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And the video from C64 (on the page there's more versions like AMIGA, ST,...):

 

-> First question is why C64 are using one scanline other Blank?

(saving cycles?)

-> Second question is that it seems that the scrolling are done by software because the 'sides Panels are there static (or are C64 sprites Multiplex all screen high?)

(the ships are just C64 Hardware sprites, nothing new on that...)

 

Now A8 questions:

-> What we could get on A8?

(are those one used, one blank scanlines needed? surely not...)

-> A ProjectM like? A GR.7 like?

(And the Sides Panels? Emkay the sides Panels seems usefull and the only IMHO and playability if they are on this sides ;) )

GTIA Modes aren't the best choice, clean GR.9 and 4:1 at least doesn't seem the best way to go because of the 4:1 ratio pixels but that ProjectM APAC probably...

-> Sides Panels 3or4colours/center Playing Area more 3or4 colours at least

How to implement this on A8?

-> ProjectM scanlines 'GRs. Modes changing seems a good way to go, but then how to get the sides Panels?

And our ship 1PM. Multicolour spent and we would only have another just one Multicolour sprite for the Enemys. One and if more at the same scanline(s) flickering?

 

 

 

 

Emkay or others can you give ideas (and if someone would want to spend some time, even a G2F or a PAINT 'colouring' of what what it could look like on A8?

It doesn't also have to be a direct copy of Eliminator...

 

 

 

Ideas and suggestions welcome.

José Pereira.

 

 

 

 

(P.s.- Emkay this one it's more into your likes, isn't it? ;) )

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-> First question is why C64 are using one scanline other Blank?

(saving cycles?)

 

 

Bingo.

 

Look how slow it is on the C64 already. Compare it to the ST or Amiga version, you might recognise they are "action" games ;)

 

 

-> Second question is that it seems that the scrolling are done by software because the 'sides Panels are there static (or are C64 sprites Multiplex all screen high?)

(the ships are just C64 Hardware sprites, nothing new on that...)

 

Now A8 questions:

-> What we could get on A8?

(are those one used, one blank scanlines needed? surely not...)

-> A ProjectM like? A GR.7 like?

(And the Sides Panels? Emkay the sides Panels seems usefull and the only IMHO and playability if they are on this sides ;) )

GTIA Modes aren't the best choice, clean GR.9 and 4:1 at least doesn't seem the best way to go because of the 4:1 ratio pixels but that ProjectM APAC probably...

-> Sides Panels 3or4colours/center Playing Area more 3or4 colours at least

How to implement this on A8?

 

 

Gr. 7 . Ofcourse fullscreen ... bring the action back to 8 bit computers ;)

 

Colour black, two gray tones, one colour

PMg for scoreboard and moving objects.

Some flicker will not disturb the gameplay.

 

 

-> ProjectM scanlines 'GRs. Modes changing seems a good way to go, but then how to get the sides Panels?

And our ship 1PM. Multicolour spent and we would only have another just one Multicolour sprite for the Enemys. One and if more at the same scanline(s) flickering?

 

 

 

 

Emkay or others can you give ideas (and if someone would want to spend some time, even a G2F or a PAINT 'colouring' of what what it could look like on A8?

It doesn't also have to be a direct copy of Eliminator...

 

 

 

Ideas and suggestions welcome.

José Pereira.

 

 

 

 

(P.s.- Emkay this one it's more into your likes, isn't it? ;) )

 

 

It is ;)

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Yeah, you were answering and I was doing a quick G2F in ANTIC4.

O.k., it was quick but not possible, probably.

Not a single PM wasted, but I would need to be all the time scrolling the Playing Area by software (Horizontal and vertical) because if I go into real Hardware Fine scrolling and the sides Panels I would get, probably, even more 'slowish' than that Right side Status Panel of Atlantis game Titan.

 

post-6517-0-03048300-1312262728_thumb.png

 

 

Your GR.7 would be possible, but what about PMs?

I was thinking in this PMs. distribution:

-> P2&P3 PRIOR0 on the sides Panels.

-> P0&P1 with Oring overlays for two Enemy ships and when more flickers.

-> 4Missiles as 5th Player PF3 colour for shoots/Explosions then (DLI) new colour in 'our ship'

 

Only Flicker when more than two Enemys...

PF3 changing it's no problem as we are on a Bitmap Mode where there isn't BadLines.

 

And what about sides Panels and the Road scrolls?

-> Status Panels are static Tiles.

-> Road are just moving by software?

Hardware scrolling for the Road and constantly 're-paint' of Panels would not not work or the best solution, right?

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Probably, the A8 version could be done a completely different way in gr. 7 fullscreen

 

Using all PM for the "status bars" (Double width for the borders (one player each side, missiles give details) and build all moving graphics on software sprites.

