Gameboy Player kind of sucks.

[Reaperman]

Gameboy Player sucks. It just does. There, I've said it and feel better.

 

It's the best thing Gamecube ever did, but it just doesn't feel right. Even though I *KNOW* there is real GBA hardware in the base unit, and it doesn't use software emulation, it suffers from the same problems. There's too much overhead between my controller inputs and updates on the screen. Games that require twitch reactions are extremely difficult to play. I've noticed it worst on Blast Arena Advance, Racing Gears Advance, and V-Rally 3.

 

At first I thought it was my d-pads, since gamecube never seems to have good ones on its controllers. I've tried wireless (wavebird and thrustmaster), stock wired, and finally ordered myself a GBA tether cable to use a real GBA. The tether cable helped the d-pad issue, however it's still sluggish. My ps2 controller adapters do not work with Gameboy Player, nor do many of my 3rd party controllers.

 

When I can consistently score 60-100% higher the second I disconnect the GBA from the gamecube and play on it, there's something wrong. Am I crazy? Has anybody else noticed that gba player sucks? Any ideas as to why? Slow input bus? Extra image processing inside the gamecube? I regularly play 'the classics' on this TV, but later on I'll try it on a CRT and see if that reduces the issue. Gameboy Player has been making me look like a pretty poor gamer for a while, and I think that I've tried just about everything to fix it.

Edited September 10, 2011 by Reaperman

[TheGameCollector]

Gameboy Player sucks. It just does. There, I've said it and feel better.

 

It's the best thing Gamecube ever did, but it just doesn't feel right. Even though I *KNOW* there is real GBA hardware in the base unit, and it doesn't use software emulation, it suffers from the same problems. There's too much overhead between my controller inputs and updates on the screen. Games that require twitch reactions are extremely difficult to play. I've noticed it worst on Blast Arena Advance, Racing Gears Advance, and V-Rally 3.

 

At first I thought it was my d-pads, since gamecube never seems to have good ones on its controllers. I've tried wireless (wavebird and thrustmaster), stock wired, and finally ordered myself a GBA tether cable to use a real GBA. The tether cable helped the d-pad issue, however it's still sluggish. My ps2 controller adapters do not work with Gameboy Player, nor do many of my 3rd party controllers.

 

When I can consistently score 60-100% higher the second I disconnect the GBA from the gamecube and play on it, there's something wrong. Am I crazy? Has anybody else noticed that gba player sucks? Any ideas as to why? Slow input bus? Extra image processing inside the gamecube? I regularly play 'the classics' on this TV, but later on I'll try it on a CRT and see if that reduces the issue. Gameboy Player has been making me look like a pretty poor gamer for a while, and I think that I've tried just about everything to fix it.

 

Input lag is specific to each system. For example, I can play NES just fine on my HDTV, but if I try to run an NES emulator from a modded Xbox, the input lag is just horrible while the sane emulator works fine on a CRT.

[Rex Dart]

I think you're loony. I haven't had any problems with a Gameboy Player and a Hori GC digital pad. No input lag, nothing wrong at all. Honestly, I think there's a bit of placebo effect going on with people who complain about input lag in emulators.

[PsychoKittyNet]

Never had a problem myself, but the last time I used one it was on a CRT, no idea how it would effect on a HDTV.

[Chuck D. Head]

I have played the hell out of the GB player and never noticed any problems; I don't have any of the games you mentioned, do any others come to mind? Never had any problem with the action or response of the d-pad on Wavebird or standard controller, either.

[Pixelboy]

Never had any problems either, input lag or otherwise (I also used a Hori controller). The only thing I really missed in the Game Boy Player is the ability to input passcodes that changed the colors, a feature that was incredibly fun to use in the Super Game Boy on the Super-NES.

[Reaperman]

I just took the dvd burner out of the loop and gave myself 6 games of Blast Arena Advance (since they're short games, and output a score). Same settings on each, background distractions were off.

 

I started with the GBA SP (v2)

105

98

115

 

then, warmed up, I jumped on the cube, using the GBA as its controller

64

20 (yes 20)

64

 

On the cube, I kept overshooting, and had to take up to 3 passes or loops on targets semi-regularly. It meant that I couldn't snatch up as many points early on when it was easier to do. It didn't feel like I could get as close to the projectiles and 'dance around them' the same way either. I was playing in a more conservative way after I missed a bunch of targets.

 

maybe it's psychological, but that's still a helluva gap.

 

Screen size maybe? I don't have trouble focusing on most of the screen at once, but it's probably easier to see the whole thing when it's 3"--I'd struggle to believe that screen size is doing it.

 

I have a solid hour of dvd footage where I don't break 80 points on the cube, but I can sit down and instantly get over 100 on the gba on the first try.

[Vitiman Z]

Yeah, get a Hori pad, man.

