BANKOK KNIGHTS

[José Pereira]

System3 announcements: TWISTED, LAST NINJA, BANKOK KNIGHTS, MYTH and God knows if there were more.

I still think that something may exist, at least Last Ninja...

 

But seeing what was happening in those 'old days' probably best not to see any of them released on A8

(Although I still believe that if they choose Archer McLean and seeing International Karate, probably something good may come, or even a Chris Paul Murray (but probably was Tynesoft only))

 

 

BANKOK KNIGHTS seems a very strange to see a decision from System3 or any other software House concerning the big sprites (unless there was some talk with Archer ...)

I just get this for some time and now I have all the time and that's why you probably would see this and many, many more tries and 'trying to find coders' on these days.

 

 

To begin there's this simple screen showing (although the game is a 4way scrolling).

I am just showing this but I can scroll the Level with no problem.

I also saw other Levels and think I can get it for all Levels and Enemys.

Instead of thinking and use PMs. for the two Players, I mainly use just PFs (just P0&P1 on our guy) leaving PM2&PM3 to colour screen using PRIOR0 Oring.

 

I also get the screen as 32bytes wide Narrow Mode because I am thinking in the great size of the SoftSprites and cycles needed for them.

The Bottom StatusArea is on the way (also in narrow Mode) and yes, you would see it with the scores/letters in Hi-Resol. coloured almost exactly like in the C64 version, and the 'Bambus like' using PMs. on 2:1Resolution.

 

Once more: "There is a coder around there interested?"

 

 

By the way, as I said, I have almost all my time 'for free', if anyone wants to code some game and need a guy to do the Gfxs. or wants to talk and try some ideas to get a 'Game of his dreams' into A8 then you know I am always here

 

 

Help me in using my time for a good cause!...

 

 

 

 

José Pereira.

Edited July 22, 2011 by José Pereira

[emkay]

Test, test , soundcheck

 

 

 

Krungthep.xex

[emkay]

Hehe.....

 

What about a gr. 7 game ( again )

 

 

 

Huge protagonists, scrolling background, and 12 colours on the screen. Digis ....

[José Pereira]

Hehe.....

 

What about a gr. 7 game ( again )

 

 

 

Huge protagonists, scrolling background, and 12 colours on the screen. Digis ....

 

And the same question from me:

"How to get Gfxs. in 4colours and some DLIs. maaybe possible... But how to colour the guys?"

Emkay how?

 

This one cannot be done by a Flicker Method like Space Harrier.

[José Pereira]

EMkay?

[José Pereira]

EMkay?

 

 

Just some quickly and simply conversion at PAINT and saving in 16colours Bitmap:

 

2:2ratio GR:7 4colours (2Grays, White and Black) on the Gfxs. and Players other colours (PRIOR0 PMs.?)

 

But how will you PRIOR0 them with that size.

[José Pereira]

EMkay?

 

There's no answer?

 

Althought I think that all the Gfxs. in 4colours, even if some DLIs. wouldn't be possible or look very good.

I still think it will not work.

 

But with this picture I get this:

-> PF0-Black suround the Players shapes it's essential to Mask expanded PM2&PM3 for their skin

-> PM0 for 'our guy' clothe and Hair

-> PM2 Expanded for 'our guy' skin Bronwns1

-> PM1 for 'Enemy' clothe and Hair

-> PM3 Expanded for 'Enemy' skin colour Browns2

 

 

The problem here is that I would need to see/try in all shapes to see if there is possible to have PM2&PM3 expanded quadruple Mask with PF0 (Black) 'bordering' Players skin and doesn't mess with the Gfxs. (if PM2&PM3 skin pixels appear, or not, in the Gfxs. outside the Black Black 'surround ' skin shapes).

Edited July 24, 2011 by José Pereira

[José Pereira]

EMkay?

 

There's no answer?

 

Althought I think that all the Gfxs. in 4colours, even if some DLIs. wouldn't be possible or look very good.

I still think it will not work.

 

But with this picture I get this:

-> PF0-Black suround the Players shapes it's essential to Mask expanded PM2&PM3 for their skin

-> PM0 for 'our guy' clothe and Hair

-> PM2 Expanded for 'our guy' skin Bronwns1

-> PM1 for 'Enemy' clothe and Hair

-> PM3 Expanded for 'Enemy' skin colour Browns2

 

 

The problem here is that I would need to see/try in all shapes to see if there is possible to have PM2&PM3 expanded quadruple Mask with PF0 (Black) 'bordering' Players skin and doesn't mess with the Gfxs. (if PM2&PM3 skin pixels appear, or not, in the Gfxs. outside the Black Black 'surround ' skin shapes).

