ANTIC4 or Gr.7?

[José Pereira]

I have many thoughts about Xenon2:

 

On the two ways on A8 I see that I could have P2&P3 for all that Plants PRIOR0 that give me:

P2-Dark Gold/Brown

Ored PF2-Light Gold/Brown

 

But if I use PF3 (ANTIC4) I'll get another Ored and another colour.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ANTIC4:

PF0-Black

PF1- Rocks Darkest colour

PF2-Light Gray/White (our ship shooting and Rocks lighest colour

Backgr.- Middle Gray

If I have PF3 I could get, for example those Missiles on the Floor as:

PF1-Light Gray

Backr.-Middle Gray

PF3- That Gold Dark lines colour (and different from Plants)

 

But also two type of colouring Enemys:

-> Gray looking ones: PF1,PF2,Backgr.

-> Ground shoots and Those Gold Enemys: PF1,PF3,Backgr.

 

 

Our ship can go well and diferent colours with:

P0&P1-16pixels that's the width of the ship

(P0&P1)Ored PF0

(P0&P1)Ored PF1

5th Player 4Missiles: Gold colour on the two Wings and the 'A' Letter.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

But then if I need to constantly change the P2&P3 underlays on the left and Right side Plants then probably it would be a pain in using ANTIC4 and have the BadLines trouble.

 

GR.7:

PF0-Black

PF1-Middle Gray Rocks colour

PF2-Light Gray Rocks colour

Backgr.-Dark Gray Rocks colour

 

The Plants would go the same as P2&P3 PRIOR0 underlays.

All the same (Plants, our ship,...) but now I would have all the shoots, Enemys in 3Grays.

 

Different coloured only on the Plants and would lost a way to have the Gold/different colour on the shoots and some type of Enemys.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Emkay will just say that for this only in GR.7 is possible.

But is it really only possible in GR.7?

 

If some things move in 'Char steps'? Like:

White Shoots, some of the Enemy 'flying around',...

And leave only our ship, Bonus and those Plants movement 'pixel by pixel' would it be possible and have cycles?

 

We have so many things 'flying around' that it seems no coding/cycles possible or it is?

(this is because I recently discouver the maps and all chars/Tiles and all sprites frames, including the Big Creatures on the End of each Level.)

 

This picture from PAINT gives an idea of a possible GR.7 looking.

The Plants would have:

P2&P3-The Darkest colour

Ored PF2 that Lighest Yellow/White colour

(Pale green couldn't be possible and would be the PF1-Midddle Gray, same as on the Rocks)

 

 

But then like I said, I would lost PF3 and, for example that 'Redish/Pale' shoot on the middle of the screen (and any other Enemy ships/Creatures would be the same colours as the Rocks Gfxs.)

 

 

 

 

A GR.7 Flicker Two Palletes like Sheddy Space Harrier Would look good in a vertical shoot'em'up like this?

Edited July 27, 2011 by José Pereira

[emkay]

Vertical shooter?

 

Antic 4 + multiplexed PMg with some flicker.

 

 

[José Pereira]

Vertical shooter?

 

Antic 4 + multiplexed PMg with some flicker.

 

I know you'll be the first one to answer but...

Emkay you are really a surprise.

Bankok Knights impossible to get Gfxs. in just 4colours and just the guys.

And when I was expecting that you also go this one with GR.7 you think it could go in ANTIC4.

 

Flicker where?

I was expecting to do everything without Flicker.

I am only thinking is if there are cycles for all those things moving on screen at the same time.

Probably I would need to have the shoots and most of the Enemys moving at 'char steps'.

Everything moving at 'pixel steps' real Bitmap Masking at 25fps or less and we'll run out of cycles, right?

[emkay]

It's depending on how the graphics is build.

 

In Bangkok Knights, you have "heaps" of moving graphics.

 

In Xenon you have many single moving objects.

Particular in vertical shooters, the A8 can use it's strength of DLIs and horizontal moving PMg, which only needs one register for moving/multiplying them .

Attack waves move most time on the screen in a different vertical position, so flicker is rather low.....

[emkay]

You know this one:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27HySiAjMZ4

 

The "bit over" is the usage of 10 bit wide objects.

In a game with that high count of moving objects, 8 bit wide would do well, missiles should be reused in hor/vert. fixed movements.

 

Shots from the "ground" should be allowed to move in char resolution. Huge screen filling enemies can be moved with simple scrolling, animated with charset rotations.

Edited July 27, 2011 by emkay

[José Pereira]

I know this, but don't want to say because I was more thinking in:

-> P2&P3 underlays for Ground Plants

-> P0&P1 overlay for our ship

-> PF1,PF2,Backgr.- Ground Rocks.