 

 

I have one (mostly due to it's similarities with the SNES's controller) and they are awesome. Really convenient for 2D games and what it was presumably intended for, the Gameboy Player. Also, like Rex said, it's mostly a placebo effect that that people experience thanks to internet complainers who, in turn, get the idea from the very people under the placebo effect. I've honestly never experienced lag at all on my GBP, not even with a standard Gamecube controller, or a Wavebird. I did once with a 3rd Party MadCatz controller, but to be fair, I got that with every game I used that on.

[ApolloBoy]

I have a GB Player too and there is definitely control lag. A fairly small amount of lag, but it's still fairly noticeable nonetheless, and this is with a standard GameCube controller and a CRT.

[chrisbid]

youre right, there is lag.

[Atariboy]

I've never noticed any input lag. I've spent lots of time with V-Rally 3 (Always amazes me what they accomplished with that game) and Racing Gears Advance on my backlit SP and on my Game Boy Player, and never noticed anything being off with my control when playing on my tv.

[Reaperman]

Even drunk, I still managed a 90, 2:47 on GBA with blast arena. Not really close to my best, but my hands still know the way. Think I'm too tired for a GBP comparo--but 90 is still higher than I've ever scored on 'cube.

Edited September 11, 2011 by Reaperman

[+wood_jl]

Perhaps I'm not as sensitive to the lag as others, but if there is a lag, it must be one of the least-offensive lags in this business. Play an old Atari console on a modern SONY LCD TV, and you'll see a lag that is worth complaining about.

[+thegoldenband]

This is disappointing, since I've been wanting to get a Game Boy Player.

 

Question for the folks who are saying there's lag: do you find that there's also lag in the Super Game Boy for SNES?

 

Also, wouldn't it be straightforward to make a test program for this sort of thing? Hit a button, hear an immediate beep and/or make the screen flash. Compare on handheld vs. GBP. You could record the audio and see the difference easily in the waveform -- put the microphone next to the button, and you'll see a "click" followed by the beep after X milliseconds, and the difference in X between GB/GBA and GBP is your lag. Video would probably require a high-speed camera, or at least something that could record at more than 60fps.

 

I did a similar test when I brought my Nomad to my girlfriend's parents' house, since the Nomad can drive external AV at the same time as its own display and speaker. I plugged it into their flatscreen and played a game of Columns. The audio response from the TV was lagged by 50-100ms, and I assume the video was as well. (Just to be clear, the Nomad AV out has zero lag when it's driving a CRT, so the lag issue was caused by the flatscreen's scaling/processing.)

Edited September 11, 2011 by thegoldenband

[Hatta]

I just took the dvd burner out of the loop and gave myself 6 games of Blast Arena Advance (since they're short games, and output a score). Same settings on each, background distractions were off.

 

I started with the GBA SP (v2)

105

98

115

 

then, warmed up, I jumped on the cube, using the GBA as its controller

64

20 (yes 20)

64

 

On the cube, I kept overshooting, and had to take up to 3 passes or loops on targets semi-regularly. It meant that I couldn't snatch up as many points early on when it was easier to do. It didn't feel like I could get as close to the projectiles and 'dance around them' the same way either. I was playing in a more conservative way after I missed a bunch of targets.

 

maybe it's psychological, but that's still a helluva gap.

 

Great experimental design here. I'd suggest one additional control. Repeat the test with a gamecube controller. It may be that the lag is due to the GC-GBA link cable. If the GBA has to receive the button press, process it, and then send it over the cable to the GBP you might get more lag. Take the GBA out and use something directly wired to the gamecube and you might see the effect disappear.

 

Three observations is enough to do a t-test, which gives us a p-value of .0215. Interpret that as meaning that there is a 2.15% chance that the differences you observed are due to chance. So that's a pretty significant result. But, like you say, it still could be psychological. That's going to be a hard factor to control for, you can hardly do a blind test on a display.

 

I think the only way to really settle it is with a high speed camera hooked to a computer.

[Reaperman]

This is disappointing, since I've been wanting to get a Game Boy Player.

 

Question for the folks who are saying there's lag: do you find that there's also lag in the Super Game Boy for SNES?

Gameboy player is still a pretty good means of displaying gameboy on a TV. Image and sound are right on, and it's dirt cheap.

 

I haven's specifically noticed lag on super gameboy, but I've never really looked at a game on it that would showcase the issue. Per wikipedia, super gameboy is known to run games too quickly. From what I've read, super gameboy 2 corrects this, but is considerably more expensive.

 

It seems that there are already some button test programs for GBA, I think I'll have to try some of these out. I'll bet one of my mp3 players has a mic on it. I don't run my audio through the tv at all, so that should eliminate any delay a tv might throw in to sync with the delayed video.

Edited September 11, 2011 by Reaperman

[Pixelboy]

I haven's specifically noticed lag on super gameboy, but I've never really looked at a game on it that would showcase the issue. Per wikipedia, super gameboy is known to run games too quickly.