(For the "hires" freaks, same could be done with hires 32 bytes wide....)

 

The road's depth could be enhanced with different lumas then, while the status areas keep stable coloured.

 

Due to the vertical movement, the objects easily can get different colours, using colour flicker when the objects cross others vertically.

 

2 colours for the road

2 additional colours (black and a neutral colour) for the objects.

Objects also could use all 4 colours.

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ugh - there's no reason the C64 version has to be that clunky and slow, surely?

we were debating racing games a while back and admittedly they weren't 100% perfect, but they at least showed you could do better than this. With a bit of effort I'm sure you could do better than that these days and having it running on a stock machine I reckon.

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:yawn:

 

 

 

Those "fast" racing games on the C64 move in rather low resolution, mostly "40x25"...

Eliminator moves in a higher resolution. Possibly up to "160 x 100" .

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..which appears to be an improvement on the atari version which is a static image and nothing more than theory.

 

you going to prove me wrong on this?* :)

 

 

 

*don't make sheddy do it - he must be *knackered*....

Edited by sack-c0s

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:yawn:

 

 

 

Those "fast" racing games on the C64 move in rather low resolution, mostly "40x25"...

Eliminator moves in a higher resolution. Possibly up to "160 x 100" .

 

 

Emkay what's the name of that 'redish face'?

( :arrow: Don't start please... :thumbsdown: )

 

 

( :ponder: P.s.- I must find a place with thousands of smiles/faces and I'll start posting here with just faces... lets see who will understand me ;)

 

:thumbsup:

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The point I should've probably been more clear about is that isn't really a great example of what is possible. Getting the pathway up and running would be far easier using the A8 than the C64, but the way I had in mind I'm not too sure what's going to happen once you start putting objects on it - I'd probably try and find some way of abusing the PM graphics for that purpose and shift the status stuff to the top and bottom of the display, but maybe someone more skilled in these things has a better idea.

 

that said - even if the c64 is the weaker system for this particular game is it *so wrong* to at least want it to get a fair crack of the whip and do the best it can under the circumstances? hell - even a couple of raster splits to stop it being so dark wouldn't go amiss...

Edited by sack-c0s

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is there one genre of game we had not touched yet?

 

what about:

 

- Games series (f.e. Summer Games II)

- Soccer games

...

 

aehm... I think Jose should get his own thread... ;)

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The point I should've probably been more clear about is that isn't really a great example of what is possible. Getting the pathway up and running would be far easier using the A8 than the C64, but the way I had in mind I'm not too sure what's going to happen once you start putting objects on it - I'd probably try and find some way of abusing the PM graphics for that purpose and shift the status stuff to the top and bottom of the display, but maybe someone more skilled in these things has a better idea.

 

that said - even if the c64 is the weaker system for this particular game is it *so wrong* to at least want it to get a fair crack of the whip and do the best it can under the circumstances? hell - even a couple of raster splits to stop it being so dark wouldn't go amiss...

 

 

The Status Area going to Top and Bottom would free at least two Players.

For something 8bit like that would be almost or just like C64 with 4or5 ships each Line and no Flicker.

 

But for a real great one, like Space Harrier, it would need something around Sheddy...

Somethind around but it really isn't the same.

The road have at least two colours (sometimes three) more all that DLIs. of the Grass (or Black) on the Road sides.

Space Harrier on A8 have Background registry DLIs. acrooss almost all the screen high (remember or read Sheddy talkindg about why he take off the 'Chess like' Ground into that scanlines effect somewhere, I don't remeber where).

 

Sheddy have the flicker in using two Palletes for 'Flying soft sprites'

Here, for an Amiga type the Flicker would be from Road and the Enemys and that wouldn't work.

 

Or in some way there is exactly the same as Space Harrier, almost:

-> Two Palletes are two Enemys colouring.

-> Grass/sides of the Road are DLIs. of Backgr. register

-> P0&P1 Multicolour Our Ship

-> Road use P2&P3 underlays and scroll Vertical and Horizontal the way Adam Bylliard does at Elektaglide.

But if like this then how will we get the Chess effect?

:?

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is there one genre of game we had not touched yet?

 

what about:

 

- Games series (f.e. Summer Games II)

- Soccer games

...

 

aehm... I think Jose should get his own thread... ;)

 

 

Epyx and about Hi-Resolution sprites on C64 sports games I touched three or four Months ago.

You just say a type I never touched but I thought in it... You can trust in me but Football and other sport's games with balls are a little above A8 possibilities :D .

22Man, a Ball,1+2 Referees (UEFA even put more two behing tthe Posts :x )

Edited by José Pereira

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for the record I'm not the one who said that the A8 doesn't have the balls ;)

:thumbsup:

No problem. We'll get the Balls...