 

EDIT:

-> Two (colour,luminance) must be the same in all scanlines/screens:

PF0 Darkest Gray instead of Black:(0,2) and PF1 White:(0,14)

-> PM2&PM3 skins colours are colour 15 that will 'OR' any PF2 colour.

Here, for example, PF2 a liitle Dark Gray:(0,6) and two Players with two skins colour:

-Our guy: PM2( 15,8 ) 'OR' gets (15,14) Light skin

-Enemy: PM3(15,4) 'OR' get a (15,6) darkest skin colour

But other Enemys skin colours possible:

-(15,0) 'OR' get (15,6)

-(15,2) 'OR' get (15,6)

-(15,4) 'OR' get (15,6)

-(15,10) 'OR' get (15,14)

-(15,12) 'OR' get (15,14)

Edited July 24, 2011 by José Pereira

[José Pereira]

This is correct picture to all that explanations:

Edited July 24, 2011 by José Pereira

[oky2000]

As someone who owns this game and knew sprite coding on C64 since 1983 I always was impressed only technically by this game. Personally I would take the routine and use it on say a conversion of Mortal Kombat or SF2 remake.

[emkay]

As someone who owns this game and knew sprite coding on C64 since 1983 I always was impressed only technically by this game. Personally I would take the routine and use it on say a conversion of Mortal Kombat or SF2 remake.

 

Well, as someone who knows the capabilities of the A8, I'd still like to see such fullscreen action games with huge moving objects. The Atari can do much more as Space Harriers shows.

 

 

@José

 

In gr. 7 resolution, you can form the sprites "on the fly" without getting low on CPU cycles.

[José Pereira]

@José

In gr. 7 resolution, you can form the sprites "on the fly" without getting low on CPU cycles.

 

"form the sprites 'on the fly'" but what that solves the large width of the guys to be covered by PMs without them 'colour mess' the background gfxs.?

And also, what that 'on the fly' will put colours on the Gfxs. (that small Gfx is using Grays but it also have more than it's there on your example: 3Grays, White and Black. And there are screens with much more colours, like the traditional/late days talking ColourMap (even C64 ColourMap colour in Hi-Resolution))

 

I just show that I can colour the guys, probably possible but I don't even try to show how the screens would look this way.

(just as an example: try to say how will you colour the Sky that's is exactly on the left side/left end of screen scrolling of that Mountain/Rocks... Yes, how will you do that? Just get one more colour, a Blue for the sky, PMs. are all used on the large guys shapes)

Edited July 25, 2011 by José Pereira

[emkay]

@José

In gr. 7 resolution, you can form the sprites "on the fly" without getting low on CPU cycles.

 

"form the sprites 'on the fly'" but what that solves the large width of the guys to be covered by PMs without them 'colour mess' the background gfxs.?

And also, what that 'on the fly' will put colours on the Gfxs. (that small Gfx is using Grays but it also have more than it's there on your example: 3Grays, White and Black. And there are screens with much more colours, like the traditional/late days talking ColourMap (even C64 ColourMap colour in Hi-Resolution))

 

I just show that I can colour the guys, probably possible but I don't even try to show how the screens would look this way.

(just as an example: try to say how will you colour the Sky that's is exactly on the left side/left end of screen scrolling of that Mountain/Rocks... Yes, how will you do that? Just get one more colour, a Blue for the sky, PMs. are all used on the large guys shapes)

 

 

In that resolution you can do many tricks. Just like changing the look of the background at the borders and to switch to the main 3 playfield colours.

 

Again, if someone wants to start a game-engine, he had to use simple gray colours. After the engine works, the PMg can be added.

"On the fly" means shape and size adjusted every 2nd scanline, no PM DMA.

[José Pereira]

Again, if someone wants to start a game-engine, he had to use simple gray colours. After the engine works, the PMg can be added.

 

Yes, but more than start with Grays it's seeing all the game screenshots and what is possible or not.

Blue of sky and water on left (couldn't find quickly an image) but here you have green on the right (and see that there are 3Grays, White and Black on the main screen).

