Bryan Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 (edited) droid800 --- can't see how that could be accomplished, no trademark is active for Atari 800, so can't see how the use of the number "800" for an emulator could be perceived to be a violation. As for Stella - it was a codenmame, never trademarked, never used in commercial trade, there is no precedent to attempt to enforce any form of trademark/copyright against it. As for atari800 emulator - yeah, you can see a clear connection there, just call it Colleen800 instead. call droid800 droidcolleen I don't think it'll matter if you call it Ben Franklin's Llama Cannon. It appears Atari is out to harass people who they think are dealing in emulators, and people with domains they want. Edited August 24, 2011 by Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Vendel Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Never happen, Atari can't own the rights to just the number 2600. The site would have to be an Atari site and then having materials related directly to the Atari 2600 on it. Plus if Atari were stupid enough to smash a stick against 2600 magazine hornets nest, they have a global hacker armada bent on never letting Atari exist on the Internet in any way, shape or form ever again. Curt I bet these stupid lawyers at Infogrames go after these guys next. http://www.2600.com/ Wouldn't surprise me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Vendel Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 It does, its called intentionally filing frivolous lawsuits, and that can backfire against Atari and a judge can slap heavy fines against Atari for wasting the courts time. droid800 --- can't see how that could be accomplished, no trademark is active for Atari 800, so can't see how the use of the number "800" for an emulator could be perceived to be a violation. As for Stella - it was a codenmame, never trademarked, never used in commercial trade, there is no precedent to attempt to enforce any form of trademark/copyright against it. As for atari800 emulator - yeah, you can see a clear connection there, just call it Colleen800 instead. call droid800 droidcolleen I don't think it'll matter if you call it Ben Franklin's Llama Canon. It appears Atari is out to harass people who they think are dealing in emulators, and people with domains they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trent Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I received another take down notice today, this time for Droid800. I also see that the the official Atari800 Android port is gone as well. This time the stated reason was trademark infringement. If these are infringing then so are all other ports of Atari800 and Stella, so I wonder if they are next. I suppose that is fine but it would have been nice to know their intention before spending countless hours on these projects. I looked over the page, I don't see where the infringement is other than if you include the OS roms. That would be a copyright infringement though, and easily rectified by not including them. Otherwise you're allowed to mention Atari 800 in the context of what this is - an emulator of it. Any patents have long since expired as well. The title is not an infringement, it's Droid800, whereas I could see if it were Atari 800 Emulator or something like that. Emulators themselves are not infringements and there's not a thing legally they can do about them - just as long as you're not including anything copyrighted with them (Atari's bios roms). I would ask for further clarification and stand tall - you're completely in the right. In this case, Atari is dealing with Google, and Google is dealing with me. In the first case (Droid2600) I petitioned Google to bring the app back as it didn't seem to me to be infringing in the way Atari claimed. Atari claimed it violated copyright on the console and several games. In the second case (Droid800), Atari are now saying there is a trademark violation. I can't really argue with that except to say that this has been the status-quo for so long that I felt it was acceptable to reference the company name and include some screenshots in the application. As I said before, I think there is a bit of this going on. If they have an Android version of "Best of" coming out it would make sense to clear out other emulators. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
high voltage Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I have quite a big Infogrames collection, it's going right in the trash now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svenski Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 We've given Atari an open invitation to talk to us and issue guidance to the retro community about what they think is acceptable and what isn't. I'm starting up a "Wear your Fuji symbol with pride" campaign.... only kidding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 It does, its called intentionally filing frivolous lawsuits, and that can backfire against Atari and a judge can slap heavy fines against Atari for wasting the courts time. Yeah, but they're not filing lawsuits. They're intimidating people who don't have the resources they have. What option does anyone have other than give Atari whatever it wants or risk an expensive lawsuit? They won't even inform people as to what they want changed.. it's pure intimidation with vague legalese and it's unethical. 