What is the quintessential Atari game?

[+Random Terrain]

I 100% DISagree.

 

When I got the game, I constantly played it for over a month. If you really want to master the game, Pitfall! requires a lot more than any other contemporary game I can think of. Mapping the 255 screens alone was a big task, finding the optimal path another one (often a path looks better, but then the timing e.g. of a vine 10 screens ahead doesn't fit). Improving the jumps etc. was crucial too. After I found a new controller trick, I once even was able to change the optimal path which allowed my to save a lot of seconds in my perfect game.

 

So for me the replay value was extremely high! Maybe for you it was low, but that's just because of your personal preference.

Most video game designers have mangled the concept of play. Below are some of my definitions.

 

 

Die and Remember Games

 

Die repeatedly until you learn a specific sequence of 'dance steps' that you must perform perfectly before you can continue. It has very little to do with play. It's mostly tedium and torture with small amounts of fun thrown in. A Die and Remember Game is usually a Static Action Puzzle Toilet Paper Game.

 

 

 

Static Action Puzzle Games

 

Enemies or obstacles start in the same positions every time and usually perform a prearranged set of moves that never seem to change when the game is replayed. A Static Action Puzzle Game is usually a Die and Remember Toilet Paper Game. There is no replay value. You solve the 'puzzle' or memorize all of the 'dance steps' and your work is done. And that's exactly what it is, work, not play.

 

 

 

Toilet Paper Games

 

Single use. Wipe and flush. Zero replay value. A Toilet Paper Game is usually a Die and Remember Static Action Puzzle Game.

 

 

Memorizing dance steps is not playing. And it's not just people with OCD tendencies that get pleasure from the closure they get from 'beating' a Die and Remember Static Action Puzzle Game. Take a look at the following bit of text from Avoid the Aging Trap by Muriel Oberleder:

 

Stimulation and Closure: Key to Learning

 

Exactly how and why we learn is a mystery, but it is certain that we cannot learn without stimulation. And once stimulated, we cannot relax until we have learned. When people are interrupted at a learning task, studies show, they will go back to it again and again. If they are not allowed to complete it, anxiety and irritability will mount, interfering with other future learning.

 

We need a feeling of completion, or 'closure,' in order to learn. The reward of satisfaction when a task is completed is what motivates and stimulates us.

 

 

Game designers use that kind of information to hook us like they're drug dealers. We get used to the closure pleasure that these games give us, but unless a person is a very good player and can beat a game in a few tries, he's probably going to feel abused, anxious, or irritated even after finally beating it. A game should not make you feel like throwing a controller or punching a wall or arguing with your parents or stabbing your wife or beating your kids. (Remember the NES years when losing meant replaying 20 levels all over again for the 50th time?)

 

 

 

Visit the following pages for more information:

 

www.randomterrain.com/atari-2600-memories-game-design-guidelines.html#replayability

 

www.randomterrain.com/atari-2600-memories-game-design-guidelines.html#resist_frustration

 

www.randomterrain.com/game-design-randomness-and-replayability.html

 

www.randomterrain.com/game-design-play-vs-competition.html

 

www.randomterrain.com/game-design-good-games-not-waste-of-time.html

 

 

 

 

 

BTW: How about River Raid? No replay value here too?

After reading what I posted above and visiting the links, I bet you can answer that question yourself.

Edited August 17, 2011 by Random Terrain

[Thomas Jentzsch]

After reading what I posted above and visiting the links, I bet you can answer that question yourself.

Well, I suppose you won't like Boulder Dash then too.

 

BTW: A game which people are enjoying to play for more than 25 years.

[+Random Terrain]

BTW: A game which people are enjoying to play for more than 25 years.

You can enjoy rubbing the front of your pants with sandpaper. That doesn't mean it's good for you or your pants.

 

 

 

Duration is not a test of truth or falsehood.