[José Pereira]

Emkay it doesn't work and you'll never get anything in this Game.

 

Going over Gfxs. and over PM2&PM3:

PF0-Black

PF1-Brown Skin colour

 

Backgr. and PF2: Two Grays.

PM2&PM3 To get the Green and see the mess, I need to freely start using PF1-Brown skin colour to Mask the Green.

 

PM0&PM1 are free to at least to use on the shorts (and they are more than 8or10pixels wide).

 

NO WAY!

Is it really need to be in GR.7 to have cycles for these large guys?

Or is it Emkay and his Mode?

Anyother can answer this question (is this large guys 'cycles possible' if using ANTIC4?)

Edited July 25, 2011 by José Pereira

[emkay]

 

 

NO WAY!

Is it really need to be in GR.7 to have cycles for these large guys?

Or is it Emkay and his Mode?

Anyother can answer this question (is this large guys 'cycles possible' if using ANTIC4?)

 

Try to calculate.

Every 2nd scanline 40 cycles were saved. PM doesn't need DMA, too.

 

If you want to use PM for vertical movement, you have to redraw it anyways.

 

LDA#, STA = 5 cycles * 5 = 25 cyles for all PM to set on one scanline. Set width = 8 * 5 (max.) 40 cycles.

65 Cycles for 2 scanlines....

 

Some cycles more or less: In gr. 7 you can handle the graphics in huge sizes and add PM over it, without really taking notice of the used CPU.

[oky2000]

As someone who owns this game and knew sprite coding on C64 since 1983 I always was impressed only technically by this game. Personally I would take the routine and use it on say a conversion of Mortal Kombat or SF2 remake.

 

Well, as someone who knows the capabilities of the A8, I'd still like to see such fullscreen action games with huge moving objects. The Atari can do much more as Space Harriers shows.

 

 

 

My point was to do the engine on A8 but use it on a worthy game like SF2/MK etc

[oky2000]

Emkay it doesn't work and you'll never get anything in this Game.

 

Going over Gfxs. and over PM2&PM3:

PF0-Black

PF1-Brown Skin colour

 

Backgr. and PF2: Two Grays.

PM2&PM3 To get the Green and see the mess, I need to freely start using PF1-Brown skin colour to Mask the Green.

 

PM0&PM1 are free to at least to use on the shorts (and they are more than 8or10pixels wide).

 

NO WAY!

Is it really need to be in GR.7 to have cycles for these large guys?

Or is it Emkay and his Mode?

Anyother can answer this question (is this large guys 'cycles possible' if using ANTIC4?)

 

Do naked SF2 girls and save colours

[José Pereira]

 

Try to calculate.

Every 2nd scanline 40 cycles were saved. PM doesn't need DMA, too.

 

If you want to use PM for vertical movement, you have to redraw it anyways.

 

LDA#, STA = 5 cycles * 5 = 25 cyles for all PM to set on one scanline. Set width = 8 * 5 (max.) 40 cycles.

65 Cycles for 2 scanlines....

 

Some cycles more or less: In gr. 7 you can handle the graphics in huge sizes and add PM over it, without really taking notice of the used CPU.

 

 

Emkay could you get those PMs. calculations separate?

LIKE:

-> ANTIC4: one (all are the same) scanline.

-> GR.7: 1st and 2nd scanline (others same)

 

 

A bit confused in your explanation.

Thanks.

[Creature XL]

 

 

NO WAY!

Is it really need to be in GR.7 to have cycles for these large guys?

Or is it Emkay and his Mode?

Anyother can answer this question (is this large guys 'cycles possible' if using ANTIC4?)

 

Try to calculate.

Every 2nd scanline 40 cycles were saved. PM doesn't need DMA, too.

 

If you want to use PM for vertical movement, you have to redraw it anyways.

 

LDA#, STA = 5 cycles * 5 = 25 cyles for all PM to set on one scanline. Set width = 8 * 5 (max.) 40 cycles.

65 Cycles for 2 scanlines....

 

Some cycles more or less: In gr. 7 you can handle the graphics in huge sizes and add PM over it, without really taking notice of the used CPU.

 

small correction so others do notlearn it wrong:

LDA # is 2 cycles

STA abs is 4 cycles

 

so you need 6 cycles to change HW-register. doesn't change much in the calculation, just to get it right for others.