How weird... I distinctly remember Mega Man V playing slightly slower on the SGB than on my Game Boy.

[Seob]

Could this lag perhaps be related to the video output system the gamecube is using? Since with the gba you don't have to worry about any tv system(NTSC,PAL), since it's all integrated graphics and display. Ntsc plays 60fps and pal plays 50fps. So it could be that a gba player that uses a ntsc gamecube is affected with more lag then the a gba player connected to a gamecube using pal. Since generally pal games play slower then ntsc games due to the screen refresh rates.

I have a pal system and i don't seem to have any problems with input lag.

Edited September 11, 2011 by Seob

[NinjaWarrior]

No it dosen't...

[Austin]

Never noticed any lag in the GB Player, personally. If there is any lag, it's not noticeable enough to make a difference for me.

 

If you want an alternative, I may recommend looking into getting a TV adapter for the original Game Boy Advance.

[+wood_jl]

This is disappointing, since I've been wanting to get a Game Boy Player.

 

Go ahead and get one. The title to this thread TOTALLY OVERBLOWS THIS OUT OF PROPORTION. I've had one for years and use it frequently, and I've never noticed any lag. I'm not saying there 100% absolutely-beyond-all-metaphysical-certitude isn't a lag - maybe there is. I'm saying I've never noticed it, so IF there is one, it's hardly something you'd notice, and I **DO** notice the lag when I play a classic system on a modern LCD TV, so it's not like I fail to notice significant lags. The title of this thread would lead you to falsely-believe that the Gameboy Player sucks (that is the title, eh?) and in fact it does NOT suck, it DOES ROCK, I love it, and (as someone else pointed out) it is DIRT CHEAP. Just make sure you DO get the startup disc, and make sure that disc is not scratched to hell while you're at it.

[nathanallan]

No lag on mine, either. Yes, the Hori pad looks awesome, I want one but settled for a Pelican branded one, the Horis are hard to get or expensive whenever I looked for one. Pelican's is okay so far.

 

I love the BBP I have here, it makes the system shine.

[Reaperman]

This is disappointing, since I've been wanting to get a Game Boy Player.

 

Go ahead and get one. The title to this thread TOTALLY OVERBLOWS THIS OUT OF PROPORTION.

It's true, anybody considering not getting a Gameboy Player should certainly just go ahead--they cost as much as a cheeseburger, and is the best way that I know of to get a good gameboy image on the screen for recording. (the visteon dvd/gba player is about the only flavor of tv-out I haven't tried, and it's $$$)

 

Dollar for dollar, GBP is the way to go, but I still argue that it's not perfect. At least it doesn't feel that way to me. I don't think I have the tech to measure a video delay, and I haven't had enough time to try and measure a delay via audio, which is a better idea really, but there are a few ways that I can think of where I could be experiencing extra lag.

 

• The link cable or wireless adapters--wired should get rid of this, but one could argue that the quality of d-pad has a greater effect on my score than any possible lag. I don't have one of those pretty Hori pads (yet).
  
• My tv's built-in delay--normally small, but certainly there, and is probably adding to what I see.
  
• video processing setting inside the gbp--I think I'm running 'sharp' which sounds like 'unsmoothed'/unfiltered, but I could be wrong, and I am scaling to full screen, and should give it a shot without
  

 

The gba screen refreshes very close to 60hz, so I don't think it's a refresh difference.

Edited September 12, 2011 by Reaperman

[Asaki]

I regularly play 'the classics' on this TV, but later on I'll try it on a CRT and see if that reduces the issue.

 

Yes, try it on a CRT. Unless you've got your Cube hooked up via the rare and expensive component cables, input lag issues with composite video on HDTVs is quite common.

[Reaperman]

I regularly play 'the classics' on this TV, but later on I'll try it on a CRT and see if that reduces the issue.

 

Yes, try it on a CRT. Unless you've got your Cube hooked up via the rare and expensive component cables, input lag issues with composite video on HDTVs is quite common.

I do need to get ahold of those component cables still, but wouldn't have guessed that they reduce lag. I don't doubt, but wouldn't have thought since it's using some external tech in the cable itself. Does gameboy player offer me a progressive option with that cable? The refresh of a gameboy is ~60hz, but I'd imagine that's progressive. It has the potential to make a difference.

 

I'm currently using s-video, which almost certainly has the same lag as composite. My CRT is in another room, and is tiny, so my laziness has prevented me from trying it already.

 

edit: I also notice that the games I mention require a button to be held pretty much all of the time. 2 are racing games, with accelerator/brake buttons, and in blast arena I generally hold the 'slow down' button at all times. Could this be adding extra strain on data flowing down the link cable? At first, I thought the link cable would eliminate a lot of variables, but really only some of 'mechanical' ones.

Edited September 12, 2011 by Reaperman