~Anne Morrow Lindbergh

[Thomas Jentzsch]

BTW: A game which people are enjoying to play for more than 25 years.

You can enjoy rubbing the front of your pants with sandpaper. That doesn't mean it's good for you or your pants.

 

 

 

Duration is not a test of truth or falsehood.

~Anne Morrow Lindbergh

Quoting other peoples opinions doesn't make your personal opinion not any more valid at all. It is true for you, but you should stop insisting that it is objective.

[AtariLeaf]

I gotta go with Space Invaders and part of my reasoning is that Pitfall is a 3rd party game and for my money, the quintessential game should be a 1st party game and I don't think any 1st party game comes close to the impact Space Invaders had on the VCS's sales and popularity.

[AtariLeaf]

 

BTW: How about River Raid? No replay value here too?

 

Actually no, I hate that all the objects are in the same spot everytime. I used to love River Raid but there was a while I was playing it so much that it actually got boring because I knew exactly what was going to happen next.

[+Random Terrain]

Quoting other peoples opinions doesn't make your personal opinion not any more valid at all.

You're acting like all I did was post a quote. If you don't like quotes, ignore it and read what I said:

 

You can enjoy rubbing the front of your pants with sandpaper. That doesn't mean it's good for you or your pants.

 

 

And about quotes, when I find a quote I like, I add it to the mix. I had a lot of my own thoughts about game design long before I came across any quotes. The quotes can help me bring my own thoughts more into focus, but they also show that there are others who have similar thoughts (for people who need to see that).

 

 

 

 

. . . but you should stop insisting that it is objective.

When and where did I insist that it is objective?

 

It's my opinion that most humans aren't aware enough yet to understand that a lot of the traditional ideas that video game designers have and tricks they use are bad for us. It might take 5, 10, 50 or 100 years or more, but I hope they'll eventually wake up.

Edited August 17, 2011 by Random Terrain

[Thomas Jentzsch]

. . . but you should stop insisting that it is objective.

When and where did I insist that it is objective?

 

It's my opinion that most humans aren't aware enough yet to understand that a lot of the traditional ideas that video game designers have and tricks they use are bad for us. It might take 5, 10, 50 or 100 years or more, but I hope they'll eventually wake up.

bad for you = "bad for us", or what do you mean? Should I feel brainwashed now, because I disagree?

[Amstari]

For me the quintessential Atari game will always be Asteroids.

 

Followed very closely by Space Invaders.

[+Random Terrain]

bad for you = "bad for us", or what do you mean? Should I feel brainwashed now, because I disagree?

Based on your replies, it seems you haven't bothered to actually read my posts or visit the links, so the only thing you could disagree with is your own fantasy about what you think I said.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

bad for you = "bad for us", or what do you mean? Should I feel brainwashed now, because I disagree?

Based on your replies, it seems you haven't bothered to actually read my posts or visit the links, so the only thing you could disagree with is your own fantasy about what you think I said.

I have and I heavily disagree with the broad overall conclusion.

 

Yes, there are games which have zero replay value. And yes, this often comes from missing random elements. And yes there are frustrating games, and yes, the programmers did that intentionally to make the game look bigger than it is. Etc. pp.

 

But no, this doesn't mean that any game which has no randomness and/or very challenging elements etc. is automatically a bad game. People are different, players are different. Some prefer scripted games, some not. Some want a game to be challenging, some want to play without getting stuck anywhere. And most are somewhere in between.

 

Games should suit the preferences of the players. And not follow an ideology about how a good game has to look like and what is forbidden to do. Games must not be PC and we don't need any proselytizing, especially in gaming!

[SlowCoder]

1st, Space Invaders. 2nd, Pac-Man.

[NE146]

Replayability aside, the game that when you see it "represents" the VCS.. I guess I gotta agree with Space Invaders and VCS Pacman. Combat is there.. but slightly behind those 2.

