forgotten) series.

 

That said... if you just want to play them, Atarimania has manual scans and there's a ton of info in this very thread. I'd recommend making a solid attempt on your own first and then look at the maps though. There's a lot to discover. Some of the later dungeons employ all kinds of mind bending tricks.

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On 8/19/2014 at 1:31 PM, ballyalley said:

No matter how many Antmen are destroyed, it is impossible to rid the lowest level of the monastery of them all. If the adventurer doesn't eventually run away, then the Antmen's colony will be the end to him.

 

 

 

 

In a personal message to me, @trapperkeeper that the Atari Compendium site says there's a total of 40 Antmen in room 46:

 

"It was thought that room 46 on level 4 of Upper Reaches of Apshai was filled with an unending stream of Antmen, but there’s a total of 40 of them.  {Scott Stilphen}"

 

You can read this and a few other hints that I didn't know about at:

 

http://www.ataricompendium.com/game_library/easter_eggs/a48/a48templeofapshaitrilogy.html

 

It's been while since I've booted up "Temple of Apshai Trilogy."  I've thought about making a video of playing the complete first level from creating a character to exploring the level.  I think it would be great to narrate the video with the room descriptions as the character roamed around from room to room.

 

Adam

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On 10/23/2018 at 10:55 AM, McDeath said:

I need to look at the Morlocs tower, dates tones of ryn, sorcerer of Siva, etc threads and see if they were mapped and deconstructed as well.

 

In the Morloc's Tower thread, you'll find that a good, working dump of "Morloc's Tower" was made by @zapsterx in October of 2020:

 

https://atariage.com/forums/topic/243239-dunjonquest-morlocs-tower/

 

Specifically, the disk image is in this post:

 

https://atariage.com/forums/topic/243239-dunjonquest-morlocs-tower/?do=findComment&comment=4662518

 

I made a document called "Dunjonquest: Morloc's Tower, Hints, Tips and Maps" in this post:

 

https://atariage.com/forums/topic/243239-dunjonquest-morlocs-tower/?do=findComment&comment=4698769

 

Here is a link to the post with the story of Brian Hammerhand from the "Morloc's Tower" manual:

 

https://atariage.com/forums/topic/243239-dunjonquest-morlocs-tower/?do=findComment&comment=4699566

 

Here is a link to my post of my video overview with narrated gameplay of "Morloc's Tower:"

 

https://atariage.com/forums/topic/243239-dunjonquest-morlocs-tower/?do=findComment&comment=4701921

 

Here's a direct link to the video on YouTube:

 

 

If anyone has any comments about "Morloc's Tower," it will make more sense to post them in the thread devoted to that game.

 

Finally, after playing this miniature Dunjonquest game, I realize (again) that there is so much more to the Dunjonquest universe that I have yet to explore.

 

Adam

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I have just finished reading the entire thread. A deep respect for ballyalley and the others for the work and dedication.

 

I am currently trying out the original TRS-80 version. I have tried out the Atari BASIC version.

 

What makes me curious is that I cannot find any analysis/documentation of the effects of the magical items. Has anyone figured out the actual effect of those items? Manual says they lose effect once you exit the dungeon except for the sword and books. Nevertheless, if we can know for sure what these items do, then it would motivate the dungeon exploration more. After all, if the magical items are bugged and don't have any meaningful effects, the treasure finding in the dungeon becomes a lot less meaningful, as you are constantly collecting golds (which has no use after you purchased plate mail) and useless items.

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I know this an Atari forum, but I played Temple Apshai on our family's Apple in 1980 and loved it. I recently stumbled across the IBM-DOS Apshai Trilogy on the Steam client ($3.99) and bought it, thinking I never got to play Upper Reaches or Ra and I might as well have accomplished something in the decades since high school.