I think :|

 

:arrow: To make this clear:

Sport games with balls :!:

We only need to have one ball on each game :)

 

The problem is that we would need lots of Mans and A8 have so little number of Players ;)

:D

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Don't worry Jose - that was just a typically British sexual innuendo and not actually a technical criticism.

 

I know we share that part of our humour with your Spanish neighbours, but maybe Portuguese tastes are a bit more refined, I don't know.

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Don't worry Jose - that was just a typically British sexual innuendo and not actually a technical criticism.

 

I know we share that part of our humour with your Spanish neighbours, but maybe Portuguese tastes are a bit more refined, I don't know.

 

Balls are BALLS! Here also.

I understand.

 

Probably I'll start some Epyx Athletic games with no Balls.

We wouldn't need to have Balls on those games ;)

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Gr. 7 conception

 

The gray bars are all Players, Missiles are blue. The range of the ship is always the brightest region. Dlis could enhance the view of depth.

 

post-2756-0-11081500-1312303422_thumb.png

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The background can be a black field - what about using PMG for the "road" and ANTIC 4 or software sprites for the movable objects? then you can just use the horiz. position registers to "curve" the road. Then you'd cycle through character sets if necessary for the different sizes, and use HSCROL somewhat less I suspect.

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for the record I'm not the one who said that the A8 doesn't have the balls ;)

 

Well, the 2600 has one ball anyway. <ducks>

:lol:

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Gr. 7 conception

 

The gray bars are all Players, Missiles are blue. The range of the ship is always the brightest region. Dlis could enhance the view of depth.

 

post-2756-0-11081500-1312303422_thumb.png

 

Emkay is it my English understanding or are you 'fooling' in G2F with the Enemys different colours in different scanlines.

 

 

LET'S FACE IT:

Even with Flicker we can get something like C64 sprites.

C64 sprites aren't the real game building.

 

C64 always go into sprites. that's why they build the game around the C64 eight hardware sprites.

C64 doesn't have anything to do with the real ELIMINATOR game.

I was expecting Emkay, at least him says this.

Go into you Tube and watch all the versions there.

 

 

Once more the Zx spectrum is the most faithfull to the original Amiga/St versions.

The C64 always fool us with their Hardware sprites... there's only the sprites the Machine can have.

The ZX have all them like the Amiga, almost all, almost the same scrolling, almost all... even if that have to be in Zx Monochrome/colour clash.

That's what I was expecting from someone here.

(please remember a Topic I started about Midnight Resistance and question was: "wich version is more true/faithfull with the Arcade version?"

Thre wasn't no real answers to the question :( that's why I give-up on that one and start another ones ;) ... sometimes I am more into waiting you open your Eyes and commemt some reality thanm get those games into A8!)

 

 

I would like to get more games into A8 but ;)

(now it's my time to put some 'Faces' on the answers ;) =

Edited by José Pereira

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Gr. 7 conception

 

The gray bars are all Players, Missiles are blue. The range of the ship is always the brightest region. Dlis could enhance the view of depth.

 

post-2756-0-11081500-1312303422_thumb.png

 

Emkay is it my English understanding or are you 'fooling' in G2F with the Enemys different colours in different scanlines.

 

 

Just as I wrote before. Additional colour were easily to add, due to the vertical movement.

 

 

 

LET'S FACE IT:

Even with Flicker we can get something like C64 sprites.

C64 sprites aren't the real game building.

 

C64 always go into sprites. that's why they build the game around the C64 eight hardware sprites.

C64 doesn't have anything to do with the real ELIMINATOR game.

I was expecting Emkay, at least him says this.

Go into you Tube and watch all the versions there.

 

 

Didn't I write, the ST and Amiga version were "Action" games?

 

 

 

Once more the Zx spectrum is the most faithfull to the original Amiga/St versions.

 

Yes. I watched it later.

 

 

The C64 always fool us with their Hardware sprites... there's only the sprites the Machine can have.

 

Sprites, and a Textmode for interesting looking games. Last one isn't really well for more precisely calculated graphics. It could have been all great, if the C64 was built with a standard 2MHz CPU (or higher).

 

The ZX have all them like the Amiga, almost all, almost the same scrolling, almost all... even if that have to be in Zx Monochrome/colour clash.

That's what I was expecting from someone here.

 

Well, ask the conversion factory aka XXL ;) . Possibly he is able to do the same as with Death Chase, running faster than the "original".

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one (quick?) hack for the c64 version could be to kick the 2mhz register of the C128 in the bottom border and disable it at the top. It wouldn't do anything for the c64, but it would give the c128 a 2mhz CPU during the border/blanking time which should go some way towards easing things...

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