[SlowCoder]

Damnit, NE146 ... Every time I see one of your posts, I have to scroll past so I won't get in trouble at work. That damn avatar.

 

The arguments between RT and TJ are both valid, in my opinion. One of you is presenting definitiions, and the other is presenting personalities that work for the definitions. They have both given me pause for thought. My response to the whole argument is this: As long as I enjoy a game, I will play it. Yes, River Raid falls into "Static Action Puzzle Games" by RT definition. But until I have successfully completed the game, I will find it fun (unless I just get too frustrated). Once I have completed it, I will move on to others, and may play it again at a much later date, when I have pretty much forgotten the moves.

[BigErn]

Gotta be Yars' Revenge. Classically cockamamie Atari-story about hyper-intelligent space flies versus aliens with names that sound like asthma medication, all to describe four game objects on a black screen. Also, the Yar sprite appears in other Atari games, has no arcade lineage, and could get as addictive as pure Colombian cocaine when you're on a roll.

 

Either that or the Combat pack-in.

 

 

That's a great point about Yars' Revenge and how it wasn't an arcade game first.

[Zedex]

I think I would say that Yar's Revenge is the quintessential Atari game. It came out in 1981, which was when Atari was at it's peak, and it has such classic gameplay. I personally would say it's my favorite Atari game.

[Cynicaster]

I'll have to hop on the bandwagon and go for either Space Invaders or Pac-Man. Mostly because they are the very first videogames I ever played in my life, on the VCS or otherwise.

 

 

That's a great point about Yars' Revenge and how it wasn't an arcade game first.

 

Technically, no it wasn't. But I believe it's a stretch to say it has no arcade lineage.

[Syntaxerror999]

What... no love for Astroids?

[+5-11under]

If allowed to pick more than one, I'd add Ms. Pac-Man to the list.

[Rex Dart]

Swordquest: Earthworld

 

Think about it, won't you?

[jrok]

I'll have to hop on the bandwagon and go for either Space Invaders or Pac-Man. Mostly because they are the very first videogames I ever played in my life, on the VCS or otherwise.

 

 

That's a great point about Yars' Revenge and how it wasn't an arcade game first.

 

Technically, no it wasn't. But I believe it's a stretch to say it has no arcade lineage.

 

Aw, come on. I know that it "started" as a Star Castle port, but it mutated into it's own thing long before it hit the shelves. Differences between Yars' Revenge and original SC include:

• Energy barrier.
  
• Zorlon cannon
  
• Does not cost $32,000
  

[+thegoldenband]

My thoughts on the replayability of Pitfall:

 

I like jazz, and I like classical music.

[BassGuitari]

It's tough to pin down a quintessential game for a system whose games span distinctive "eras" even among themselves. Conveniently, label type seems to be a good way of delineating different eras of Atari games: the primitive, blocky text-label games of the late '70s, the "golden era" arcade ports and original picture- and silver-label games of the early/mid '80s, and the ambitious, graphically advanced red-label games of the late '80s. You'd almost have to pick one from each. I'm inclined to pick several from each, as well as several third-party games, since one thing I think is "quintessential" about Atari VCS games is the sheer variety of cartridges.

 

But if I had to choose one, I'd say the definitive Atari VCS game is Space Invaders. It's the first game people think of when they hear the word "Atari."

 

Combat and Air-Sea Battle also seem to sum up the blocky, simple, engagingly competitive gameplay that the Atari 2600 is widely synonymous with. (Again, by non-classic gamers who probably don't know about Solaris and Jr. Pac-Man.)

 

[Rex Dart]

But if I had to choose one, I'd say the definitive Atari VCS game is Space Invaders. It's the first game people think of when they hear the word "Atari."

 

They think of PONG, like it or not

[+5-11under]

But if I had to choose one, I'd say the definitive Atari VCS game is Space Invaders. It's the first game people think of when they hear the word "Atari."

 

They think of PONG, like it or not

Or NES.