 

It came without any documentation so I've been mining this thread for help. Just cleared all the levels and I'm happy to have the chance to play Apshai again, but the DOS version has a lot  of bugs. It doesn't track your experience so you have to level yourself up every once in a while (create a new character using your old attributes) or you'll suffer hugely at the hands of the tougher monsters. Also, I can't find a way to access the one-way doors and think they just never worked in the IBM version.

 

There are a few other unpleasant bugs, but I did want to thank everyone who posted useful info/maps/tips here. The DOS version is crippled, but it was fun to just download it and play it after all this time. Still a great, nostalgic, game.

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On 6/7/2021 at 4:31 PM, SirFingUSA said:

There are a few other unpleasant bugs, but I did want to thank everyone who posted useful info/maps/tips here. The DOS version is crippled, but it was fun to just download it and play it after all this time. Still a great, nostalgic, game.

 

I'm glad that you have been able to play the Temple of Apshai Trilogy again for the first time in about 40 (!) years.  I either didn't know, or I forgot, that the DOS version of the game is available on Steam.  I knew the DOS version had some bugs, but your insight into the additional issues was enlightening to me.  Thanks for posting here, as maybe now others can see the (it seems, well known) problems with the DOS version.

 

For those who are still interested, then you can download the game from Steam, here:

 

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1436930/Temple_of_Apshai_Trilogy/

 

Steam's description says:

 

"In this classic dungeon crawler, hack and slash your way through over 500 rooms with dozens of terrifying monsters. A true 1980s fantasy game, experience the frustrations and triumphs of the tabletop gaming inspired combat. Temple of Apshai is waiting. Silently lurking. Patiently waiting. For you."

 

There is a review on Steam left by "Magnus" on December 9, 2020 that goes into more of the problem with the DOS version of the game.  Here is Magnus' full review of the DOS release of "Temple of Apshai Trilogy:"

 

----------------------------------------

 

This version of the game is broken an unfortunately that seems to have always been true of the DOS build. Issues:

 

* No experience is ever earned meaning character progression is completely broken

* Combat is broken, the enemies do very little damage. Temple of Apshai is a punishing game and it's fairly common to die without a proper build and paying attention to health.

* The item values are broken. For example, there's a Copper Ingot in a hidden room on the first level that's normally worth 20 silver - this version gives 450 silver. With the combat system broken as well, it's trivial to walk in, pick up that copper ingot a few times and have enough money to get maximum equipment. That's not supposed to happen.

 

I never thought I'd give Temple of Apshai a poor review as I have good memories playing the C64 version back in the day, but what's released here is a very broken version. It's sad that they didn't catch this themselves with some basic play testing. After talking with some others in the DOS retro gaming community and checking original disks, the DOS version has always apparently been broken.

 

They should really replace with this another emulated version (C64, Atari 8-bit, Atari ST, Amiga) that actually plays correctly. This version is just broken and as long as they're offering the DOS version stay away. It's a shame because this is a classic RPG and any other version of the Apshai Trilogy would be worth playing.

 

----------------------------------------

 

I suppose the folks who run Steam must know about these issues with the DOS version of the game already, right?

 

Adam

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Anyone ever look into the Coleco Adam proto?

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5 minutes ago, Tempest said:

Anyone ever look into the Coleco Adam proto?

 

Back around the time when this thread started in 2011, I started a thread about the Coleco Adam prototype of "Temple of Apshai" here:

 

https://atariage.com/forums/topic/184191-colecovision-adam-temple-of-apshai-trilogy/

 

If you haven't seen the thread here on AtariAge before now, then read it; you'll enjoy it.  The discussion lasted a few weeks and, much like this thread, probably has some of the most information covering this role playing game.

 

Adam

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12 hours ago, ballyalley said:

 

Back around the time when this thread started in 2011, I started a thread about the Coleco Adam prototype of "Temple of Apshai" here:

 

https://atariage.com/forums/topic/184191-colecovision-adam-temple-of-apshai-trilogy/

 

If you haven't seen the thread here on AtariAge before now, then read it; you'll enjoy it.  The discussion lasted a few weeks and, much like this thread, probably has some of the most information covering this role playing game.