 

 

Oh, I want to add that Gr.7 would suck for such a game. I can agree with you and others that it would not do much difference with a fast-paced game like SH or a fast 2d-shooter. However, when i was playing SF2 I was so concentrated on the big sprites that I think they would look ugly. Last but not least I do no tlike these games so I wouldn't do them/play them on A8. IK+ is a different thing as you have to fight against two guys.

[miker]

Do naked SF2 girls and save colours

 

HAHA ++

[emkay]

 

 

 

Oh, I want to add that Gr.7 would suck for such a game.

 

I wouldn't , if colours were there, and the animations were fluent and detailed.

[emkay]

Btw. Some changes in the testtune

 

 

 

KrungthepM.xex

[José Pereira]

There are games and there are games.

What it's good, better or possible for one doesn't have to be for all.

A8 doesn't have only GR.7 and GTIA Modes.

If I am always returning to see what I can get of C64 Colourmap eight colours to only two (PF2&PF3) on A8, imagine this game with just one A8 'type of' (PF2).

It's impossible, like Emkay saying that Turrican would go if using GR.7.

It would go Mono looking 3+1colours.

If even with DLIs. and ANTIC4 4+1colours it seems impossible...

 

 

Of course that in a Bitmap Mode you wouldn't need, for example, to have shifting in vertical, just the sprite 'real using' scanlines (on ANTIC4 you'll need 8scanlines shifting if the sprite goes on vertical) and this would be a lost of, more or less, 16cycles per byte each 'shifting' scanline.

 

 

But if no one tried saying that would go better this or that way.

Some Months ago we had here another Thread about cycles and soft sprite with PMs. overlays.

I receive this from PeterDell:

Here, using ANTIC4, you have a 2bytes (x) 16scanlines high.

This is 3bytes (x) 24scanlines if consider the shifting needed.

In chars size it's 3(x)3(=)9chars each ship. And this would be 72chars for all the eight ships(including lots of 'shifting space').

On that Thread we talk and came to the conclusion that one, two or three soft sprites more like these more were posssible.

 

But if this run at 50fps and those 72chars soft sprite, are more or less, the size of each one of that guys (includ. shifting) then, probably at 25fps. I can have the two guys.

One at each 25fps. would look good?

(get in attention that C64 move 50fps. at Hi-resol. pixel movement that would be equal to A8 colour clock at 25fps)

 

We can see, for example, International Karate, more or less, the size of the 2Players, but moving over Backgr. clean Gfx. would be around 16cycles per byte and here over 'real' gfxs. would be 21cycles.

The difference between 16 and 21cycles would came from, A8 conversion of IK+.

There you still have sprites moving over a clean '16cycles' gfx but 3guys moving.

The third guy cycles would be, certainly, more or less the 16->21cycles needed to move the guys over a screen with all type of bit-pairs (00),(01),(10)&(11) 21cycles Bitmap Masking.

 

Coders can easilyy do these Mathematical and see, but for me, IK->IK+ third guy seems a prove that large guys in a 21cycle and ANTIC4 CharMode 'more shifting for scanlines' it's possible.

 

 

 

 

Just came into this on my Messenger and was something I ask to one of you some Months ago. He kindly did this just for me to see:

I get exactly the C64 gfxs. and the P0&P1Multicolour for Giana.

But there's a sort of a Bonus that you cannot see on this '.png', for that you would need to run the '.xex':

Giana-DoubleG2F.xex

O.k. not and couldn't work for a Game, even if the Luminances changed... probably, almost for sure, but... just wanted to try and see what could we have

 

 

 

 

 

Greets.

José Pereira.

Edited July 25, 2011 by José Pereira

[emkay]

I get exactly the C64 gfxs. and the P0&P1Multicolour for Giana.

But there's a sort of a Bonus that you cannot see on this '.png', for that you would need to run the '.xex':

Giana-DoubleG2F.xex

O.k. not and couldn't work for a Game, even if the Luminances changed... probably, almost for sure, but... just wanted to try and see what could we have

 

 

 

Yawn

 

Game concepts almost everytime get cancelled after the coder has to built Attackwaves with vertical and horizontal movement together.

 

Ofcourse you can do Turrican on the A8, with multi flicker is everything possible.

If you want to have solid frames and colours AND animations, you get restricted to the gr. 7 mode. Or the software 4x4 modes, or charmovement in char modes....