 

And:

-> PF1,Backgr.,PF2- Enemy type1 (gray coloured)

-> PF1, Backgr.,PF3- Enemy type2 (gray with Gold/Redish)

 

And that's why I was thinking in cycles... I am in a soft sprite routine.

You're into PMs Multiplexinmg and flicker (that's where you get the needed )cycles.

 

I would not have flicker but probably wouldn't have cycles for all that soft sprites moving around... or could I get it in my way?

[emkay]

I know this, but don't want to say because I was more thinking in:

-> P2&P3 underlays for Ground Plants

-> P0&P1 overlay for our ship

-> PF1,PF2,Backgr.- Ground Rocks.

 

And:

-> PF1,Backgr.,PF2- Enemy type1 (gray coloured)

-> PF1, Backgr.,PF3- Enemy type2 (gray with Gold/Redish)

 

And that's why I was thinking in cycles... I am in a soft sprite routine.

You're into PMs Multiplexinmg and flicker (that's where you get the needed )cycles.

 

I would not have flicker but probably wouldn't have cycles for all that soft sprites moving around... or could I get it in my way?

 

Not enough cycles.

[José Pereira]

O.k. that could work.

There's a simple version to get the screen in 32bytes (where Black it's the Backgr. register colour)wide and with TileLayerPro I could get the Gfxs. and sprites: Sega Master system.

 

But I think the better would be to have at least the two PMs. Multicolour 2Enemys by Line and than more than two will flicker.

The Master System sprites are in 16Hi-resol. pixels and could go, probably into 8pixels 2:1 that would be 1PM. Multicolour each.

_> REALLY IMPORTANT QUESTION:

"Would we have cycles to our ship and Weapons 'Add-ons' as soft sprites?

 

Our ship and all those Ships 'Add-on' are more than two PMs. and I would prefer to have the 2Enemys/2Multicolour PMs.

Our ship and 'add-ons' could use PF0,PF1 but then I would need to get a third colour.

The problem is here.

To have the things like other versions I would have 3colours (Grays) and another one(redish).

If the same as Rocks (like other versions) 3Grays would be PF0,PF1,PF2 and the Redish could be 4Missiles as 5th Player.

But how to solve the clash of the PF2 when 'our ship' and the 'add-ons' go over gfxs.?

[+Stephen]

You know this one:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27HySiAjMZ4

 

SNIP

 

Wow - I don't recall seeing this before. Shame so many of these projects get close to completion and then just linger (guilty myself, nothing of this quality however).

[José Pereira]

No way to get anything similar to this:

Even with PMs. under/overlays on this Hard/Weapons 'Add-ons'

[oky2000]

Jose do you have link to the original graphics you found?

Edited July 27, 2011 by oky2000

[José Pereira]

Jose do you have link to the original graphics you found?

 

It's this I get on that site:

XENON2 Map,Sprites and Tiles.zip

[+wood_jl]

You know this one:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27HySiAjMZ4

 

SNIP

 

Wow - I don't recall seeing this before. Shame so many of these projects get close to completion and then just linger (guilty myself, nothing of this quality however).

 

That is an INCREDIBLE demo. That looks beyond A8 graphics. Ain't it impressive what a bag of tricks a skilled programmer can pull out, from old hardware? WOW!

[MrFish]

You know this one:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27HySiAjMZ4

 

SNIP

 

Wow - I don't recall seeing this before. Shame so many of these projects get close to completion and then just linger (guilty myself, nothing of this quality however).

 

It's actually not an unfinished project, but supposedly a proof of concept for a sprite multiplexing routine. He used it in 3 demos: Ripper, Contra, and SMB (that I know of). Movement in the latter demo is a little rough, but I believe less time was spent on it, as the author was demoing it for a thread about converting the original SMB code to run on the A8's.

 

Sprite Demos (Probe).zip

[+Faicuai]

You know this one:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27HySiAjMZ4

 

The "bit over" is the usage of 10 bit wide objects.

In a game with that high count of moving objects, 8 bit wide would do well, missiles should be reused in hor/vert. fixed movements.

 

Shots from the "ground" should be allowed to move in char resolution. Huge screen filling enemies can be moved with simple scrolling, animated with charset rotations.

 

 

...SICK (!!!)

 

 

...Talk about a masterpiece, there. Extracting down to the last bit of juice the Atari-8bit platform can give, in every step of way.

 

I would love to see the source of this mini demo (here's when good code-documentation comes handy :) )

 

 

F.

