Thomas Jentzsch Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 I've been on the phone for 3 nights in a row with Atari legal, last night was actually 2 very long calls working with them on this situation... Thanks a lot for doing that. I hope you succeed. E.g. Andrew Davie seems really frustrated by Atari now and there is a big chance that we will loose him. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 I've been on the phone for 3 nights in a row with Atari legal, last night was actually 2 very long calls working with them on this situation... Thanks a lot for doing that. I hope you succeed. E.g. Andrew Davie seems really frustrated by Atari now and there is a big chance that we will loose him. Thanks from me too. I've got no problem with Atari defending what is actually theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceDice2010 Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 I wouldn't say ignore it...but maybe keep on guard. Atari2600.org just got shutdown and handed over to them. By U.S. law, maintaining copyrights on hardware has to be done regularly. As far as I'm aware, the rights on all of Atari's hardware were either released by Hasbro or reached their maturity. I highly suggest you seek legal advice on this matter and make points on the hardware copyrights. I could understand some Atari software...it's the hardware that is interesting me. Unless they can show proof that they renewed those copyrights, they really have no case that I am aware of. Then again, I'm not a lawyer, but I did have to study copyright practices in a college course recently. If today's Atari is going to be like this, then I agree with another post...no future Atari products no matter how awesome they are will not be allowed in my home. Did he actually hand over atar2600.org? If Andrew has no intention of fighting it via getting a lawyer then he should not just hand it over. Let Atari pay the filing fees for a UDRP. I believe they are around $1400 plus whatever one of their lawyers cost for a few hours work. Atari wanting atari2600.org has nothing to do with copyrights, but is a trademark issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceDice2010 Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 If Andrew wants to sell atari2600.org, I will buy it, fight the UDRP, win, and give it back to him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fibrewire Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 They could have bought the domain name from him, paid him for lost wages, time invested, equipment rental, etc. Its never a free ride. Also, atari2600 existed before infogrammes bought the atari name Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desiv Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 (edited) and that is something acceptable, its their game and that's one time they were in the right. Although I wonder how much of a difference there is there and, for example, PacManPlus and his version (not done yet) of Moon Cresta, where he also admitted to looking at the disassembled code of the original game??? You start walking that chalk line, it's gets really washed out and tough to follow... desiv p.s. And I'm not stating/implying Atari is wrong legally. I think "most" of what we enjoy is probably technically.. at least questionable.. Even the emulators that we enjoy.. Yes, emulators can be legal, but there are some fairly strict "clean room" issues that I think could come into question.. I'm thinking more of a "should" rather than a "legally can" issue.. Edited August 25, 2011 by desiv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+thegoldenband Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 I've been on the phone for 3 nights in a row with Atari legal, last night was actually 2 very long calls working with them on this situation... Thanks a lot for doing that. I hope you succeed. E.g. Andrew Davie seems really frustrated by Atari now and there is a big chance that we will loose him. Thanks from me too. I've got no problem with Atari defending what is actually theirs. Thirded, FWIW. I hope they're able to see that busting the chops of someone like Andrew D. is incredibly stupid, wasteful, and counterproductive. If they don't find some way of backpedaling and making this right, I guarantee I'll never knowingly purchase anything made by the current incarnation of Atari/Infogrames or its subsidiaries, and will actively discourage everyone I know from doing so as well. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faicuai Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Quite a BIZARRE thread / dynamics going on here. We came from the living exhuming the dead to... zombies (now gone bezerk) trying to bury those alive (!?) But it does seem, however, that Atari's recent interest has VERY LITTLE TO DO with this site's activity, resources, products, etc. It rather seems driven for the success of over-the-top content, the rapid/massive advent of iPhone/iPads/Tablets, and everything that today's mobile networks can make happen (what eventually made Apple so incredibly successful, yet again). F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trent Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 and that is something acceptable, its their game and that's one time they were in the right. Atari sent me a similar email (same sender) asking me to remove my Flash version of Adventure. So it's off my site now. Yeah they are pursuing legitimate copyright claims in almost all of these cases, including this one. I completely understand why they want to get rid of unauthorized emulators, sites, and media that use their name. That doesn't mean everything they are doing is smart. The point of Flash Adventure isn't to replace your Atari experience, it is a technology demo to show what Flash can do in a fun way, in a way that is an homage to Adventure. As you say he clearly explained it is a copy. The community was filling a void with these types of projects, a void that Atari chose not to fill or pay attention to for more than a decade. I guess now they want to come and fill the void. Sure it is their right, but they going about it in a pretty lousy