 

Adam

Another bit we still need to dive into is Morloc's Tower, now that we have a working ROM. I also spent some time playing the two Rigel games and CC&C last time I dove into Apshai. The latter Rigel game is an interesting strategy hybrid, while the former is great for bite sized sessions. It has a lot more randomization too, making it much more replayable than some of the other stand alone, one dungeon Apshai games. I should really dig them out and add some detailed descriptions or a guide. I got pretty good at Rescue.

I also found that Altirra basic makes CC&C a muuuuch more playable game these days, it's no longer dog slow.

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4 hours ago, Lord Thag said:

Another bit we still need to dive into is Morloc's Tower [...] I also spent some time playing the two Rigel games and CC&C last time I dove into Apshai. [...] I also found that Altirra basic makes CC&C a muuuuch more playable game these days, it's no longer dog slow.

 

I did take a close look at Morloc's Tower.  I wasn't thrilled by the game-- though that's not to say I didn't like it; it's just quite different from "Temple of Apshai."  Well, it's meant to be different.  I mentioned it in this thread back in December 2020:

 

https://atariage.com/forums/topic/183584-temple-of-apshai-trilogy-maps/?do=findComment&comment=4701937

 

Other than loading one of the Starquest games, I don't have any true gameplay experience with either of them ("Rescue at Rigel" or "Star Warrior").  I also haven't played "Crush, Crumble and Chomp!"  I prefer games with fixed maps, for they can be mapped.  If you're reading this thread, then you probably know I like to map games...

 

I haven't tried Altirra BASIC-- indeed, I wasn't even aware of it until you mentioned it here!  I'll have to give it a whirl.  I have played the original "Temple of Apshai" game that was written in Atari BASIC using Turbo BASIC XL on real hardware and it plays much faster and smoother.  The original game wasn't too slow to begin with upon its release (compared to the TRS-80 version, the game is lightning fast!), but giving the Atari BASIC "Apshai" a slight boost in speed is nice.  Especially if you're used to playing it in the Trilogy, where it plays faster (and differently).

 

I also just noticed that there is an in-progress (as of 2019, I think) homebrew for the Atari 2600 called  "Lost Dunjonquest: Apshai."  The bits of footage I've found for it make it seem like a game more inline with "Gateway to Apshai."  I tried to find a thread for this homebrew game without success.

 

One day I'll re-visit "Sorcerer of Siva" on the Apple II, but I wasn't thrilled by it when I dipped my toe into the game using emulation.  I really don't remember a thing about it.

 

Adam

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25 minutes ago, ballyalley said:

 

I did take a close look at Morloc's Tower.  I wasn't thrilled by the game-- though that's not to say I didn't like it; it's just quite different from "Temple of Apshai."  Well, it's meant to be different.  I mentioned it in this thread back in December 2020:

 

https://atariage.com/forums/topic/183584-temple-of-apshai-trilogy-maps/?do=findComment&comment=4701937

 

Other than loading one of the Starquest games, I don't have any true gameplay experience with either of them ("Rescue at Rigel" or "Star Warrior").  I also haven't played "Crush, Crumble and Chomp!"  I prefer games with fixed maps, for they can be mapped.  If you're reading this thread, then you probably know I like to map games...

 

I haven't tried Altirra BASIC-- indeed, I wasn't even aware of it until you mentioned it here!  I'll have to give it a whirl.  I have played the original "Temple of Apshai" game that was written in Atari BASIC using Turbo BASIC XL on real hardware and it plays much faster and smoother.  The original game wasn't too slow to begin with upon its release (compared to the TRS-80 version, the game is lightning fast!), but giving the Atari BASIC "Apshai" a slight boost in speed is nice.  Especially if you're used to playing it in the Trilogy, where it plays faster (and differently).