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svenski Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Bryan has hit it on the head really. I do hope (though) that someone at Atari will see sense and do something about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potatohead Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 This is probably the new person at legal, unsure of themselves, deciding to go punching the geeks to see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 This is probably the new person at legal, unsure of themselves, deciding to go punching the geeks to see what happens. pps' letter came from Kristen Keller. Not the new person at legal. Kristen Keller is the head legal counsel at Atari, if he has an issue then best thing to do is to contact her regarding the issue and request specifics as to the issue(s) to remedy, I just posted an email previous to this one and most likely the only thing that can have a solid ground against pps is the use of Atari OS roms in his emulator (not the emulator itself) and the use of the Atari logo within a game(s) If you use one of the 3rd party OS images instead then the emulator is totally clear and if you remove the Atari logo and any other Atari speicific titles/names from your games and give them some other name, then that remedies that. kristen.keller@atari.com BTW - be polite and respectful, she's a reasonable person, but she is the head of Atari's legal department, so don't act like an ass, she can rain hell down on you if you piss her off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svenski Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Another problem is if you read the letter she sent PPS it would suggest they had done their research first and checked things in great detail before sending out the C&D. Obviously they didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammR25 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I was also under the impression that Boulder Dash was dead. Did you miss the demo we released a few weeks ago? Yeah I missed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potatohead Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 This is probably the new person at legal, unsure of themselves, deciding to go punching the geeks to see what happens. pps' letter came from Kristen Keller. Not the new person at legal. Kristen Keller is the head legal counsel at Atari, if he has an issue then best thing to do is to contact her regarding the issue and request specifics as to the issue(s) to remedy, I just posted an email previous to this one and most likely the only thing that can have a solid ground against pps is the use of Atari OS roms in his emulator (not the emulator itself) and the use of the Atari logo within a game(s) If you use one of the 3rd party OS images instead then the emulator is totally clear and if you remove the Atari logo and any other Atari speicific titles/names from your games and give them some other name, then that remedies that. kristen.keller@atari.com BTW - be polite and respectful, she's a reasonable person, but she is the head of Atari's legal department, so don't act like an ass, she can rain hell down on you if you piss her off. Well, crap. Still though. Punching the geeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trent Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 This is probably the new person at legal, unsure of themselves, deciding to go punching the geeks to see what happens. pps' letter came from Kristen Keller. Not the new person at legal. Kristen Keller is the head legal counsel at Atari, if he has an issue then best thing to do is to contact her regarding the issue and request specifics as to the issue(s) to remedy, I just posted an email previous to this one and most likely the only thing that can have a solid ground against pps is the use of Atari OS roms in his emulator (not the emulator itself) and the use of the Atari logo within a game(s) If you use one of the 3rd party OS images instead then the emulator is totally clear and if you remove the Atari logo and any other Atari speicific titles/names from your games and give them some other name, then that remedies that. kristen.keller@atari.com BTW - be polite and respectful, she's a reasonable person, but she is the head of Atari's legal department, so don't act like an ass, she can rain hell down on you if you piss her off. Well, crap. Still though. Punching the geeks. Legal works with the rest of the business to accomplish business goals. They can't just go it alone. I would speculate that in this instance the business goal is to clear the mobile market of competitors. That means curtailing convenient access to emulators and ROMs. As would be expected, people in legal probably don't know a homebrew rom from Yars Revenge. The cynic in me says they probably don't want to know either, since the more they know the less they can claim "good faith". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nathan Strum Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I was also under the impression that Boulder Dash was dead. Did you miss the demo we released a few weeks ago? Part of the problem is that it never got mentioned on the front page of AtariAge. The bigger problem though, is that even if it did, the front page of AtariAge is so completely dead that I suspect few people ever even look at it anymore. There's no good place on the site for news anymore, and it's all-too-easy to miss new forum topics if you don't happen to visit a particular forum on any given day. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I get the feeling they're just trying to clear the decks of "competition" before releasing a few lame compilation packs of classic games on mobile platforms. The potential market is huge. Tap just a small percentage of SmartPhones at $1 a copy and it's still tens/hundreds of millions. Of course the "SmartPeople" just grab a PD emulator and run hundreds of games rather than several, and do it for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svenski Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Yes, it has already been widely reported that Atari are moving away from traditional boxed and sometimes big budget games to the mobile and social gaming market. There is a lot of speculation out there about their motives but gamepolitics.com (who've also carried the atari2600.org story) put it nicely - Atari are "clearing the barn". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Part of the problem is that it never got mentioned on the front page of AtariAge. The bigger problem though, is that even if it did, the front page of AtariAge is so completely dead that I suspect few people ever even look at it anymore. There's no good place on the site for news anymore, and it's all-too-easy to miss new forum topics if you don't happen to visit a particular forum on any given day. I agree. Maybe that's a task which could be taken over or supported by some forum moderators? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro Rogue Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Part of the problem is that it never got mentioned on the front page of AtariAge. The bigger problem though, is that even if it did, the front page of AtariAge is so completely dead that I suspect few people ever even look at it anymore. There's no good place on the site for news anymore, and it's all-too-easy to miss new forum topics if you don't happen to visit a particular forum on any given day. I agree. Maybe that's a task which could be taken over or supported by some forum moderators? Well in relation to general Atari news, you're welcome to check out atarihq.com. In the process of a full site redesign, but the front page is all the lastest rss feed Atari related news out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Vendel Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Shameless plug Part of the problem is that it never got mentioned on the front page of AtariAge. The bigger problem though, is that even if it did, the front page of AtariAge is so completely dead that I suspect few people ever even look at it anymore. There's no good place on the site for news anymore, and it's all-too-easy to miss new forum topics if you don't happen to visit a particular forum on any given day. I agree. Maybe that's a task which could be taken over or supported by some forum moderators? Well in relation to general Atari news, you're welcome to check out atarihq.com. In the process of a full site redesign, but the front page is all the lastest rss feed Atari related news out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slyde Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I don't think it'll matter if you call it Ben Franklin's Llama Cannon. Sorry guys, i'll be right back. I need to register BenFranklinLlamaCannon.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloopy Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Never happen, Atari can't own the rights to just the number 2600. The site would have to be an Atari site and then having materials related directly to the Atari 2600 on it. Plus if Atari were stupid enough to smash a stick against 2600 magazine hornets nest, they have a global hacker armada bent on never letting Atari exist on the Internet in any way, shape or form ever again. Curt I bet these stupid lawyers at Infogrames go after these guys next. http://www.2600.com/ Wouldn't surprise me yeah i would agree, that would be like using a live large hornets nest as a pinata... the name 'Atari' probably wouldnt be usable by any commercial entity for quite a while... sloopy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceDice2010 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 (edited) Never happen, Atari can't own the rights to just the number 2600. The site would have to be an Atari site and then having materials related directly to the Atari 2600 on it. Plus if Atari were stupid enough to smash a stick against 2600 magazine hornets nest, they have a global hacker armada bent on never letting Atari exist on the Internet in any way, shape or form ever again. Curt I bet these stupid lawyers at Infogrames go after these guys next. http://www.2600.com/ Wouldn't surprise me If they went after atari2600.org what would stop them from going after atari2600.com? One thing to keep in mind is that the UDRP dispute process is much different than a court process. It's pretty damn easy to get a domain name via the UDRP process. My company has probably gotten over 100 in the past year that way. Edited August 24, 2011 by SpaceDice2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceDice2010 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 You know... I think the main issue that needs to be addressed is why is Atari doing this all of a sudden? But, more importantly, what can we as a retro gaming community do about it? What really irritates me is that in one instance, the atari2600.org one, I feel that Atari has absolutely no right to the domain name on many levels. However, most likely through a URDP it will most likely be granted to them. I can't understand the motivations of Atari. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jferio Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 The "clearing the barn" comment does resonate. It's also quite possible that they're doing it to ensure that their own home page and product listings gets into the "first page" of search results when someone looks for Atari. Taking over and closing down "competing" website addresses would help to accomplish that, albeit at a cost of opinion within the retro community. A retro community which, sadly, is not really what they want as a target demographic if they want to move into social and casual mobile gaming. A quick Google search provides hits, three of them at the top for Atari itself, one for an athlete, one for the Wikipedia article, one for some shopping results, and the five for various Atari retro hobby sites. I can see some executive thinking that it would be neat if they can replace those five hobby site links with shopping results, and snagging "infringing" addresses would accomplish that. If it gets too bad, we can always work on redefining Atari the same way Dan Savage redefined Santorum. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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