way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svenski Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Yeah they are pursuing legitimate copyright claims in almost all of these cases, including this one. I completely understand why they want to get rid of unauthorized emulators, sites, and media that use their name. That doesn't mean everything they are doing is smart. The point of Flash Adventure isn't to replace your Atari experience, it is a technology demo to show what Flash can do in a fun way, in a way that is an homage to Adventure. As you say he clearly explained it is a copy. The community was filling a void with these types of projects, a void that Atari chose not to fill or pay attention to for more than a decade. I guess now they want to come and fill the void. Sure it is their right, but they going about it in a pretty lousy way. This is why Atari really should talk to the community and issue some guidance as to what is acceptable and what isn't going forward. The landscape is changing fast. I personally think the Atari brand is worthy of a lot more than, say, becoming the next Zynga - but that is my opinion and it doesn't detract from Atari's right to protect their IP. The community (apart from some obvious exceptions) have shown we are prepared to call a spade a spade when necessary. I've had loads of emails since I did the article (re atari2600) and it spread like wildfire around the globe. I know that others here have been quietly doing their bit and Curt should be commended for trying to get things resolved. He is in a position where he has a relationship with Atari and hasn't been afraid to risk that by trying to get some clarification and a resolution. There are a lot of people here on AA and beyond that have done the Atari community proud over the last few days. You know who you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Well if atari manages to kill off the homebrew and diy scene.. who are they gonna market to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Well if atari manages to kill off the homebrew and diy scene.. who are they gonna market to? The regular folks who know nothing of the retro scene but think it would be neat to see old "Atari Tapes" on their phone. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jferio Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 The regular folks who know nothing of the retro scene but think it would be neat to see old "Atari Tapes" on their phone. Very much this. One has to remember that we, as retro gamers, are overall a small niche market. Even more so our particular focus of platform. While there will be long-term brand damage among us, and it will be felt through the overlap with modern hard core gaming some of us have, it's not going to be quite enough compared to the overly large market Atari is aiming at, which is casual gaming with the folks that have a hard to impossible time justifying even a new console when they get their gaming fix via FaceSpace. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Jose, I've been on the phone for 3 nights in a row with Atari legal, last night was actually 2 very long calls working with them on this situation, your comment about me eating at the same table - perhaps you thought you were being comical, it was insulting - I reach out all the time on the Atari communities behalf to Atari and I've helped resolved numerous things, I've already chimed in on this thread multiple times already, so I have spoken up... maybe instead of saying stupid things and making comments that sound like shallow accusations you should think a little better next time. Curt Just a normal, simple 'ATARI' word at Google and the 5,6,7and8th place from Brazilian guys: 1st- Atari inc. 2d- Atari Wiki 3rd- Atari wiki 4th- Images of 'atari' 5th,6th,7th and 8th: Atari 2600 Br 9th- 'www.atari.org' 10th- 'www.atarimuseum.com' Next to be banned, probably, would be, or not, Brazilian, AtariOrg... And what's the real relantionship between AtariMuseum at atari, Inc.? Hey, Curt Vendel? Probably no pproblem as you are doing a nice and great Job for free to Atari, Inc. O.k., you are doing a great job for all, but a Museum doesn't be any problem to them ... And that's why I thought that they are not concerned about 8bit, 16bit or any other computers line. They are concerned about 2600 Consoles. Why? Because that's their way of having Profits from things that, in reality aren't from them, but if they bought Atari name it is property of them. They can never get into the computers because they have most of the software from third parties. They aren't interested in, ever release a Flash Black of 8bit computers or any other Atari computer Line... Just because they will never get all the Rights and even they would get them they would need to pay a large of money. Flashback can be alive just with Atari old Arcade games that they have the copyright. When they run out of older Atari arcade/VCS2600 games by the older Atari they simply don't release anymore Flasback. If they have a Treasure in their Hands then they must use it... Today Time's are soo bad... It's a small Market, maybee it seems soo, or probably it isn't. -> Wgungfu is a Moderator on Atari, Inc retro forums -> Curt vendel and AtariMuseum have good relçantionship with atari, Inc., I think... (probably some more here that don't talk also...) Isn't time for you have the 'guts' to talk/ask/explain them... Or are you 'living and eating at the same Table as Atari, inc.'? Come on, say something, answer something,... Or this will turn real bad. (I may send another Letter to them with my Bad english, probably this time I may call them some Names, real Names, that wouldn't need 'Google Translation' to know what they mean ) Yours sincerily Atarian, José Pereira. Desculpa, Pardon. Sorry,... This is so new to everybody that I answer in 'hot'... This is not fair and we all know that 'this is not fair'?... I just want to gave you all our feelings... We can't go against atari, Inc., we can't go against what's it's wrong in this sh... of World... We can try but the battle it's an 'unfair' battle. You've done a great Job and that's why I assign you as my Friend on my Personal Page.. Sorry and hope we can talk more times here, hope 'they' don't 'blow' our 'Pleasure'... Hope that you have the 'POWER' to explain Atari, Inc. who we are... Hope this return to some of the good old Times... Hope you have this Power! Sorry. And if this solve anything, I am counting on you and on your telephones... Sorry from me.... from the deep of my Heart... Sorry! to you. José Pereira. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceDice2010 Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 (edited) I just registered a domain name - boycottatari.com When I get back from a long weekend in the Hamptons I will do something with it. Atari doesn't scare me at all... And I really hope that Andrew doesn't cave in and give Atari atari2600.org. If they want the domain name then let them pay the UDRP filing fees and get it that way. (It will make Atari look much worse if they actually follow through and fight for a domain name rather than just having it handed over to them.) Andrew has a lot going for him in an UDRP dispute, especially since as far as I can tell his domain was never used in "bad faith". If Atari went after atari2600.org what is stopping them from going after atari2600.com. p.s. I know this is a gaming board and many like myself don't share our "day jobs". Without going into too much detail. My company manages web properties. We are developing a fingerprinting solution for online videos. We are also in litigation to protect our intellectual property. On any given day we may send out up to 100 DMCA notices. We have been through the UDRP process many times. I think last year we got maybe 100 domains through the process. I briefly showed this to our attorney and he laughed. In fact he said Andrew should tell Atari to "f*ck themselves". That term to him isn't meant literally however. Attorneys have a way of telling someone to go "f*ck themselves" without actually saying it in so many words... Edited August 26, 2011 by SpaceDice2010 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svenski Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 I just registered a domain name - boycottatari.com When I get back from a long weekend in the Hamptons I will do something with it. Atari doesn't scare me at all... And I really hope that Andrew doesn't cave in and give Atari atari2600.org. If they want the domain name then let them pay the UDRP filing fees and get it that way. (It will make Atari look much worse if they actually follow through and fight for a domain name rather than just having it handed over to them.) Andrew has a lot going for him in an UDRP dispute, especially since as far as I can tell his domain was never used in "bad faith". If Atari went after atari2600.org what is stopping them from going after atari2600.com. p.s. I know this is a gaming board and many like myself don't share our "day jobs". Without going into too much detail. My company manages web properties. We are developing a fingerprinting solution for online videos. We are also in litigation to protect our intellectual property. On any given day we may send out up to 100 DMCA notices. We have been through the UDRP process many times. I think last year we got maybe 100 domains through the process. I briefly showed this to our attorney and he laughed. In fact he said Andrew should tell Atari to "f*ck themselves". That term to him isn't meant literally however. Attorneys have a way of telling someone to go "f*ck themselves" without actually saying it in so many words... I for one appreciate the advice you've been giving here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 (edited) Well if atari manages to kill off the homebrew and diy scene.. who are they gonna market to? Probably we are the 'known ones' Probably they think we are that 'mad scientists'... Probably they think we aren't their Market Traget. And probably they think all of us are that 'NUTS' guys that are doing this litle stuuff... This little stuff of having a a small guy going up and down in a simple screen... just some 'Basic' programming/coding... But it's that old 'Basic programming/coding' that are giving them the Rights to win Money. If there wasn't all that old atari games, if there wasn't we all, probably our sons, friends,... didn't know what was ATARI. Probably if wasn't all this, then that French company didn't bought Atari and change their name and all their Products into the name Atari. What we have here it's a Battle, probably a real WAR between who spent money and most important who kept ATARI alive all this years. And we know why they are nor struggling for ATARI name!.... If there wasn't 'NUTS' like we all are they never even release Flashback Macines... and they never be, like they are now, trying to steall our pleasure... Curt, if you can't, and if, please can lost some more 'coins' please Translate this into a bettter English. I am talking with the deep of my Heart and I think we can give ATARI more. Just show them, please... to all. José Pereira. Edited August 26, 2011 by José Pereira Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaperman Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 (edited) Atari sent me a similar email (same sender) asking me to remove my Flash version of Adventure. So it's off my site now. Which is understandable. Curt and myself have been mentioning that for a while now, doing things like creating clones of other people's IP, titling off their IP, etc. is going to get this kind of response. You went even further, going so far as to even state "This is an EXACT clone of the Atari 2600 game "Adventure" from 1978, now done in Flash. It is based off an annotated disassembly of the original game." Not only stating you produced an exact copy of their protected IP, but used their copyrighted source code to do it (disassembly or not, the code is still copyrighted). Plus you even titled it "Atari 2600 Adventure". You might as well have opened a fake Apple store in Cupertino if you were going to so blatantly violate IP protections.