 

I also just noticed that there is an in-progress (as of 2019, I think) homebrew for the Atari 2600 called  "Lost Dunjonquest: Apshai."  The bits of footage I've found for it make it seem like a game more inline with "Gateway to Apshai."  I tried to find a thread for this homebrew game without success.

 

One day I'll re-visit "Sorcerer of Siva" on the Apple II, but I wasn't thrilled by it when I dipped my toe into the game using emulation.  I really don't remember a thing about it.

 

Adam

Yeah, I've been in and out of this thread for years, you may remember some of the stories I posted way back about my experiences with the games. This thread got me hooked on them, and I have everything but Moreloc's Tower in the box pretty much due to this thread. I'd previously overlooked the series.

While CC&C is a very different beast (basically a whole new game using the Apshai engine, which is much better using a newer basic that gets rid of Atari's shit floating point routines), Rescue at Rigel and it's sequel, Starquest, are very much Apshai games.

Rescue is like an evolved, sci fi sequel to something like Datestones of Ryn or Danger in Drindisti, only I find it a bit more fun. It's a bite sized quest, where you're playing the Admiral from the earlier Epyx Orion games, Sudden Smith, at an earlier point in his career. Basically, you're infiltrating a randomly generated enemy base, rescuing the captured prisoners, and getting out alive as quick as you can. You're given a rating at the end of the game. The dungeon and the prisoner location are different each game, and there are multiple difficulty levels as well. It's pretty fun, and feels more polished than some of the other 'one off' games in the series. It also has a different weapons system which forces you to use dwindling energy reserves to power shields and/or ranged weapons, as well as a death ray thing with limited power. I'd highly recommend you revisit at least this game. It's very much an Apshai game in sci fi clothes. Interestingly, most of the map room sections stay the same, they just can connect one of several ways each game, but the hidden exits and whatnot stay the in same spots -they just connect differently. So you could map this one, detail each 'section', doors etc. Given the number of secrets, hidden teleporters, and unexpected exits, this would probably be super helpful.

 

Star Warrior is a different beast. It carries over some of the combat systems from Rigel, but it's trying to be a strategy/rpg hybrid. The goal in each scenario, and there are several, is to cause as much destruction as possible (you're a crack elite unit on a battlefield) to one of the several maps included, while traveling north towards your target. Combat is mostly against infantry and tanks and other military units. It's an interesting idea... but to samey to make a good rpg, and given that your just one unit, it's not a terrible compelling strategy game either. It's an interesting hybrid, but more for historical value than fun. It feels very half baked. That said, no random maps here. Each outdoor area is the same, and the game actually comes with cards depicting each. I may need to give this one more of a chance, I only have a first impression.

CC&C is more of a 'movie monster simulator'. You pick (or create) a godzilla-style giant monster and see how much of a major metropolis you can demolish. With a more modern basic, it's fairly quick to play too. The game is pretty tactical and fun, with a lot of variety between monster abilities. Each city has it's own dedicated map too. Fun game, but it's about as far from Apshai as can be. 

Thanks for the Morloc link, I missed that post, I'll check out your pdf.

 

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Didn't I see somewhere that Gateway to Apshai dungeons had also been mapped out?  I have never finished that game,

even though I modified my game to give you 254 lives at the start.

 

DavidMil

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9 minutes ago, DavidMil said:

Didn't I see somewhere that Gateway to Apshai dungeons had also been mapped out?  I have never finished that game, even though I modified my game to give you 254 lives at the start.

 

I think that you're probably talking about this utility on Kroah's Game Reverse Engineering Page:

 

http://bringerp.free.fr/RE/Gta/news.php5

 

Is this what you're talking about?

 

Adam

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On 7/15/2021 at 1:43 PM, Lord Thag said:

Yeah, I've been in and out of this thread for years, you may remember some of the stories I posted way back about my experiences with the games. This thread got me hooked on them, and I have everything but Moreloc's Tower in the box pretty much due to this thread. I'd previously overlooked the series.