[Heaven/TQA]

Now Heaven time... Ripper is looking fluid but it is not like a killer app... here I am with MK this is "out of the box features" of the A8... in vertical scrolling games the A8 can pull off his strength... Contra etc or horizontal scrolling games are far harder as when multiplexing and 4 HW sprites per scan line become more valid to make it look good without massive flickering.

[José Pereira]

O.k., it taked all my Night:

 

Mix SidewinderII (can create new Gfxs.) with New Enemys and a new 'our ship', with some better/additional weapons.

The Enemy sprites could also be 8/9pixels wide to save cycles.

PRIOR0 and PM2/PM3 colour Oring PF2&PF3 are three new colours to the Ground Gfxs.

Our ship going well with P0&P1 overlays (M0&M1 are not used by now).

 

With some one Level of SidewinderII, other taken from others and other new with lots of different Enemys and could be a winner.

(sorry for the sides Gray colour but just thought that to have cycles would need to go into a 32 bytes wide)

 

Like karol said, if you have possible 4PMs. by Line you wouldn't need Flicker. Here I don't have Flicker but would need a good Soft Sprites routine and PF2/PF3 DLIs. (PF2&PF3 and even more: PF0&PF1 chnage scanlines colours in ANTIC4 are what PR0BE did on the Ripper Demo, that's nothing new...)

Edited July 28, 2011 by José Pereira

[analmux]

O.k., it taked all my Night:

 

It looks very interesting...

[Rybags]

Xenon (1) would be a much more achievable project.

 

For Xenon 2, charmode would be the way. Those carnivorous flower enemies (or whatever they are) that grow in/out could be done cheaply by having character definitions that are dynamically changed. 2-4 sets of the characters required allow them to be in a different growth phase so they're not all doing the same thing at once.

[José Pereira]

Xenon (1) would be a much more achievable project.

 

For Xenon 2, charmode would be the way. Those carnivorous flower enemies (or whatever they are) that grow in/out could be done cheaply by having character definitions that are dynamically changed. 2-4 sets of the characters required allow them to be in a different growth phase so they're not all doing the same thing at once.

 

 

XENON 1 seems even more difficult because of the Ground cells and the Enemys Flying over it.

If Ground at least two colours and the Enemys over it are 3colours then PF2&PF3 clash.

And there are Flying ships that crosses Ground but also the Metalic Houses.

 

And more 'sh...' with all those Yellowish Bullets.

There isn't PMs to colour all that and PM2&PM3 PRIOR0 'Oring' and will always get PF2&PF3 clash.

 

But just see the Video at 17:24 and that Level is exactly what I am doing here at Sidewinder2.

That Pinks Ground can be PM2&PM3 Ored and the Grays would be the PFs. with PF3 on that other colour on the Grays of the Enemys.

Exactly like Sidewinder2, another Level for a possible remake

[oky2000]

Why not just use 16 shades of blue/green/gray etc for backgrounds and colour PMs separately?

[emkay]

Why not just use 16 shades of blue/green/gray etc for backgrounds and colour PMs separately?

 

 

It would result in something like this:

 

 

Not bad , in my opinion. Some multiplexed PM (Main ship, weapons , ground turrets, shots ) over that background makes a great looking game out of this. Some parallax on the tiles should be possible aswell.

[emkay]

Hehe....

possibly someone could patch the "Ripper" demo. Changing the background to gr. 9 and edit the scrol-routine for the 80 pixel resolution

Just for some impression...

[José Pereira]

Why not just use 16 shades of blue/green/gray etc for backgrounds and colour PMs separately?

 

 

It would result in something like this:

 

 

Not bad , in my opinion. Some multiplexed PM (Main ship, weapons , ground turrets, shots ) over that background makes a great looking game out of this. Some parallax on the tiles should be possible aswell.

 

 

Emkay Bullets could use the Missiles Ored, like 2Missiles as 1shot.

 

Our ship 1PM Multicolour and 1Enemy other PM Multicolour.

Then the Engine would be exactly the same as Ripper and Flicker if more than two Multicolour PMs.?

[emkay]

Why not just use 16 shades of blue/green/gray etc for backgrounds and colour PMs separately?

 

 

It would result in something like this:

 

 

Not bad , in my opinion. Some multiplexed PM (Main ship, weapons , ground turrets, shots ) over that background makes a great looking game out of this. Some parallax on the tiles should be possible aswell.

 

 

Emkay Bullets could use the Missiles Ored, like 2Missiles as 1shot.

 

Our ship 1PM Multicolour and 1Enemy other PM Multicolour.

Then the Engine would be exactly the same as Ripper and Flicker if more than two Multicolour PMs.?

 

Yes.