[/size][/font] It's more reasonable than a lot of what else I'm seeing here, and I agree with taking it down at this request with little fuss. Though I do still feel that picking on the little guy probably wasn't the smoothest of all possible moves, and from a historical perspective, it's also a bit odd that they made this request after years of letting similar happen. Something's changed policy-wise in atari. They've still got a ways to go before their jerk-level will let them compete with an EA or Sony, but for percentage of total fanbase effected, this recent legal rampage shows them right on track. I guess we can expect to see "quest: a retro adventure in flash" in the near future. Edited August 26, 2011 by Reaperman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desiv Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Just remember Curt.. The future of all Atari fans is resting on your shoulders... Without you, there will be no more Atari scene... ... ... Have a great weekend.. desiv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trent Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Starting to feel like a dead horse is being beaten, but I would not discount the role that Atari enthusiasts have played in maintaining the brand all these years. It is a combination of all these "grey area" activities that has help keep the brand alive. Yes this is a niche group, but it has made Atari the Pabst Blue Ribbon of retro systems. Atari may be well positioned to capitalize on it here and now, but it would be short sighted to take down this valuable assett in the process. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Starting to feel like a dead horse is being beaten, but I would not discount the role that Atari enthusiasts have played in maintaining the brand all these years. It is a combination of all these "grey area" activities that has help keep the brand alive. Yes this is a niche group, but it has made Atari the Pabst Blue Ribbon of retro systems. Atari may be well positioned to capitalize on it here and now, but it would be short sighted to take down this valuable assett in the process. Something that others don't have... Probably imagine what if a kind of Commodore VCS exists what Commodore would do and care for all their loyal guys Are we on the 'Dark side' of Retro computers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynxpro Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Yeah they are pursuing legitimate copyright claims in almost all of these cases, including this one. I completely understand why they want to get rid of unauthorized emulators, sites, and media that use their name. So, can we assume they'll go after the bands named the Atari Teenage Riot and The Atari's? And what about Crystal Castles? ATR has been around since...what...1996? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynxpro Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Looks like AtariProtos is sitting at 139. Right behind a Kotaku article about Chuck E Cheese and above the Yolo Atari Club. Sigh. I remember the YAC [Yolo Atari Club] guys! If I recall, their base of operations was UC Davis [a few years before I attended]. They wanted their own users group closer to home than what SST/STAR [sacramento ST Users Group, later known as Sacramento's Total Atari Resource, and originally made up of former members of ACCESS - Atari Computer Club Encompassing Suburban Sacramento] provided but they also attended our meetings. They were really hot for the world wide web when it debuted and I recall them being fans of STik and CAB back then. They must've moved away from the area because I've never seen any of them at the last 3 annual Davis Atari Parties... I haven't seen anybody from ACCESS/SST/STAR there either - other than myself - for that matter. Sorry, just had to give a shout out to the former Atari scene from this part of NorCal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 So, can we assume they'll go after the bands named the Atari Teenage Riot and The Atari's? I wish they would. I'm tired of having to skip over them in my ebay searches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+wood_jl Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 The regular folks who know nothing of the retro scene but think it would be neat to see old "Atari Tapes" on their phone. Very much this. One has to remember that we, as retro gamers, are overall a small niche market. Even more so our particular focus of platform. While there will be long-term brand damage among us, and it will be felt through the overlap with modern hard core gaming some of us have, it's not going to be quite enough compared to the overly large market Atari is aiming at, which is casual gaming with the folks that have a hard to impossible time justifying even a new console when they get their gaming fix via FaceSpace. Yeah, but once we're all dead (the retro community), nobody's going to give a shit about old Atari games. Seriously. The kids only want what's new, and new entertainment debuts at a rate that appears somewhat exponential in growth. Shitting on your retro-fanbase - when all you have to market are retreads (crappy versions, no less) of your antiquated games since you obviously can NOT produce anything original that people will demand - is inane and moronic. These people (the company in question, masquerading as the old company we love) have managed to turn their most ardent fans - who secretly wished for a "comeback" of the brand and name - to not-so-secretly wishing for a painful DEATH to that name. Nice going. Goes well with a shitty rehash of "Star Raiders." I've been away for several days, but to those who were (earlier in the thread) calling for "hush" on this issue: I think it's a damn good thing this did not happen. This would have played right into what "the company" wanted. AtariAge itself HAS NOT BEEN COMPLICIT IN ANYTHING and the very suggestion that they are/were is completely ludicrous. Since when is hosting discussion a crime? The alleged "apology letters" may very well be a direct result of the fact that THIS WAS DISCUSSED and Slashdotted. A HUGE THANK-YOU TO SVENSKI FOR SLASHDOTTING THIS. Bravo - you are a true fan! J 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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