 

Sure, I remember you "Lord Thag."  I've enjoyed all of your contributions to these couple of Apshai threads over the last, gulp!, decade (how is that even possible?!?).  It's fascinating to learn that you have all of the Dungonquest games in their boxes-- except Morloc's Tower-- because of this thread.  I wouldn't have expected that to happen.  Over the years this thread has grown from a simple place for me to post a couple of maps into a place where people sometimes discuss their memories of the game.  Since you have all but one of the games, maybe you can show us your Apshai collection in a video.  I'd love to see that video posted here.

 

Adam

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On 7/21/2021 at 8:19 PM, ballyalley said:

 

Sure, I remember you "Lord Thag."  I've enjoyed all of your contributions to these couple of Apshai threads over the last, gulp!, decade (how is that even possible?!?).  It's fascinating to learn that you have all of the Dungonquest games in their boxes-- except Morloc's Tower-- because of this thread.  I wouldn't have expected that to happen.  Over the years this thread has grown from a simple place for me to post a couple of maps into a place where people sometimes discuss their memories of the game.  Since you have all but one of the games, maybe you can show us your Apshai collection in a video.  I'd love to see that video posted here.

 

Adam

I know right? The fact that I've been posting here on AA for almost ...(ulp)... twenty years now is mildly terrifying lol.

This thread is one of those rare ones that sparked an interest that turned into a gaming focus. I've always liked classic RPGs, and I've had an Atari 8 bit hooked up in my home, wherever that was at the time, since 1990. I had fun with the system as a kid, and I enjoy seeing where RPG games all started.

 

Apshai, for whatever reason, was something I always wanted to try but never did back in the day. I believe I encountered it in a book of Apple II game reviews that I 'forgot' to turn into the Library as a kid. This thread got me to actually boot it and play it, and I was surprised at how easy it was to get into. Many old RPGs are pretty arcane, even once you learn the weird control schemes, but Apshai is just simple and accessible enough to pick up and play, if you can look past the crude character creation and town, and the awkward controls. I liked the room descriptions and the huge, puzzle filled maps. I strangely found myself playing it after work every day until I'd completed the whole original trilogy. That's never happened before.

I never expected to get them all in box, but I started looking and frankly, got very lucky. I got Ra and Acheron sealed for $50 or so each, having found two ebay auctions with bad titles that no one else bid on. I picked up Temple and Upper Reaches at PRGE, and Drindisti and the same booth a year later. The rest I hunted down on ebay, the last one being Hellfire Warrior, which took ages to find at a reasonable price. Never thought I'd see them all for sure. I'll post a pic or two once I get home, as I've been out of town on vacation.

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I posted this same question before, but now I see that the thread is running again, please allow me to ask again.

 

Does anyone (especially ballyalley) know about the effects of the magic items, besides the obscure explanation on the manual? I know that the Magic Sword enhances your current weapon (Magic Sword itself is not a weapon), and I also know that the Magic Book raises one of your attributes (the attribute depends on the version). But I am not too sure what the other items do.

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2 hours ago, Iori said:

Does anyone [...] know about the effects of the magic items, besides the obscure explanation on the manual?

 

I talk about some of the magic items through-out this thread.  For instance, I talk about what the Magic Book does on the Atari 8-bit here:

 

https://atariage.com/forums/topic/183584-temple-of-apshai-trilogy-maps/?do=findComment&comment=3045392

 

Later, as I was making the maps, when I noticed what a treasure did, I noted it directly on the map.  For instance, see the map for Upper Reachers of Apshai, Level 4, where, the Stale Bread raises the Constitution and the the Statue's Empty Hand raises intuition:

 

Temple%20of%20Apshai%20Trilogy%20(Upper%


On the "Curse of Ra," Level 1 map, I note that the Glyphstone raises Intelligence +1:

 

Temple%20of%20Apshai%20Trilogy%20(Curse%

 

Most of my later Apshai maps, when I could figure it out, explain what a treasure does if it affects the player's character.

 

I hope that helps you, "Iori."  Have fun exploring all of the areas of Apshai.  Please, tell us about your adventures.

 

Adam

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On 8/10/2021 at 4:43 AM, ballyalley said:

 

I talk about some of the magic items through-out this thread.  For instance, I talk about what the Magic Book does on the Atari 8-bit here:

 

Thank you for your reply Adam. However, I was rather referring to the Boots, Cloak, Talisman, and the Skull Ring in the Temple of Apshai. I am sorry I did not make myself clear. These items only have very vague explanations of them in the manual, if not any. I was playing the original TRS-80 version of Temple of Apshai, so it could definitely be different from the Trilogy Versions. As for the Magic Book, at least in the TRS-80 version, it raises Constitution. It makes sense because Wraith saps your constitution through chills. For some reason, in the TRS-80 version, Wraith are Wraiths in the manual, but it is "Wights" in-game.

 

By the way Adam, in the original TRS-80 version, "centipedes" can be encountered at Level 1, Room 54 and 55. They appear when you come adjacent to the treasure chest. Spiders can also be encountered at Level 1 Room 55. Maybe they have been deleted in the Trilogy, but these are their original locations. Spiders hit VERY HARD but their HP is low. I am guessing it's a D&D thing.

 

I was also wondering if anyone has made any good use of the ability to "speak" to monsters. On TRS-80, at Intelligence, Intuition, and Ego at 18, "speaking" always worked on the centipede, and sometimes worked on Antman and Giant Spiders,and that's it. It never worked on other monsters. I think it never works on the "strong" Antman, but on TRS-80, you cannot exactly tell the difference between the different types of Antman, other than guessing from the damage you receive. I did notice there were "ANTMAN" and "ANT MAN", but it seemed like this didn't have anything to do with the type of Antman.

 

Also regarding the Magic Sword (pardon me if this has already been mentioned). I am not sure if this applies to the Trilogy, but I am guessing it does to the original Atari and C64 versions. Magic Sword is not a weapon on its own, but it is an "enhancement" to the weapon that you already had. Thus, if you had Great Sword prior to obtaining the Magic Sword, you would still not be able to equip a shield. The enhancement level is randomly between +0~+2, and it rewrites any previous enchantment that you could have had. The message says the sword "glows" when the enchantment is either +1 or +2. If you pick up +0, then your weapon name goes back to the original weapon on the game-screen. I owe this knowledge to Ahab at Data Driven Gamer.

 

My experience points is now at 150,000. I have read articles and comments regarding the leveling system, and they say that the experience DOES influence combat (at least in the C64 BASIC version), but I wonder how much the actual influence is. It is really hard to tell if your character has gotten stronger through those experience points.

Edited by Iori

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On 8/22/2021 at 1:00 PM, Iori said:

 

Thank you for your reply Adam.

 

Thanks for the thoughtful comments here.  I like to see people who wander into this thread who are either playing the game for the first time or revisiting.  It looks like you have prior experience with the game.  Is that right?

 

I have been waiting to reply to this post because I wanted to play the TRS-80 version of the Temple of Apshai to check a few things, but it's obvious to me now that I'm not going to do that anytime soon.  Rather than keep my reply on the back burner and never getting to it, I thought that I would throw in my comments now.

 

Part of the beauty of the Apshai games is the vagueness.  I didn't used to feel this way when I was playing the game back in the 1980s.  Back then, I wanted stats.  I wanted numbers.  I wanted power ups.  I wanted more equipment to buy.  I wanted to know when I leveled up.  Upon revisiting the game, I still wanted all that extra baggage.  The simplicity of the game came to me when I was playing the first edition rules of AD&D a couple of years ago.  Normally, back in the 1980s, I was dungeon master.  This time, during our extended adventure, I was a player.  I had forgotten how much of the rule-set is meant to only be known by the dungeon master.  The Temple of Apshai games tend to keep it that way.  There is an air of mystery.  You pick up boots.  What do they do?  You don't know.  You pick up a Skull Ring and put it on.  Nothing happens.  What does it do?  You don't know.  That is the way of the early role-playing games and Apshai games molds themselves after that system.

 

Having said that I admire this "unknowingness" about the Apshai games, I'm going to do an about-face and say that keeping secrets from the player in the world of tabletop role-playing games works pretty well because the dungeon master is able to fill in gaps and give explanations that an early CRPG cannot possibly do for the player.  For instance, the DM might say to the player who places the Skull Ring on his character's finger, "You're not sure, but you do feel a bit different."  This is a clue that perhaps the DM can fill in as the game progresses over the course of an hour or two or even over the course of weeks.

 

You mentioned the centipedes and give an explanation of which level and room they are found in the game.  I suppose I must have asked about this in an earlier post in this thread, perhaps many years ago.  If that is so, then I have forgotten.

 

I would try to speak to the monsters when I first played the game.  It does work on some of them.  Rather than attacking you, they let you pass by them.  Unless I'm down to my last few hit points, then I don't bother with this method of gameplay.  After all, a friendly Antman and a nasty Antman are worth the same amount of experience points.  How many experience points?  I have no idea!

 

Thank you for filling in the details about how the magic system works for swords.  I was not aware of this fact until now.  I guess I always have a sword when I play the game.  What happens if the player doesn't have one in their possession?

 

You credit Ahab at Data Driven Gamer with this information about the sword magic.  Could you please link to this information please?

 

I would say that in The Temple of Apshai Trilogy, experience certainly influences combat.  There are some creatures, I think, that can't be hit if you are a low level character.  Don't ask me about the details here, because, as I've mentioned here before, I mostly attack the creatures using either arrows or magic arrows.

 

Someday, maybe a group of people will fully document the Apshai games.  In the meantime, much of the game will remain a mystery.

 

Adam

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14 hours ago, ballyalley said:

It looks like you have prior experience with the game.  Is that right?

Hi Adam. Thank you for you response. I have recently played the TRS-80 version extensively. I found this thread during that. I have also played a little bit of the Atari version (Original). I don't have experience playing this game back in the 70s or the 80s.

 

14 hours ago, ballyalley said:

I have been waiting to reply to this post because I wanted to play the TRS-80 version of the Temple of Apshai to check a few things, but it's obvious to me now that I'm not going to do that anytime soon.

 

I have mapped all 4 levels of the TRS-80 version, with treasures and traps. I also recorded the weight of each treasure. If you need to know anything about the TRS-80 version, maybe I can help you.

 

14 hours ago, ballyalley said:

You pick up boots.  What do they do?  You don't know.  You pick up a Skull Ring and put it on.  Nothing happens.  What does it do?  You don't know.  That is the way of the early role-playing games and Apshai games molds themselves after that system.

I do admit that I am quite obsessed with numbers and data. However, the primary reason that I want to know the function of these obscure items is that it could be very likely to be bugged. In any CRPG, the chance that a function or a feature of an item, skill, etc is bugged is quite high. In the Temple of Apshai, I would religiously go for the Magic Cloak first (if there is one on the level) before exploring other parts of the level, hoping that it has some effects. But I would be devastated if the Magic Cloak is bugged and is dysfunctional. LOL

 

14 hours ago, ballyalley said:

You mentioned the centipedes and give an explanation of which level and room they are found in the game.  I suppose I must have asked about this in an earlier post in this thread, perhaps many years ago.  If that is so, then I have forgotten.

It was when you were comparing monster graphics from different platforms, and you could not find the centipedes and the spider in any of the platforms.

 

14 hours ago, ballyalley said:

I would try to speak to the monsters when I first played the game.  It does work on some of them.  Rather than attacking you, they let you pass by them.

On the TRS-80 version, with INT 18, it only worked sometimes on Antmen and Giant Spiders, and it worked every time on the centipedes. Sadly, it never worked on other monsters. Maybe I tested around 30~50 times against each monsters.

 

14 hours ago, ballyalley said:

I guess I always have a sword when I play the game.  What happens if the player doesn't have one in their possession?

You credit Ahab at Data Driven Gamer with this information about the sword magic.  Could you please link to this information please?

From what I read at Data Driven Gamer, you would gain enhancement on your "fist". But it would still be shown as "Magic Sword" on the menu.

 

Here is the link to Ahab's post on Temple of Apshai. https://datadrivengamer.blogspot.com/2020/07/game-202-dunjonquest-temple-of-apshai.html

Here is the link to the page discussing the mechanism of Magic Sword. https://datadrivengamer.blogspot.com/2020/07/temple-of-apshai-not-satisfied-with.html

 

Again, thank you for your response Adam. And I commend you for all the work you have done throughout this thread.

Edited by Iori

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4 hours ago, Iori said:

Here is the link to Ahab's post on Temple of Apshai.

 

https://datadrivengamer.blogspot.com/2020/07/game-202-dunjonquest-temple-of-apshai.html

 

 

This Data Driven Gamer blog site is full of Apshai information.  Thanks for the link.  I've browsed one Apsahi article and then I realized that the TRS-80 version of these other Dunjonquest games are covered in detail (some in multiple parts):

 

    Dunjonquest: Temple of Apshai [P1] [P2] [P3]

    Dunjonquest: The Datestones of Ryn

    Dunjonquest: Morloc's Tower

    Dunjonquest: Hellfire Warrior [P1] [P2] [P3]

    Dunjonquest: Upper Reaches of Apshai

    The Keys of Acheron

 

I'll read these over the next few weeks; these are meaty articles and there are new maps in them.

 

I played the TRS-80 Temple of Apshai game under emulation several years ago.  I was surprised about its slow drawing speed, but I guess all of the BASIC versions of Apshai are slow.  That's one reason I like playing the Trilogy better: it's faster, plus it's turn-based.  I wonder why "Ahab" doesn't try some of the other versions of the games.

 

Adam

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24 minutes ago, ballyalley said:

This Data Driven Gamer blog site is full of Apshai information.  Thanks for the link.  I've browsed one Apsahi article and then I realized that the TRS-80 version of these other Dunjonquest games are covered in detail (some in multiple parts):

I should have told you that he has articles on other dunjonquest games as well, knowing that you are into the whole series. My bad. But I am glad you found it and liked it.

8 minutes ago, ballyalley said:

That's one reason I like playing the Trilogy better: it's faster, plus it's turn-based.  I wonder why "Ahab" doesn't try some of the other versions of the games.

The original BASIC versions of Temple of Apshai is technically turn-based as well, but with a time-limit. Yes, the speed is horrible. I play a little at authentic speed to get the feel of the actual game play back in 1979. After that, I crank up the emulator speed by x3, and set the combat speed to Slow. For some reason, when I crank it up more than x3, the game crashes.

Ahab's objective is to study the chronology and the genealogy of games, so he is interested in playing the most original form of the game. He is not really interested in playing the "best version" of the game.

 

The same goes for me, and that is why I was playing the TRS-80 version. But since I also have obsessions over "differences in ports" for any game that I find interesting, I think I will eventually try to play all versions of this game. I wonder if you have the same obsessions as me in general, or is it restricted to the Dunjonquest games?

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From time to time, I make a search for the Macintosh version of "The Temple of Apshai Trilogy."  My previous searches have always come up fruitless, or, at least, with non-working copies.  I just did a search and came up with a site that claims to have an archive of the game in zipped a2r and StuffIt format:

 

https://www.macintoshrepository.org/32357-temple-of-apshai-trilogy

 

I thought that a2r files were for the Apple II, but perhaps the format has opened up to other platforms.

 

I have no way to test these files.  Is there someone here who can use it on a real classic-era Macintosh or somehow emulate a vintage Macintosh?

 

Adam

 

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